Where Is The Future For Dogs?

[alpha bet]

Just got back from my first USA trip - attended a Dog Training Conference..... some great stuff....

One of the best speakers was this amazing woman called Temple Grandin....

She is actually an autistic woman who has achieved remarkable things - works with animals as well as helping kids in autistic programs. She has an incredible scientific knowledge from many fields and explained that she doesnt work on giving her opinions but when she is presented with a problem (either about animals, children or engineering) she mentally is able to gather information from different studies and then draw conclusions.

She drew very thought provoking conclusions about how humans are being more and more detached from animals and nature in general - hence a danger in future is that our future legislators who have no understanding of animals are the ones who will be making the decisions about rules and regulations regarding dogs / dairy / piggeries etc........ Now isnt that a scary thought....?

She completely inspired me to get off my backside and try to get more young adults and kids involved with training and understanding dogs.

She also related training of dogs to a very similar fashion to how many autistic kids learn.....

As I said an amazing woman - and her autism actually allows her to operate without any hidden agenda. She says exactly what she thinks and doesnt care if you like or agree with her - she is there purely to share knowledge. If you every have the chance to attend a talk from her - then sell your soul for a ticket...

We need more like her out there who can speak for us who dont have the ability....

Perhaps others out in DOL know of other people who have some amazing talent like this.... in which case share your experience with others.

[Erny]

She drew very thought provoking conclusions about how humans are being more and more detached from animals and nature in general - hence a danger in future is that our future legislators who have no understanding of animals are the ones who will be making the decisions about rules and regulations regarding dogs / dairy / piggeries etc........ Now isnt that a scary thought....?

Look around you. It's already happening.

I read Temple Grandin's book. I didn't agree with everything she had to say in relation to dogs, but it was a good book and leant itself to great insight as to how the complexity of our normally functioning brain system clouds the way in which we look at and communicate with dogs (and animals in general).

Edited April 3, 2010 by Erny

[Kavik]

Her book was very interesting, in terms of how we generalise well and animals don't and that small changes can affect their performance.

[Prydenjoy]

Sounds like a great conference, yes I probably would sell my soul to go to one lol

She sounds very interesting, I might have to get a copy of her book myself.

If we weren't so detached from animals there would be much tighter rules around the breeding and owning of dogs. As it stands they need to be kept in appauling conditions before ANYTHING can be done. So sad

I'm always on facebook posting about how much fun I have training and walking and playing with my dogs, posting links to training sites, puppy mill info etc etc etc. I have 400 odd friends so hopefully some of it might rub off on a few of them, and in turn they might then rub off on a few others. One can only hope.

[Staranais]

She drew very thought provoking conclusions about how humans are being more and more detached from animals and nature in general - hence a danger in future is that our future legislators who have no understanding of animals are the ones who will be making the decisions about rules and regulations regarding dogs / dairy / piggeries etc........ Now isnt that a scary thought....?

I'm not sure if I 100% buy that.

In my experience, it's often the farmers and farm workers who object to new legislation promoting animal welfare, and the "ignorant townies" who are pushing such legislation through. Remember that it's chicken farmers who invented battery egg cages, and pork farmers who invented sow crates, and it's members of the ("townie" "greenie") public who are now campaigning for these things to be made illegal. Legislation compelling the use of pain control for castration in calves, improved pain control for antler velveting in deers, and banning farmers from inducing the birth of premature dairy calves, has also been opposed by farming lobbies in NZ who claim that the soft townies and vets just don't understand that these are just animals.

Let me say now that I know that some farmers are great to their stock, and I have personally worked with some ethical, wonderful farmers, people who I would now count as friends. But in my time working on dairy and sheep/beef farms, I've also seen some really nasty things. I have worked with milkers who would break cows tails when they were "naughty", while the boss turned a blind eye. I have worked for a farmer who left a cow in a ditch with a broken leg for 2 days before going out to shoot her (he only bothered to go out after my vet student friend threatened to call the vet herself if he didn't). Another vet student friend of mine was there to help clean up the aftermath of a farmer breaking a cow's pelvis in two places while attempting to pull an overly large calf out of her with a tractor (the vet quote for a caesarian was apparently too expensive).

