Fat Labradors: A Thought

[SparkyTansy]

one thing to keep in mind i guess with "types" in different countries to work, is the different working conditions... and rules for trials...

is the landscape different in the UK to the US? Do the labs in the US do different work to the ones in the UK? Would that explain the difference in type?

Just one difference i can think of with the pointer and setter breeds in the US is their 12 o'clock tail... they love a 12 o'clock tail even though the setters and the pointer should carry their tail lower, the setters level or below the level of their topline. both pointers and setters should have a slashing movement to their tail which wouldn't happen with a high set tail. Sure, a tiny difference but what does it to to them structurally? This applies across the board and would explain such massive differences in type between working and show lines...

[mrs tornsocks]

I think Archie has a similar face to his mum

Yes, definintely more like Mum than Dad at this point, although archie's nose doesn't have the cute turned up feature of his mum, it's more elongated. But Lucca (mummy) has the most adorable face, esp in that pic when she's with her bubbas.

Edited April 8, 2010 by mrs tornsocks

[sandgrubber]

And what sort of cover was the Labrador originally bred to work in?

I am sure you know this so I'm not sure why you're asking the question but labradors were originally water dogs bred in Newfoundland to retrieve fishing nets from boats. This is partly why they are built the way they are. Well sprung ribs for buoyancy (that famous barrel shape which means that the maximum amount of lung is above the water) and a short coupled, powerful body for swimming and pulling.

This background was behind the first post in this thread. A dog pulling in fishing nets in the Bay of Fundy (water temperature often near 0, lots of wind) is facing the same challenges as marine mammals -- all of which pack on blubber when they can. I'm not saying blubber is good. But I think the tendency to pack it on is intrensic to Labbies.

In my personal opinion, a dog with sound bone structure can pack on a bit of extra weight -- I don't mean get obese . . . but not show great concavity behind the ribcage -- without much harm, and it doesn't bother me to see a Lab who is a little cuddly. I've seen some pet Labs who don't look look fit for the catwalk, so to speak, live to 14+ years and keep good health. Sometimes I think that people who have difficulty staying slim themselves take it out on their dogs.

It's a different matter, entirely, if hips and elbows are bad. One girl I bred -- stunning girl, sweet nature -- Xrayed bad . .. elbows in the 3,3 range. I sold her as a pet on condition that they keep her weight down and stay in consultation with a vet. She got fat. She almost stopped moving. I pointed out to the that their dog was so placid cause she was in pain. Good people. They took her to a good vet who gave them a stern lecture. Next time I saw her she was 12 kg lighter, looking marvelous, and moving like a young dog again. She's now six, energetic, no limp whatsoever. . . and 27 kg (huge bone, big rib cage). Likely she'll have problems as she becomes really old. But severe dieting has allowed her to enjoy her young years.

As for what sort of cover for the working Lab . .. I think the word is versatile. No one hunts here these days . . . but in the traditional UK setting, I think the Lord would want a heavy dog for thick cover . . . often a Lab . . . and some lighter dogs who were faster on the chase over open ground . . . could also be Labs. The little bitch was valued as well as the extreme heavy set dog. From what I've read, we have a range of Lab types because it's good, with a group of working dogs, to have a range.

Edited April 8, 2010 by sandgrubber

[RubyStar]

My rescue choc Lab, who yes probably from poor lines (aka BYB), has a very narrow waist where you can clearly see where her ribs end. I did try and pack a few kilos on her when I first got her, but all it did was make her chest even more round and it didn't change her backend one bit. She looked awful! So I have to keep her slim to make her look more in proportion. Sounds a bit like me but in reverse, more eating and it stacks on my backend and not my chest

[Mas1981]

My rescue choc Lab, who yes probably from poor lines (aka BYB), has a very narrow waist where you can clearly see where her ribs end. I did try and pack a few kilos on her when I first got her, but all it did was make her chest even more round and it didn't change her backend one bit. She looked awful! So I have to keep her slim to make her look more in proportion. Sounds a bit like me but in reverse, more eating and it stacks on my backend and not my chest

I am the same except mine goes on the stomach and backside too. Mason has a lovely big chest and any weight he picks up also goes straight to the front.

[toughgirl27]

i also work at a boarding kennel and have seen the extremly fat labs and some lovely fit looking labs..

i think that if they are a pet not working - as most are, then if ur theory is correct the extra layer is unecessary?? Just a though

I also think that the leaner the better on their joints and better in the long run

I agree, Kirst. Extra layers of fat on a lab are unneccessary on pet labs, and are also a major strain on the joints.

I also work at a boarding kennel and over the years we have had lots of labs stay with us all of varying sizes, weights, heights....

I also think that if they are too lean this also makes them more food driven and they seem to be constantly "starving".

So watching their food intake, making sure they get regular daily exercise, giving them a complete nutritional food

is a good idea as with most dogs.

Once we had an enormous lab who used to stay with us. I mean he was humungous. He had big rolls of fat around his head, no neck, could hardly walk,

he was so big. And the owner's insisted every time they brought him that the vet said it was all muscle!!!! I wish I had a photo to show you. I had never seen a lab that obese!

