Allergies And/or Stomach Upsets And/or Foul Breath And Prescribed Trea

[Erny]

I own working Kelpies...so none of the above

Let me take that back in case I curse myself

Will be interested in the outcome though!

.... Glad you "took it back" Kelpie-i. I don't think I appreciated the difficulty associated with skin/allergy issues and the amount of work (and worry) involved in them, as much as I do now. Experience - what a grand teacher she is.

Although it would be good if none of us found we had to learn by her.

And I hope that your dogs live long and itchy free .

Edited April 7, 2010 by Erny

[Kavik]

With Diesel I chose the cortisone and antibiotic option that needs to be done seasonally/when it flares up. I also use Malaseb so picked the shampoo option with cortisone/antibiotics as well.

Skin conditions, especially ongoing ones, are VERY frustrating I wish I could go to the vet, he could give Diesel some pills or an injection and it would be fixed! So I certainly understand what those owners are like - just give me something to fix it! If the dermatologist and desensitising was guaranteed to work I would do it, but after the amount of money we have spent on this dog (and I can't even compete with him which was why I got him), I can't justify spending that amount of money when the outcome may be the same. Nothing seems to work for very long, he will even scratch and chew on cortisone after a little while, tried antihistimines too with limited success and then he was scratching again.

At the moment he is actuallly not too bad (cross fingers!). Not on any medication, not too miserable or scratching/chewing overlyl much, some hair seems to have grown back over a small part of the section of his flank he chews. I am only washing in Malaseb once a month now (he gets Aloveen conditioner once a week though or he really stinks!).

[Kelpie-i]

Apologies Erny, didn't mean it to be offensive ..was just being silly . I can only imagine what you must be going through dealing with Mandela's condition. I suppose I am very lucky that none of my dogs has suffered with it so far.

[Erny]

Would it be better, if you had an allergic dog and wasnt 100% sure what the cause was , to try and find out through a vet what the allergy is before consulting a homeopath?

I'm not sure if that question was directed to me or to Stormie, Masons Mom. Or perhaps both of us.

I think the answer would be that this "depends".

For example, it might prove to be a once or twice off thing. If that were the case, I don't think I'd want to put my dog through all the allergy testing regime that would be a part of the dermatologist visit. There is, of course, the money thing as well. Not everyone could afford it. I'm not even sure of the success rate in the field of dog dermatology.

[Erny]

Apologies Erny, didn't mean it to be offensive ..was just being silly . I can only imagine what you must be going through dealing with Mandela's condition. I suppose I am very lucky that none of my dogs has suffered with it so far.

No! No! I wasn't offended! Not in the least! I REALLY do hope your dogs live long and unitchy!! And I'm REALLY pleased (see? double-pleased, no less ) that your kelpies have the sort of constitution that doesn't lend themselves to stuff that makes them itch.

Oh dear ..... I think I need to ring you. There must have been tone in my post to you that wasn't by design .

Erny

ETA: I knew you were being silly. You duffa.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Erny

[Dogsfevr]

Erny i think you made your point very clearly with "just in case".

We see many a dog who in all reality have been prescribed the just in case & i think its very obvious that just in case means exactly that compared to a necessity.

For example we get many dogs come in with pred to stop itches,many (not all) off these same dogs come in with treats that are & would not be something an issue dog should be getting.

We find when you ask some of these people what options they have tried its hil & the vet hasnt even asked about the diet or similiar but prescribed meds.

I do believe there handed out to easily without a second thought but a some vets.

Meds have there place & should be used especially if its in the dogs best case BUT there not always the answer .

But flame me now I do believe for a small grp of owners who dont want to put themselves out or change diets or the likes its a simple quick fix for them when the dogs issues could be resovled.

We have had a number of clients board there dogs for 4/6 weeks on a trial to see how they did without there meds(vets approval) & all had no issues,some with the seasonal itch would also board as they found it cheaper than vet bills.

BUT you do have dogs where there is no choice & quality is of the upmost importance

[OSoSwift]

Our Stafford has had season allergies as well as some food allergies that strated at around 14 months. We have had him allergy tested, tried the hyposensitisation injections and removing some things from the environment that cause him a problem.

It go to a point where he now has a spinal problem where he requires life long every second day Pred. His skin and ears are the best they have ever been and to be honest I wonder if persisting with all the "other" treatments were in his best interests. We battled with many washes, natural rememdies, antihistamines, injections etc. Yes they reduced his itching, but it still drove him a bit nutty. Over spring/summer he would rip himself to pieces and he HAD to be on Pred.

If I had of given him Pred on a more regular basis (and it would have been on a much lower dose than he is on now) I think he would have had better quality of life. He will be 13 in June.