These people weren't detached from their stock. They were just blind to the suffering. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt.

I stress again that some farmers are great to their stock, and most are OK to them. But members of any industry are often reluctant to enforce any code of conduct that eats into their own profit margin, or requires them to battle more red tape. I'm not sure the farming industry would do a great job of policing themselves without input from "soft" townies. Townies might not know much about the practicalities of farming, but they do look at the industry through a fresh set of eyes and ask questions that some farmers might avoid asking themselves.

That's my 2 cents, anyway.

[Jed]

Staranais

These people weren't detached from their stock. They were just blind to the suffering. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt.

Understand what you are saying. I've seen similar things myself and been appalled. Lots of farmers don't recognize that animals feel pain, or are sentient beings, and legislation needs to encourage this, as education doesn't seem to work. It's difficult to overcome beliefs which have been in the population for generations. I could extrapolate on that, but I think you know what I mean.

I read what Alpha Bet said about Temple Grandin

She drew very thought provoking conclusions about how humans are being more and more detached from animals and nature in general - hence a danger in future is that our future legislators who have no understanding of animals are the ones who will be making the decisions about rules and regulations regarding dogs / dairy / piggeries etc........ Now isnt that a scary thought....?

and I agree. We see it in legislation where a lobby group encourages legislation which fits their particular tenet, but is not good over all for whatever class of animal it covers. Example would be the POCTA act in Victoria. Some of those regulations were drawn up by people with good intentions, but nfi.

I do believe that we are getting too far from nature, and too detached from animals, so I agree with what she said.

[The Spotted Devil]

Staranais

These people weren't detached from their stock. They were just blind to the suffering. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt.

Understand what you are saying. I've seen similar things myself and been appalled. Lots of farmers don't recognize that animals feel pain, or are sentient beings, and legislation needs to encourage this, as education doesn't seem to work. It's difficult to overcome beliefs which have been in the population for generations. I could extrapolate on that, but I think you know what I mean.

Hi Jed

The good news is that education DOES work and the science is there to prove it. My research group (particularly my supervisor and his colleagues) have done a LOT of work in this regard in the pig industry, dairy cow and poultry and are world leaders. It's based on the link between human attitudes and behaviour - if you correctly identity the attitudes and beliefs (not easy!), you can actually change them and the behaviour. There is now an education package for pig farmers promoting exactly that and I imagine it will be applied to other industries. My PhD is extending that work to dogs.

I read what Alpha Bet said about Temple Grandin

She drew very thought provoking conclusions about how humans are being more and more detached from animals and nature in general - hence a danger in future is that our future legislators who have no understanding of animals are the ones who will be making the decisions about rules and regulations regarding dogs / dairy / piggeries etc........ Now isnt that a scary thought....?

and I agree. We see it in legislation where a lobby group encourages legislation which fits their particular tenet, but is not good over all for whatever class of animal it covers. Example would be the POCTA act in Victoria. Some of those regulations were drawn up by people with good intentions, but nfi.

I do believe that we are getting too far from nature, and too detached from animals, so I agree with what she said.

Temple Grandin is a fascinating person and I was lucky enough to see her speak in Melbourne last year - I don't always agree with her either but she is most insightful and really does get you thinking. Sounds like a great conference!!!

[Diva]

Temple Grandin has written a number of books, 3 or 4 that I can recall. I don't always agree with everything she says but she has some wonderful insights. I'm jealous of your conference!

[Bully]

I really enjoyed her book "Animals In Translation"

[Lablover]

She drew very thought provoking conclusions about how humans are being more and more detached from animals and nature in general - hence a danger in future is that our future legislators who have no understanding of animals are the ones who will be making the decisions about rules and regulations regarding dogs / dairy / piggeries etc........ Now isnt that a scary thought....?

Yes, small minded burb mentality is a worry.

Mind you she is American, and a functioning autistic...good for her..she probably , due to her disability or is it ABILITY, can think like a dog. Which I so try to do.

After all most science, art etc changers are gifted but not main stream.

