Trialling And Eye Contact

[Prydenjoy]

Do you lose points for maintaining eye contact with your dog in a trial? We have our first trial next weekend and I just can't seem to function without eye contact! But was told I'm not meant to be looking at the dog, rather should look directly ahead. I really struggle with it, as eye contact is one of my most loved things in obedience.

[Seita]

I think it depends on the judge and also the state. I think some states are more lenient on this, whereas in QLD you would be heavily docked for continuously looking at your dog.

[dogdude]

Most judges would consider it as a double signal, I would suspect.

Focus is important, but you need to progress to a "one way focus", with your dog.

Get someone to take footage of you if you want to completely analise your work. Use a helper to mark one way focus.

When trialling, you can get away with just focusing forward a few metres, and you can still see a fair bit using your periphial vision.

[Seita]

When trialling, you can get away with just focusing forward a few metres, and you can still see a fair bit using your periphial vision.

This is what I do, rather than have my head up and looking dead straight ahead I keep it at about a 45 degree angle looking at the ground a few metres ahead this way I can keep an eye on where my dog is without making direct eye contact.

[Prydenjoy]

Thanks, I think I'm going to need a whole lot more re training than Berri!

[TerraNik]

When trialling, you can get away with just focusing forward a few metres, and you can still see a fair bit using your periphial vision.

This is what I do, rather than have my head up and looking dead straight ahead I keep it at about a 45 degree angle looking at the ground a few metres ahead this way I can keep an eye on where my dog is without making direct eye contact.

I do this too... Plus, if I was looking at my dog, I'd probably trip over!

[Ptolomy]

It was really noticeable last year when I trialled in Victoria and watched the Top Dog run off that a couple of handlers appeared to have no connection with their dog whatsoever and it was because they stared straight ahead not even acknowledging that their dog existed.

[Prydenjoy]

I went to a CCD judge training thing and we were a "guinea pig" for the judges, the feed back was that Berri would have only lost one or two points, but I would have lost heaps! I'm nervous, I don't want to fail him! This was after 3 months of no formal training (xmas break), at the shelter grounds (where he'd never been before... Except once when he dug out of the yard!) with dogs barking at us non stop. It was my first attempt doing anything with Berri with no food around, so the fact he blitzed it was incredible - I love the sweet little thing, what a champ!

Edited April 3, 2010 by Jeanne

[mmoo]

Hi, being a Vic trialler of few years experince, I feel that if you have to drop your head and have constant eye to eye contact with your dog it shauld be condsidered a double signal. When you enter the trial ring you should have complete confidence in your dog that it will do as you bid with either voice or hand signal without the double backup of you eyeballing your dog all around the trial ring.To me there is nothing worse, than seeing a handler looking at their dog when they should have complete confidence that the dog will do as they indicate.

[bedazzledx2]

I agree that handlers eyeballing their dogs the whole round is not a pretty look but as Seita said you can look ahead and keep your dog in your peripheral vision. I don't like to see handlers marching around with no apparent connection to their dogs as Ptolomy mentioned. Its all a matter of degree.

Hi, being a Vic trialler of few years experince, I feel that if you have to drop your head and have constant eye to eye contact with your dog it shauld be condsidered a double signal. When you enter the trial ring you should have complete confidence in your dog that it will do as you bid with either voice or hand signal without the double backup of you eyeballing your dog all around the trial ring.To me there is nothing worse, than seeing a handler looking at their dog when they should have complete confidence that the dog will do as they indicate.

[mmoo]

The degree is there, it is just that at that high level you usually have a (degree) of confidence in your dog that enables you direct your dog without even using your peripheral vision, I had that experince on Easter Saturday my little Munsterlander only lost 3 points in the heeling, if anyone asked me where I lost my points I couldn't tell them.

[Prydenjoy]

The eye contact thing I think started because I'm a high feedback, excitable trainer. I love to heel around and he's looking me right in the eye as if to say "Am I doing good??". Very cute

What about your left hand, does it matter where that is? I recently watched people heeling, and they held their hand at their waist instead of just letting it dangle. Is that a double signal?