[stormie]

Would it be better, if you had an allergic dog and wasnt 100% sure what the cause was , to try and find out through a vet what the allergy is before consulting a homeopath?

I'm not sure if that question was directed to me or to Stormie, Masons Mom. Or perhaps both of us.

Neither...

But Masons Mum - yep, that's how I personally think things should happen. Vets can do the basics (so long as its done thoroughly) like making sure things like flea allergy, scabies mites etc are completely ruled out and also putting the dog on a strict elimination diet to cover that aspect too. Once that's done, you're free to allergy test which can be done a few ways these days. Intra Dermal tests are the preferred, however you need a 12wk period of *drug free* for accurate results, which for dogs like Orbit, just isn't possible. We did 2 different blood tests - very simple and pain free and both tests gave us similar answers.

It was a damn long process, but atleast I know what Orbits main triggers are. For example, I know that chicken and fish is completely out of the question. I also know that pollens are a big problem so I have methods to help there. Cats are another thing on his list, so I know to be prepared when we go to visit my mum because she has 2 cats and he flares up bad there.

I think the same thing goes with stomach upsets too. These days, there are simple blood tests for EPI, or biopsy's can be done to diagnose Inflammatory Bowel Syndrome.

I can't give exact figures off the top of my head re Dermatologist success rates, but we have had a number of clients who had referrals, who got marked improvements from their treatment without even needing to resort to allergy testing. They're specialists for a reason and know everything there is to know about animal skin. We have a cat whose allergies have been completely cured with immunotherapy, so they are out there!!

[Mas1981]

Would it be better, if you had an allergic dog and wasnt 100% sure what the cause was , to try and find out through a vet what the allergy is before consulting a homeopath?

I'm not sure if that question was directed to me or to Stormie, Masons Mom. Or perhaps both of us.

Neither...

But Masons Mum - yep, that's how I personally think things should happen. Vets can do the basics (so long as its done thoroughly) like making sure things like flea allergy, scabies mites etc are completely ruled out and also putting the dog on a strict elimination diet to cover that aspect too. Once that's done, you're free to allergy test which can be done a few ways these days. Intra Dermal tests are the preferred, however you need a 12wk period of *drug free* for accurate results, which for dogs like Orbit, just isn't possible. We did 2 different blood tests - very simple and pain free and both tests gave us similar answers.

It was a damn long process, but atleast I know what Orbits main triggers are. For example, I know that chicken and fish is completely out of the question. I also know that pollens are a big problem so I have methods to help there. Cats are another thing on his list, so I know to be prepared when we go to visit my mum because she has 2 cats and he flares up bad there.

I think the same thing goes with stomach upsets too. These days, there are simple blood tests for EPI, or biopsy's can be done to diagnose Inflammatory Bowel Syndrome.

I can't give exact figures off the top of my head re Dermatologist success rates, but we have had a number of clients who had referrals, who got marked improvements from their treatment without even needing to resort to allergy testing. They're specialists for a reason and know everything there is to know about animal skin. We have a cat whose allergies have been completely cured with immunotherapy, so they are out there!!

Was directed at anyone who could answer And i have probably gone a bit off topic in a way so sorry for that but my dog gets very itchy this time of the year, no red spots on skin or anything visable. He also gets swollen eyes if he rubs his face on grass or sticks his face into some plants ( only happens this time of the year) our vet recons pollen is one of the things that sets him off not sure what else does but I noticed that when I wash bedding he scratches more so maybe washing detergent also causes him to itch. Washing him with Malaseb every 2 weeks helps and vet has offered antihistamines but I would rather try something natural. He also only seems to itch mornings and evenings.

[Erny]

I think this probably illustrates why it's possibly the best thing to get an actual diagnosis first, before anything else.

I do hear what you're saying Stormie. But there are other cases I've hear and read of which don't sound quite so serious and only just suddenly sprung up. I believe the owner has done the right thing by taking the dog to the Vet (when in doubt, go) but hear that the dog is immediately prescribed antibiotics and/or a cortisone shot. The symptoms might have only just sprung inside a 24 hour period. There are other alternatives (natural) that can be tried to ease the symptom and if it were me, I'd be inclined to do this and see if the symptom re-occurred before going to the expense and potentially for the dog, the stress of allergy diagnostic measures. Not intending to make out that the allergy testing procedures are overly invasive - in the scheme of things, although I have little understanding of it, it would be the least invasive measure if it bore a likelihood of helping to resolve a problem that was inclined to be longer lasting.

Note : I am not suggesting nor advocating holding back of any drugs in situations that are potentially life threatening, such as swollen around the face/throat. IMO these need immediate attention and action, even if it is a "just in case" (ie don't know the cause) situation.