[corvus]

Temple Grandin is one of my heroes. She's the one that said "The worst thing you can do to an animal is make it feel afraid." which instantly became my mantra for working with and around animals. Her website provided me with the final few pieces of the puzzle I needed to start training my hare. Without her descriptions of training antelopes and Bison I'd probably still be fumbling around trying to figure out how to reward my hare.

I am currently reading her book "Animals in Translation" after it being on my "to buy" list for years. I find it simultaneously brilliant and irritating. I'm so not autistic, but I do notice most of the things she claims only autistic people notice. I notice them because I watch where animals are looking when their behaviour changes. I don't need to see the world like an animal to see where an animal is looking. I certainly do appreciate her insights, though. I really don't see the world the way she does, and I love having a radically different perspective. What I love even more is finding where the differences and parallels lie. I'm fascinated that I sometimes came to the same conclusion as her via a quite wildly different path.

My workmate has met her in person twice and likes to taunt me with the fact that he was allowed to touch her the second time. Of course, I am insanely jealous.

[CareyJ]

It also doesnt help that humans are also being detached from one another as well as animals and nature.

[alpha bet]

Spoke with a couple of friends (who have kids with autism) once I got back from the conference and mentioned about Temple. Both were going out to read some of her books perhaps to get an insight into the minds of their own kids.

What surprised me was how both of them had taken their kids to various doctors when they were young and eventually sent to 'specialists' who then diagnosed autism - asburgers?. Once they were diagnosed that was basically the end of any medical interest, apart from being referred to a paediatrician regarding their physical development.

Both sets of parents were left to sort things out for themselves - no support groups - no special schooling advice or anything. Both these sets of parents (are unknown to each other) and yet they both seem to have been to their own devises. One has a child who is about 11 and she has been warned that as her boy hits pubity watch out. The other child again a boy about 15 is driving his parents to their wits end. The boy is getting violent and the parents are getting scared.

I guess I was of the 'ignorant' understanding that once a condition was diagnosed then some support was on offer and special schooling might be offered. But these autistic kids end up in classes usually without teacher aids or without teachers getting any special training. Pretty scary thought to think there are plenty of kids like this out there without any support or understanding - how are they going to be when they grow up.

I met some families in Texas that had sold up and moved to have their kids near the program that Temple helps to oversee - They treated Temple as almost a form of religion and some of the kids just sat transfixed by her. Have to say I found her facinating to listen to and a very unusual women to meet - she was able to recognise my accent and placed me as from Melbourne - pretty good party trick aye....

[m-j]

Once they were diagnosed that was basically the end of any medical interest, apart from being referred to a paediatrician regarding their physical development.

Both sets of parents were left to sort things out for themselves - no support groups - no special schooling advice or anything. Both these sets of parents (are unknown to each other) and yet they both seem to have been to their own devises. One has a child who is about 11 and she has been warned that as her boy hits pubity watch out. The other child again a boy about 15 is driving his parents to their wits end. The boy is getting violent and the parents are getting scared.

That is terrible my son was diagnosed at eight and his primary school and the high school he goes to are fantastic (I originally got the diagnosis because I wanted to find out why the primary school were having trouble teaching him)I actually taught him stuff the same methods I use on my dogs because it worked so basically I didn't have many problems even though at that stage I didn't know he had Aspergers. The psychiatrist we went and saw told me just to keep going the way I was. The high school listened to me when I explained some of the strategies we were using and he is doing very well.

Another good resource for them is any books by a guy called Tony Attwood he is renowned throughout the world as an Aspie guru. He is in Australia and I think based in Brisbane (but don't quote me on that). He actually got the faces put on the Thomas the Tank Engine trains to assist Autistic kids to recognise facial expressions I have been told. He does seminars all over the place and he does have a website. Violence can be an issue with Aspies and something that needs careful management. Another option is contacting any department that deals with disabilities or Autism, possibly found in the front of your phone book.

My son does have a repore with dogs and is very switched on to them and how they feel which surprised me due to his indifference to them, he doesn't have the same skill with people. Even my boss at the kennels I work at, has noticed. Funnily enough most of the time he finds my dogs annoying but they adore him.

cheers

M-J