[bedazzledx2]

Left hand....depends on the size of your dog but generally people hold their left hand at the waist or hip simply so that it doesn't interfere with the dog. This is for obedience trials. It is not considered an extra signal unless you move it around. I have seen clips on You Tube in working trials where they have both hands at their sides but I think this is for Schutzhund.

The eye contact thing I think started because I'm a high feedback, excitable trainer. I love to heel around and he's looking me right in the eye as if to say "Am I doing good??". Very cute

What about your left hand, does it matter where that is? I recently watched people heeling, and they held their hand at their waist instead of just letting it dangle. Is that a double signal?

[huski]

Apparently some judges in QLD don't like the hand on the hip. But that's what I tend to do. I think the general rule is your hands can be at your side or at your middle or you can have one on your hip as long as you don't move them (unless giving a signal).

[Tiggy]

I assume from watching Patty Ruzzo that in the US you can either have your left arm at your side or at your waist. I tend to hold mine lower at my hip, I have short dogs . I also noticed watching Patty Ruzzo that there hands have to be at their sides for recalls , like our way better.

[bedazzledx2]

Goodness me!!! I do wonder about different states sometimes!!!! Its a little blue book that is supposed to be the same for all states put out by the ANKC. No where does it say you can't have your hand on your hip. I'm not shooting the messenger here but it can be a concern.

Apparently some judges in QLD don't like the hand on the hip. But that's what I tend to do. I think the general rule is your hands can be at your side or at your middle or you can have one on your hip as long as you don't move them (unless giving a signal).

[J...]

It was really noticeable last year when I trialled in Victoria and watched the Top Dog run off that a couple of handlers appeared to have no connection with their dog whatsoever and it was because they stared straight ahead not even acknowledging that their dog existed.

This is the way I've been taught - pick a fence post (or similar non-moving object) and head for it, more worried about straight lines than anything else. I hate it - you have no idea if your dog is still with you or whether they stopped 10 m ago for a sniff. I've been told "don't worry about that, the judge will stop you and tell you to call your dog if that happens"

I've been working on trying to do the same thing Seita has mentioned so I can keep some connection with my dog. I need to be more consistant with it as I lost 4 points in my first CD trial for looking at my dog.

[gsdog2]

Goodness me!!! I do wonder about different states sometimes!!!! Its a little blue book that is supposed to be the same for all states put out by the ANKC. No where does it say you can't have your hand on your hip. I'm not shooting the messenger here but it can be a concern.

Apparently some judges in QLD don't like the hand on the hip. But that's what I tend to do. I think the general rule is your hands can be at your side or at your middle or you can have one on your hip as long as you don't move them (unless giving a signal).

It's not something I've heard of (and I'm SE Qld). The only thing I've been told is no matter where you choose to have your hand you should keep that position for the whole ring workout ie. don't let your hand swing one minute and then hold it to your waist the next minute as this could be seen as a double signal

[OSoSwift]

I alos love the connection I have with my dogs, Rommi isn't worried about constant eye contact, Lewis loves it and he looks at me with such adoration I can't help but look back - If only my husband looked at me like that!

[bedazzledx2]

That's exactly how I see it too and that's how I judge it

Goodness me!!! I do wonder about different states sometimes!!!! Its a little blue book that is supposed to be the same for all states put out by the ANKC. No where does it say you can't have your hand on your hip. I'm not shooting the messenger here but it can be a concern.

Apparently some judges in QLD don't like the hand on the hip. But that's what I tend to do. I think the general rule is your hands can be at your side or at your middle or you can have one on your hip as long as you don't move them (unless giving a signal).

It's not something I've heard of (and I'm SE Qld). The only thing I've been told is no matter where you choose to have your hand you should keep that position for the whole ring workout ie. don't let your hand swing one minute and then hold it to your waist the next minute as this could be seen as a double signal