Lunging At Passers-by When Walking

[macka]

My 6 1/2 month old lab is doing very well with regards to walking on a loose leash. I have him on a martingale collar and a 3-foot leash, and he generally walks on a loose leash either beside me or slightly in front, and when he does get ahead he responds well to a light correction on the martingale.

However, when we pass people on the street, with or without other dogs, he lunges to try and get to them, becomes over excited and, at 25kg+, difficult to control (and he's only going to get bigger!).

Once we get past each other I am able to regain control and continue our walk, and he goes back to walking nicely again.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to teach him to ignore or at least remain calm around other people/dogs on our walks?

He is just trying to say hello but doesn't realise not everyone in the world finds him as interesting as he finds them! I've already frightened a few people who were justifiably unhappy about having a 25kg dog lunging at them.

Thanks

[Mas1981]

My 6 1/2 month old lab is doing very well with regards to walking on a loose leash. I have him on a martingale collar and a 3-foot leash, and he generally walks on a loose leash either beside me or slightly in front, and when he does get ahead he responds well to a light correction on the martingale.

However, when we pass people on the street, with or without other dogs, he lunges to try and get to them, becomes over excited and, at 25kg+, difficult to control (and he's only going to get bigger!).

Once we get past each other I am able to regain control and continue our walk, and he goes back to walking nicely again.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to teach him to ignore or at least remain calm around other people/dogs on our walks?

He is just trying to say hello but doesn't realise not everyone in the world finds him as interesting as he finds them! I've already frightened a few people who were justifiably unhappy about having a 25kg dog lunging at them. ;)

Thanks

Clicker train him to look at you instead of the other dogs, its taken me a long long time but I have finally managed to get Mason to stop doing this, its awful I hurt my back a few times because he pulls me towards them with such force!

I have also trained my dog to sit and wait until they walk past, does Archer know the wait command?? I used to get Mason to sit, ask him to wait and when he did I gave loads of yummy treats. They must learn the wait command at home though.

[Prydenjoy]

There's a short booklet about counter conditioning and desensitisation by Patricia McConnell that I read to help get Berri's lunging and barking under control, I can't think for the life of me what it was called though, perhaps someone else knows?

Basically start at a distance with a high rate of reward, never move past your dogs threshold, gradually get closer over several weeks. A good "watch me" command also helps.

[Kynan]

There's a short booklet about counter conditioning and desensitisation by Patricia McConnell that I read to help get Berri's lunging and barking under control, I can't think for the life of me what it was called though, perhaps someone else knows?

Is it "Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash Aggressive Dog" by Patricia McConnell and Karen London?

Edited April 6, 2010 by Kynan

[macka]

MasonsMum: He sort of knows wait - I don't really have much occasion use that command except for getting out of the car so that's the only time I use it. I'd probably have to work on it more if I wanted to use it outside.

I'd prefer to find a solution that allows us to keep walking though if possible, I don't really want to have to put him in a sit every time someone walks past.

A good "watch me" command is a good idea Jeanne. When you say start at a distance how did you put that into practise? Cross the road?

There's a short booklet about counter conditioning and desensitisation by Patricia McConnell that I read to help get Berri's lunging and barking under control, I can't think for the life of me what it was called though, perhaps someone else knows?

Is it "Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash Aggressive Dog" by Patricia McConnell and Karen London?

Just to clarify, he isn't being aggressive he is just being overly friendly, and over-excited.

[Kavik]

Another good one is "Click to Calm: Healing the Aggressive Dog" by Emma Parsons. Great for getting focus on you and off of other dogs and people (works for excitement as well! ) Pretty much does what Mason's Mum suggested - clicker training them to look at you instead of the dog or person. To get enough distance at the start being on the other side of the road is a good idea. Later you can move to driveways so you can still get distance but be on the same side of the road.

[Prydenjoy]

Just found the book, it is "The Cautious Canine" - Over friendly, fear aggressive, whatever, if you are correctly counter conditioning and you will be teaching the dog that when it sees another dog (or whatever) YOU are the best thing in the world because it has a wonderful association between seeing that thing and wonderful things coming from you, so it should automatically cause your dog to look at you.

When I started at a distance I would cross the road. I would keep my eyes peeled and make sure I saw the other dog before Berri did and start shovelling the food into his mouth as we passed, I mean really shovelling it down so that he didn't have a chance to react. If he did react I'd say a quick watch me and start reinforcing again as soon as he looked at me (no point feeding him while he's looking at and lunging at the other dog!). Obviously this decreased over time, we got closer and closer and the treats came less and less. He still isn't always perfect, lets out a woof here and there just to have his say (he really makes up in attitude what he lacks in size).

[Prydenjoy]

Sorry, double post

Edited April 6, 2010 by Jeanne

[Kavik]

What I like about "Click to Calm" is that you allow the dog to look at the dog/person and then click/treat when the dog looks back at you. So you are giving the dog a choice and helping them to deal with the thing they are distracted by, and not just distracting them/luring them with a treat

[Mas1981]

What I like about "Click to Calm" is that you allow the dog to look at the dog/person and then click/treat when the dog looks back at you. So you are giving the dog a choice and helping them to deal with the thing they are distracted by, and not just distracting them/luring them with a treat

That is very good advice, I was told to do something similar by my instructor as sometimes when I am working off lead with my dog he runs off after other offlead dogs to play. What I was told to do is everytime another dog is around and he ignores it and looks it me he gets a treat, if he doesnt look at me after a few seconds i say 'me' and then when he looks at me i treat him. You could also try teaching Archer to heel Macka as that way he will be looking at you all the time I taught Mason to heel with a toy as a reward, works a treat!