If only there was a simpler way to get to the final diagnosis that doesn't involve the months of elimination prior to getting to the end.

Amen to that!

Edited April 7, 2010 by Erny

[Erny]

And i have probably gone a bit off topic ....

That's ok - might as well have a chat about our allergy dogs along the way ;).

... my dog gets very itchy this time of the year, no red spots on skin or anything visable. He also gets swollen eyes if he rubs his face on grass or sticks his face into some plants ( only happens this time of the year) our vet recons pollen is one of the things that sets him off not sure what else does but I noticed that when I wash bedding he scratches more so maybe washing detergent also causes him to itch. Washing him with Malaseb every 2 weeks helps and vet has offered antihistamines but I would rather try something natural. He also only seems to itch mornings and evenings.

Stormie is likely to know better than I but I wonder ..... is it possible that a dog could be mildly sensitive to something (eg pollens at this time of the year) but in the absence of another irritant is not symptomatic (to our eyes), but when the 'other' irritant is present, a synergistic affect occurs that the dog's system can't handle and therefore becomes symptomatic?

What I mean is :

Perhaps your dog is a bit on the sensitive side to pollens (which would answer to "this time of the year") but might be able to normally manage that without too much ado, but the washing powder you wash his blankets in makes it more than he can handle (which would answer to the "morning/night itching"). (This can be read vice versa as well.)

I don't know what washing powder you use, Masons Mom, but I know that whenever I have washed any of my dogs' blankets I use a lot less than I would normally use in a similar load of my own clothes, regardless of how grubby the blankets are. I also tend to use the low irritant and environmentally friendly stuff.

Malaseb is good shampoo, but I wouldn't want to be using it too frequently either (to me, every two weeks is too frequently, if there were any way I could avoid it without being deleterious to the dog's welfare). I don't want to turn this thread into a "Erny recommends and uses Calendula Tea wash" ..... but I do and is something I'd rather try than anything that froths.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Erny

[JulesP]

Pollen rises in the morning and then drops down in the evening. Could be another reason. If I go outside at around 6.30am I am buggered for the day as the pollen gets me.

If you don't like frothy shampoos Erny have a look at Eco 2000. No frothing. They have a website.

[Erny]

Thank you Jules - I didn't know about the Pollen rising/lowering. Actually, it makes perfect sense, just didn't think about it.

I don't really need shampoos. I haven't bathed my boy for over a year now. He only tends to get a bit whiffy when his skin starts to play up as a result of his 'condition'. I find the Calendula brings it back to health and the cleanliness and sleekness of his coat is as though I'd given him a shampoo bath. And he shines ;). I don't use the Calendula all that often in the scheme of things and most of the 'treatments' with it are simply "spot treatments" when they are used. But I did give him a full Calendula bath about a week ago - only because he went into the lake when we were out for a run and as he has cysts in his feet (getting better) that opened up a bit because of one or two of his neighbouring toe-nails, I wanted to guard against infection. So I figured a bath with Calendula, followed up by some anticeptic spray, followed up by an application of Aloe Vera Gel on all his feet and in between them, was in order.

But I will keep the Eco2000 in mind, should I find I need it. My goal is to not bath him .

Edited April 7, 2010 by Erny

[Lab_Rat]

I have ticked using cortisone as a once off - we were trying to determine whether Zola had rhinitis or something else. The cortisone worked, but she was only on them for a week or so (thank Dog!) until my vet got her onto some Chinese Herbs ;) . This was the best thing - she has not had a recurrence at all!

Her tummy problems were dealt with parasite control to begin with, to rule out giardia but are diet related and luckily my vet doesnt do the ab's for just anything. She was also on a different array of Chinese Herbs to settle her tummy, and although she gets itchy with certain meats she hasnt thrown up or had the runs for quite some time

If you don't mind Erny, I'd love to also know for those who do use regular AB's or Cortisone, who has tried/exhausted all other options? eg did they do desentising injections, homeopathics, etc?

Stormie - I had excellent success with Chinese Herbs as Ive said above. But we dont know the cause of the rhinitis so it may have just been a one off thing??

I own working Kelpies...so none of the above

Let me take that back in case I curse myself

Will be interested in the outcome though!

Kelpie-i, I also have a working Kelpie and she doesnt appear to be allergic to anything either. Such a huge difference between having one that is and one thats not!! Feeding time is fun!

Rat

[Mas1981]

And i have probably gone a bit off topic ....

That's ok - might as well have a chat about our allergy dogs along the way .

