A Surprise In My Brother's Border Collie Litter! - Updated

[Ashanali]

My brother overseas has bred a border collie litter (both parents pure with papers but he isn't registering them. I've already told him off about that.)

anyway, have a look what two black and white border collies produced

Happy mum with her babies

now her babies

and the biggest surprise of all that has my brother looking like this guy ;)

Yes, it is pure white

Yes, it is a pure Border Collie

No, no other dogs got to his bitch.

My SIL has always wanted a pure white dog so and my brother has had a life-long love of Border Collies so this is their dream dog. They have already decided that they are keeping him.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Ashanali

[Kyra]

How cute ;) i quite like the bub in the 3rd photo aswell.. awww.

[MolassesLass]

It may yet prove to be a pale (Australian) red but will be cute either way. ;)

[mr.mister]

to me he actually looks like a very very light red. It will probably darken with age into a champagne colour. ;)

very cute.

[persephone]

yep- if you look back in the parent's breeding, you will probably find the reason for the abundance of white .

The white one is at great risk of being deaf , I would think ;) Also, if pigment does not devop on nose leather/pads, they will have to guard against skin cancer/ soft pads...

love that third pup's markings

[Ashanali]

I suggested it was a red (because orange/lemon pointers often start out all white also) and he said that he had called the breeder of sire and dam and she had said that there's no red in the lines.

He found this site online that talks about white Border Collies http://www.bordercollie.org/kay.html

I suspect he will end up a light red though... will be interesting to see ;)

[casowner]

You can see very faint markings on him/her it will be interesting to see how the pup matures

[Ashanali]

yep- if you look back in the parent's breeding, you will probably find the reason for the abundance of white .

The white one is at great risk of being deaf , I would think ;) Also, if pigment does not devop on nose leather/pads, they will have to guard against skin cancer/ soft pads...

love that third pup's markings

Considering my brother lives in the snow for the majority of the year, the dogs don't spend a huge amount of time outdoors so it's probably a good thing for the dog to be staying with my brother if he's going to end up very pale.

[persephone]

You can see very faint markings on him/her it will be interesting to see how the pup matures

yes- after reading your post, I moved my screen around, and saw what I think is a white 'cape'.. ;) It could be a very pretty puppy !

[stef_83]

they are very stunning pups. and what a nice surprise ;)

[Ashanali]

to the Border Collie people, I have sent my brother the link so he can take a look for himself, but if the parents lines aren't known to carry red, how does the red come through?

Is red a recessive gene?

I'm really curious now ;)

[Gretel]

Not sure if it's a recognised colour but don't they come in wheaten?

[Miss B]

Yeah I thought I could see faint markings on the rear half of the pup too.

[wuffles]

It'll be interesting to see how he grows up!

We have a mismarked Australian Shepherd puppy who was born with completely white head (the back half of her body is mainly black). She started developing black eyeliner at about 6 weeks old and now at 4 months it is thick and complete. At about 12 weeks, she started developing black spots on her ears (just the skin - her fur is still white!) and the spots now cover quite a bit of her ears. She has a black spot next to one of her eyes and in the past two weeks one has started to show next to her other eye ;) Her eyes have been certified clear (they are light brown) and she appears to have no hearing issues.

Edited April 6, 2010 by wuffles

[mr.mister]

red is wheaten. It may also be called tan or ginger but in australia it is recognised as red. It can vary to be a very light champagne or a rich ginger.

I believe red is recessive and is a 'mask' colour so to speak. To simplify it, it basically masks the base colour, which for example could be blue, black, chocolate, whatever. This is why the nose/lip pigment will not tone with the red but will tone with the colour of the base coat. So if the base coat is black, but with the red gene in action, the pup will be red but have black pigment. Hope that makes sense. ;)

(That's how I understand it anyway so if I am wrong please someone correct me )

It's always a bit of a gamble with genetics - occasionally these surprises do crop up. The red could have been waaay back in the lines and just happened to carry all the way through.

[Ashanali]

Thanks for that. ;)

As I said, I suspect the pup will be red but my brother is adamant he will be white. If your very basic genetics are right, this could be a submissive gene that's been laying around for a while just waiting to pop up. Pretty cool.

[mr.mister]

this probably explains it better than me ;) :

http://bryningbordercollies.com/Border-Collie-Colours

scroll down until you see the title 'extension'.

[winpara]

Looks like a pale red/white to me too.... do you know the breeding of the parents? Red is recessive to black and can be hidden for many generations. I bred a known red carrier (dam was red) to a potential red carrier (dam was carrier) and got 7 black puppies. Repeated the mating and got 3 reds of 6 - so there is some luck involved as well.

Unless DNA tested to be certain then just because none of the direct ancestors produced red doesn't mean they didn't carry it... just means they either werent bred to a carrier... or that the colour lottery decided to give them all black/white. ;)

ETA - pic of one of my red whites as a newborn (and I have had them paler than that -but that was pre digital camera days!)

Edited April 6, 2010 by winpara

[cry123]

We have working border collies (we do three sheep dog trialling) and white in the breed is not uncommon at all. It can be a good thing, and also can be popular. For working BC's they just need to be strong, because they are white (or ones with a lot of white) tend to draw the sheep to them (and quiten the sheep right down) so they need to have the strength to be able to move them.

We breed a litter both mother and father where the "normal" black and white border collie marked. However several of the pups had a lot of white on them, and one of the pups was almost pure white, it was just that 3 or 4 generations ago was a white dog.

[Ashanali]

no idea of the breeding, I'd have to ask my brother and he isn't hugely computer savvy, a reply might take him a while. (he can barely send emails. ;) I was amazed he found stuff online about white Border Collies. )