[macka]

Thanks for the replies, I will investigate Click to calm etc, start crossing the rd and see how we go.

[Aidan]

You've had some excellent advice. Controlled set-ups are very useful in the early stages.

[mrs tornsocks]

Macka, in the one on one session I had with a trainer, we went back to basics with focus/click/reward, just sitting down and in a controlled environment. We practice this heaps now even though it feels 'easy' when we're not outside.

My problem is that he will sit when someone's coming, but sometimes I feel that actually heightens his sense of anticipation. I need to 'shovel' food like jeanne says.

Archie is still out of control with his lungeing so I feel your pain. Only other thing to suggest if you're not already is that you are taking him for walks when he's a bit peckish, so the reward holds extra value.

[Prydenjoy]

My problem is that he will sit when someone's coming, but sometimes I feel that actually heightens his sense of anticipation. I need to 'shovel' food like jeanne says.

It's the problem in the real world, we can't control everything (as Aiden said controlled set ups are useful, so that you can set the dog up for success and not have to "shovel" them in so much). I haven't read Click to Calm, sounds like a great book, on my list of books to buy, but in uncontrolled situations where you are past the dogs threshold of "look, take it in, but then make a rational decision to look back at me" I do find distraction with a high rate of reinforcement a handy tool, for me, as I got closer the rate of reinforcement crept up, and as I got past the thick of it the reinforcement dropped down again. If the dog is looking at you eagerly in anticipation (there is a strong association there) then you can drop the rate of reinforcement down by about 1 treat per 1/4 or 1/2 second, very gradually so that the dog doesn't realise what is happening and you don't "lose" it. I'm assuming that the lunging behavior is self reinforcing for the dog, so you really want to set up for success and not "lose" it by rewarding too slowly when it is past its threshold.

[corvus]

I feel your pain, Mrs T.

For a while I was using Premack with my overly friendly lunger. Get yourself under control and sit and you get to move forwards. It worked as far as bringing him down from his threshold went, but then he started to anticipate the release from the sit. So I really worked on making his "hang about" informal heel nice and strong. That also helped, but then I read Control Unleashed and thought I'd give the Look At That game a go. It worked much faster and the problem basically dissolved. LAT is the same as Emma Parsons' exercise looking at the distraction then back at you, I think. Sounds like it, anyway.

The only problem now is getting it reliable. People keep randomly reinforcing him by letting their dogs come over and say hi when he's not in a nice, calm sit. It's exasperating, but hey, that's life. If I got off my butt and actually did some work on it outside of our morning walks I'm sure we'd have it nailed in no time.

[Kavik]

What I find helps is to really do your best to stay far enough away so that you are not past their threshold. I know it is a PITA, Zoe is dog aggro so I walk where either I can cross the road or pull into a driveway to get enough space. It really makes a big difference. Especially as other people are not always accomodating, and let their dog walk up to yours on an extender lead when you tell them yours is not friendly . The odd time that it is not possible to get enough space I actually find not delivering the treat until after they have left works better for me than to continually give more treats, as Zoe will likely refocus on the dog after getting the treat, not a problem if we have space but it is a problem if the dog is close (or owner of other dog is silly).

[Aidan]

Just a tip - you've got to be thinking "reinforcement" and not "bribery". Think "am I reinforcing this calm behaviour? Or just distracting him?"

If you get enough distance between yourself and the other dog there will be something to click. I don't even pay too much attention or work too hard to get it, I wait for something. I tell people to keep the hand loaded with food but get your dog used to that, you should be able to leave your hand by your side without your dog trying to get to it or thinking it is for him (Doggy Zen exercises teach this).

The behaviour should be cued by the other dog (eventually), so no noises, cues, don't say his name etc Just set him up for success by getting enough distance and let it happen, being ready to mark it with your clicker when it does (and it will, if you've set him up for success). Use a high rate of reinforcement. Don't let him get out to the end of the leash after he has the first treat, click before that happens.

You're really just teaching "heel" and providing a distraction. That's all this is.

[Kavik]

Just a tip - you've got to be thinking "reinforcement" and not "bribery". Think "am I reinforcing this calm behaviour? Or just distracting him?"

Really good point

Give them a chance to choose what to do. Give them enough space to choose correctly. Reward the correct choice.

[Prydenjoy]

you should be able to leave your hand by your side without your dog trying to get to it

That was never a problem for me and Berri

I think when is comes down to it, if the dog is set up for success you wont have to "lure" or "bribe" the behavior anyway, the dog will be able to work it out quite easily (as dogs do) what is getting them the reinforcement and what they need to do to keep it up

[macka]

Macka, in the one on one session I had with a trainer, we went back to basics with focus/click/reward, just sitting down and in a controlled environment. We practice this heaps now even though it feels 'easy' when we're not outside.

My problem is that he will sit when someone's coming, but sometimes I feel that actually heightens his sense of anticipation. I need to 'shovel' food like jeanne says.

Archie is still out of control with his lungeing so I feel your pain. Only other thing to suggest if you're not already is that you are taking him for walks when he's a bit peckish, so the reward holds extra value.

Yes I think Archer is similar that's why I was sort of resistant to the idea of getting him to sit, because I know it aint gonna happen, or even if it does, it won't last long before anticipation builds and he lunges again.

So from the advice in this thread sounds like that is because he is going way over threshold in his excitement, and we need to get further away to start with.

P.S He is always a bit peckish! But yes, I usually walk them in the afternoon which is before dinner.