XXToughgirlXxxxx

[toughgirl27]

I'm liking this thread full of healthy lean labbie pics!

Me too. They are great!

[toughgirl27]

Damned if you do damned if you dont...

I posted a similar thread a little while back because I was having so many people comment on how skinny my GR was!

After a while even I started to think she was losing weight and was getting too skinny so I changed her food to a higher fat one.

Now a month on, she has lost her waist, seems heavier and is much more lethargic. ;)

Back to the old food and keeping her trim, she looks and certainly seems to feel much better on it.

Also looking at the lovely fit labs in here, I think I was on the right track before!!!

Rubystar- your lab is stunning!!

Deelee your GR is very cute!

XXToughgirlXxxxx

[Paulp]

Here is an interesting power point presentation about body fat and health in our pets, note: this link will download a powerpoint file to your computer

Presentation

[Baby Dragon]

Everyone's pics in here are gorgeous. It's so good to see so many healthy looking Labs

Edited April 8, 2010 by Baby Dragon

[sandgrubber]

Interesting. But extremely frustrating. Hard to know what is being said and what research evidence stands behind the apparent conclusions. Not a big fan of power point presentations unless extensive notes are attached.

I think a lot of people chime in on this subject following the general sense of discussion of human body weight. Yes, all of us would like to be slim and muscular and only a minority of us are.

I'm also struck by how often professional athletes are forced to retire at an early age due to injury or illness.

Only a small fraction of all dogs in wealthy countries will come close to living as working dogs.

It's easy to chime in on the 'keep 'em skinny' bandwagon. It's pretty hard to come to a fact-based conclusion about how rounded vs. slim affects the health of a dog in later life -- apart from dogs who have bad joints, in which case I am entirely convinced of the value of keeping a dog lean.

Here is an interesting power point presentation about body fat and health in our pets, note: this link will download a powerpoint file to your computer

Presentation

[poodlefan]

It's easy to chime in on the 'keep 'em skinny' bandwagon. It's pretty hard to come to a fact-based conclusion about how rounded vs. slim affects the health of a dog in later life -- apart from dogs who have bad joints, in which case I am entirely convinced of the value of keeping a dog lean.

The link between excess body weight and increased risk of cruciate ligament rupture is established. CL rupture is noted in by some as an issue for Labs.

And of course the link between joint problems and excess body fat is also established. I'd suggest keeping dogs lean (not skinny) is a method of preventing, not just managing these issues, particularly in growing dogs.

A dog doesn't have to look like a toast rack to be lean. Clearly body type will play a part in how a dog should "look". You don't want a Lab that looks like a Whippet but you should still be able to see a waist and a visible tuck. Its your hands on the dog that will be the best indicator of whether the dog is "in shape" or not.

The fact remains that many people confuse fat with "muscle bulk" and for many a pet Labrador, this is an issue. Many pet Lab owners have no idea that their dogs are fat because every Lab they see looks like theirs.

Edited April 9, 2010 by poodlefan

[Staranais]

The fact remains that many people confuse fat with "muscle bulk" and for many a pet Labrador, this is an issue. Many pet Lab owners have no idea that their dogs are fat because every Lab they see looks like theirs.

Staffords are sadly similar. I remember being told several times that my old boy was "skinny", since he had a waistline and you could (*gasp*) see his last rib. I don't know where people get the impression that staffords are supposed to look like little balls of lard, but I suspect they're somehow confusing "muscular" with "solid" with "fat".

I would guess that if a dog has inherited perfect joint structure, then he can probably carry a lot of excess weight and not be at high risk of damaging his joints. But it's a fact that most pet owners have no idea if their dog has great, average, marginal, or shocking hips and elbows. Even x-rays are only partially predictive of how well a dog's joints will age. IMO keeping a dog lean in case he has less than perfect joints is far better than waiting until the dog has already shown signs of damage to the joints and then telling the owner to keep the dog leaner.

Also, my understanding is that the risk of cruciate tear does go up as dogs get heavier, even in dogs with apparently perfectly healthy stifles.

Perhaps the argument needs to be turned back the other way. Is there any evidence that keeping a pet labrador plump is in any way helpful to his health? If not, then why not keep him lean and avoid stressing his joints and ligaments any more than they have to be?

[poodlefan]

Also, my understanding is that the risk of cruciate tear does go up as dogs get heavier, even in dogs with apparently perfectly healthy stifles.

Recovery time from surgery is also affected by weight.

[mikelli]

Bumping back to the top

[sandgrubber]

About 20% of the dogs who come to my boarding kennel are Labbies. I have never had a Lab in kennels who is recovering from cruciate surgery. I've had lots of other breeds in with 'cruciate under repair' notes. No denying that cruciate problems are possible. Labs are very very common, and you can find every disease known to dog found in Labs. But I don't think cruciate is one of the breed's weak spots. Despite the fact that a lot of labs pack on extra kilos.

I have had diabetic Labs . . . in my experience, that's a bigger worry, given chronic obesity, than cruciate damage.

Also, my understanding is that the risk of cruciate tear does go up as dogs get heavier, even in dogs with apparently perfectly healthy stifles.

Recovery time from surgery is also affected by weight.

Edited April 11, 2010 by sandgrubber