... my dog gets very itchy this time of the year, no red spots on skin or anything visable. He also gets swollen eyes if he rubs his face on grass or sticks his face into some plants ( only happens this time of the year) our vet recons pollen is one of the things that sets him off not sure what else does but I noticed that when I wash bedding he scratches more so maybe washing detergent also causes him to itch. Washing him with Malaseb every 2 weeks helps and vet has offered antihistamines but I would rather try something natural. He also only seems to itch mornings and evenings.

Stormie is likely to know better than I but I wonder ..... is it possible that a dog could be mildly sensitive to something (eg pollens at this time of the year) but in the absence of another irritant is not symptomatic (to our eyes), but when the 'other' irritant is present, a synergistic affect occurs that the dog's system can't handle and therefore becomes symptomatic?

What I mean is :

Perhaps your dog is a bit on the sensitive side to pollens (which would answer to "this time of the year") but might be able to normally manage that without too much ado, but the washing powder you wash his blankets in makes it more than he can handle (which would answer to the "morning/night itching"). (This can be read vice versa as well.)

I don't know what washing powder you use, Masons Mom, but I know that whenever I have washed any of my dogs' blankets I use a lot less than I would normally use in a similar load of my own clothes, regardless of how grubby the blankets are. I also tend to use the low irritant and environmentally friendly stuff.

Malaseb is good shampoo, but I wouldn't want to be using it too frequently either (to me, every two weeks is too frequently, if there were any way I could avoid it without being deleterious to the dog's welfare). I don't want to turn this thread into a "Erny recommends and uses Calendula Tea wash" ..... but I do and is something I'd rather try than anything that froths.

The calendula tea, what flowers is it again? I stay quite far from health shops etc but I am going to a large mall later and they have 2 health stores so I can ask at both if they have those flowers

I do try keep the wash powder to a minimum but the problem is that he sleeps in the bed with us :D I am going to get a detergent from the Health store to see if it makes a difference.

[Erny]

The calendula tea, what flowers is it again? I stay quite far from health shops etc but I am going to a large mall later and they have 2 health stores so I can ask at both if they have those flowers

I've been out all day - sorry. They are dried Marigold flowers. But if you got to the health store/s they should have known them as "Calendula" anyway.

I do try keep the wash powder to a minimum but the problem is that he sleeps in the bed with us I am going to get a detergent from the Health store to see if it makes a difference.

For the sake of your dog's skin health, would it not be worth having him not sleep in the bed with you so that you didn't feel so inclined to bath him as often? Detergent is oil stripping. Not good.

[Loraine]

My boy can get the itchies, and has dug bloody holes in himself. Finally it as tracked to very low thyroid. He still gets itchy and I know that he is allergic to too much beef and oats. I do not like him on cortisone (IMHO it is pushed too often) as that can lead to Cushing's or atypical Cushing's and that is one disease I'd rather not treat again. It seems that now as long as he gets the right dose of Thyroxine he is OK.

[Mas1981]

The calendula tea, what flowers is it again? I stay quite far from health shops etc but I am going to a large mall later and they have 2 health stores so I can ask at both if they have those flowers

I've been out all day - sorry. They are dried Marigold flowers. But if you got to the health store/s they should have known them as "Calendula" anyway.

I do try keep the wash powder to a minimum but the problem is that he sleeps in the bed with us I am going to get a detergent from the Health store to see if it makes a difference.

For the sake of your dog's skin health, would it not be worth having him not sleep in the bed with you so that you didn't feel so inclined to bath him as often? Detergent is oil stripping. Not good.

Just to clarify the detergent was for the bedding, a natural one with no perfumes etc.

I would love to not have to bath him, he actually doesnt get smelly, the only reason he gets bathed is because it seems to help with the itching, I think a lot of it is a contact allergy.

[Erny]

I would love to not have to bath him, he actually doesnt get smelly, the only reason he gets bathed is because it seems to help with the itching, I think a lot of it is a contact allergy.

Let the Calendula do its job and see how it goes, without bathing him.

[Erny]

My boy can get the itchies, and has dug bloody holes in himself. Finally it as tracked to very low thyroid. He still gets itchy and I know that he is allergic to too much beef and oats. I do not like him on cortisone (IMHO it is pushed too often) as that can lead to Cushing's or atypical Cushing's and that is one disease I'd rather not treat again. It seems that now as long as he gets the right dose of Thyroxine he is OK.

I'm with you on your preference to avoid cortisone if at all possible, Loraine. I know that some can't and that it is in their best welfare interests for life quality to be on it, but I agree that I do wonder and worry sometimes at how quickly and easily it is prescribed.

Just on the subject of Hypothyroidism (which is another topic I am interested in - and have been for a good number of years), were the tests run in AUS or USA, how old was your dog when he was diagnosed, and what breed of dog (if you don't mind me asking). Just curious.