A Surprise In My Brother's Border Collie Litter! - Updated

[Darien]

They are beautiful I'd love to see a picture of the Tri when he/she is about 6 months old. He has lovely markings and looks like they will darken up very nicely :p

[teekay]

Stunning pups, absolutely gorgeous. I Luuuuuvre the tri colour.

Not that long ago someone asked me if Jenna was a white Border Collie. At the time I thought the man was a bit daft but seeing these pictures maybe he wasn't so daft after all. Just another thing I have learned on DOL.

Here's Jenna and she is Border Collie size. She's a GR x Samoyed (for those that don't know me, I got her before I knew better.)

[Loving my Oldies]

Stunning pups, absolutely gorgeous. I Luuuuuvre the tri colour.

Not that long ago someone asked me if Jenna was a white Border Collie. At the time I thought the man was a bit daft but seeing these pictures maybe he wasn't so daft after all. Just another thing I have learned on DOL.

Here's Jenna and she is Border Collie size. She's a GR x Samoyed (for those that don't know me, I got her before I knew better.)

Jenna is a stunner - look at those loooonnnnng legs. And going totally off topic (but still about beautiful dogs ), I'm glad you didn't know any better when you got Jenna because if you hadn't have had her, you probably wouldn't have adopted Mya :D .

[Mystiqview]

I've heard americans call our red so many things; gold, wheaten, yellow, ee red, australian red...

My vet kept calling Maddy a wheaten when she was a pup. Said she wouldn't be a red and would stay quite light!

The breeder wasn't concerned and laughed at the word wheaten.

It is rather amusing the number of ignorant Australian people (even breeders) who still call red/white bcs as wheaten, champagne, golden, caramel.

[Zug Zug]

The red ones are soooo pretty.

What gorgeous pups!

[teekay]

Stunning pups, absolutely gorgeous. I Luuuuuvre the tri colour.

Not that long ago someone asked me if Jenna was a white Border Collie. At the time I thought the man was a bit daft but seeing these pictures maybe he wasn't so daft after all. Just another thing I have learned on DOL. :D

Here's Jenna and she is Border Collie size. She's a GR x Samoyed (for those that don't know me, I got her before I knew better.)

Jenna is a stunner - look at those loooonnnnng legs. And going totally off topic (but still about beautiful dogs ), I'm glad you didn't know any better when you got Jenna because if you hadn't have had her, you probably wouldn't have adopted Mya .

You know, I hadn't thought of it that way, but you are so right MM, I probably wouldn't. Everything happens for a reason eh?

[openarms]

What gorgeous puppies! I think the pup will develop more pigment over time, either way i'm keen to see some more pics as he/she grows

It'll be interesting to see how he grows up!

We have a mismarked Australian Shepherd puppy who was born with completely white head (the back half of her body is mainly black). She started developing black eyeliner at about 6 weeks old and now at 4 months it is thick and complete. At about 12 weeks, she started developing black spots on her ears (just the skin - her fur is still white!) and the spots now cover quite a bit of her ears. She has a black spot next to one of her eyes and in the past two weeks one has started to show next to her other eye Her eyes have been certified clear (they are light brown) and she appears to have no hearing issues.

Awww you talking about Ava? She's beautiful!

[Nevafollo]

Wow they are very cute...the tri is adorable!

[SmoothieGirl]

So, is a Sable BC also a dilute of the Red, or is the Sable a completely different colour again or maybe a dilute of the Tri.

Its all very confusing this colour stuff, but it makes for 'surprise' time when the litters come.

[JulesP]

No sable isn't dilute red. It is caused by the agouti gene which very simply strips the dog's real colour off certain hairs. Amber is actually black with the agouti gene. In tri it strips the colour off in the tri pattern.

[mr.mister]

adding to this post ^

the agouti gene can act off most base colours (except red and merle as it cannot display either properly) so you could have a chocolate dog with the agouti gene acting upon it to get a chocolate sable.

Same applies with all the solid colors.

[JulesP]

You can get a sable merle. You just can't see the merle, either at all or hardly. As it is dangerous to mate Merle to Merle, it would not be a good idea to mate a Sable to a Merle either.

I can't think of a genetic reason of why you couldn't get a sable red either but it would just look like a clear sable ie no black hairs

[SmoothieGirl]

Well there you go. I know a sable merle Collie and only if it is pointed out to you can you actually see any sort of representation of it in his coat, otherwise you'd just think him a handsome sable.

Thanks for that, fascinating.

[mr.mister]

You can get a sable merle. You just can't see the merle, either at all or hardly. As it is dangerous to mate Merle to Merle, it would not be a good idea to mate a Sable to a Merle either.

I can't think of a genetic reason of why you couldn't get a sable red either but it would just look like a clear sable ie no black hairs

That is what I was saying.

They are possible but can't be properly expressed on the coat.

[dancinbcs]

No sable isn't dilute red. It is caused by the agouti gene which very simply strips the dog's real colour off certain hairs. Amber is actually black with the agouti gene. In tri it strips the colour off in the tri pattern.

Amber is a shaded sable that results when tri and sable genes combine. A clear sable with two sable genes is almost impossible to discern from a red except the sable will have a few black tipped hairs just down from the base of the tale. This occurs in other breeds as well. Gold coloured Cockers can be either clear sable or "ee" red genetically and are still called gold even though they are gentically different.

Clear sable is very rare in Borders. Most of the sables are shaded sable but a clear sable is possible. In the past all the reds and sables were called sable. The term red was only introduced when red was added to the standard.

[JulesP]

Yes I know Amber is a shaded sable. Were have I said that she isn't??

[dancinbcs]

Yes I know Amber is a shaded sable. Were have I said that she isn't??

I was just explaining for the others that she is the colour that results from tri and sable occuring together.

[JulesP]

This is the beastie is question for those that are interested and don't go in the BC thread. It is thought that she will get more black hairs as she gets older.

Amber