Dog Attack -> Potential Bsl Convert

[Zug Zug]

I don't know any true dog lovers referring to any other dogs "as things", like the OP

Wrong. Most people who have been in an attack would use that word. I would have. It's based on fear.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

Well choose whatever you want thats your problem.

My view is not typical of someone that has owned a DA dog, if there is such a thing. You have no idea how far you have got me wrong. Too much projecting and assuming, not enough listening and thinking.

[Jed]

Of course the OP should be able to take her pup to an off lead park. People who frequent off lead parks need to be responsible, and not let their dogs rush or attack other dogs.

If the owners can't control them, they shouldn't be at an off lead park.

LoPan

The OP, instead of looking at what she could improve, the foremost thought in her mind is how wrong the other person is and what her breed of dog is. Am I the only one around this place that can see anything wrong with that ?

The OP is wrong, but probably justified in her comments about breed bans. And the fact is, the other person WAS wrong. How can you blame the owner of the attacked dog? Lay the responsibility where it belongs -- on the attacking dog.

Which, by the way, had done the same thing before. What the hell was it doing off leash?

It's the responsibility of other park users to report non-sociable dogs, and the responsibility of the council to take care of the problem.

There are way too many unsocialised, badly trained, badly behaved dogs with useless owners, and those are the ones which are contributing to further breed bans. No matter what the breed.

I was bitten by a dacshund once (not mine), and the Corgi which lived next door was the most savage dog I've ever seen. I'm wary of dobermanns and GSD, but I don't think any of those dogs should be banned. Stupid owners should be slapped with fines though.

[blacklabrador]

Well choose whatever you want thats your problem.

My view is not typical of someone that has owned a DA dog, if there is such a thing. You have no idea how far you have got me wrong. Too much projecting and assuming, not enough listening and thinking.

I'm still listening to hear what the real solution to the problem is. Not letting dogs offleash outside their own yard is not a solution.

I'm thinking that you don't acutally have a real solution.

So there you go - plenty of listening and thinking happening.

Edited April 2, 2010 by blacklabrador

[kyliegirl]

you do realise that supporting bsl means that the dobermann would also eventually be placed on the bsl list. It is already listed in some countries even though there is very few reported attacks by the breed.

I dont support bsl because it can easily be abused and taken advantage of, it isn't a solution.

[mantis]

I don't know any true dog lovers referring to any other dogs "as things", like the OP

Wrong. Most people who have been in an attack would use that word. I would have. It's based on fear.

But the OP used that word in describing any other dog they have come in contact with, not just the attacking dog in the OP, go back & read all their posts.

By the way, my dog is affected by BSL, he has been attacked 3 times by off lead dogs, twice by the same breed who were bigger than him & once by a smaller dog, everytime he was attacked, all he did was knock them down & hold them, never once inflicting bites on the attackers, despite the attackers biting him, as soon as the owners came to get their dogs, my dog let them go. Want to guess what the owners of the attacking dogs said? My dog shouldn't be out in public, despite the fact he was on lead & doing nothing wrong, except protecting himself.

OH & one of the larger dogs that attacked him, actually bit me while I was holding Kenny to make sure he didn't bite back, I ended up in hospital with 21 stitches in my leg, the moron owner went to the council the next day & reported me & my dog, after talking to me & assessing my dogs temperament, he asked me if I wanted to lay a complaint on the moron who owned the other dog, I said no because of his breed, I could see the media getting hold of it & my dog being made the villian.

Deed not breed people.

[Longcoat]

Well choose whatever you want thats your problem.

My view is not typical of someone that has owned a DA dog, if there is such a thing. You have no idea how far you have got me wrong. Too much projecting and assuming, not enough listening and thinking.

I'm still listening to hear what the real solution to the problem is. Not letting dogs offleash outside their own yard is not a solution.

I'm thinking that you don't acutally have a real solution.

So there you go - plenty of listening and thinking happening.

Lo Pan has advised to be aware of off leash parks for the obvious reasons which makes perfect sense. The solution provided is not to visit off leash parks and avoid the associated risks. Why is that not sound advice???

[blacklabrador]

Well choose whatever you want thats your problem.

My view is not typical of someone that has owned a DA dog, if there is such a thing. You have no idea how far you have got me wrong. Too much projecting and assuming, not enough listening and thinking.

I'm still listening to hear what the real solution to the problem is. Not letting dogs offleash outside their own yard is not a solution.

I'm thinking that you don't acutally have a real solution.

So there you go - plenty of listening and thinking happening.

Lo Pan has advised to be aware of off leash parks for the obvious reasons which makes perfect sense. The solution provided is not to visit off leash parks and avoid the associated risks. Why is that not sound advice???

Perhaps you didn't read his posts?

He has said that any attack that happens to your dog in an offleash park is the fault of the owner of the attacked dog for taking it to the park. He has recommended not to take dogs to offleash areas at all. It isn't sound advice because it's not an option for some people who have nowhere else for their dog to run.

We are all "aware" that there is some risk. The point is that we need to weigh up the risks and try to provide a balanced lifestyle for our dogs. One of my dogs in particular just loves the surf and I love watching him throw himself into the waves to fetch a stick. Under Lo Pan's advice I could never ever do this with him again. How is that sound or even remotely practical advice? MOST of the time my dogs don't get attacked (just like most of the time I drive I don't have an accident). Where are people to take their dogs to run if they can't take them to an offleash area? Our yards are getting smaller. What's the practical and sound solution?

[Longcoat]

Well choose whatever you want thats your problem.

My view is not typical of someone that has owned a DA dog, if there is such a thing. You have no idea how far you have got me wrong. Too much projecting and assuming, not enough listening and thinking.

I'm still listening to hear what the real solution to the problem is. Not letting dogs offleash outside their own yard is not a solution.

I'm thinking that you don't acutally have a real solution.

So there you go - plenty of listening and thinking happening.

Lo Pan has advised to be aware of off leash parks for the obvious reasons which makes perfect sense. The solution provided is not to visit off leash parks and avoid the associated risks. Why is that not sound advice???

Perhaps you didn't read his posts?

He has said that any attack that happens to your dog in an offleash park is the fault of the owner of the attacked dog for taking it to the park. He has recommended not to take dogs to offleash areas at all. It isn't sound advice because it's not an option for some people who have nowhere else for their dog to run.

We are all "aware" that there is some risk. The point is that we need to weigh up the risks and try to provide a balanced lifestyle for our dogs. One of my dogs in particular just loves the surf and I love watching him throw himself into the waves to fetch a stick. Under Lo Pan's advice I could never ever do this with him again. How is that sound or even remotely practical advice? MOST of the time my dogs don't get attacked (just like most of the time I drive I don't have an accident). Where are people to take their dogs to run if they can't take them to an offleash area? Our yards are getting smaller. What's the practical and sound solution?

Lo Pan was talking about taking 11 week old puppies to off leash parks in reference to the thread I thought???. My GSD can be aggressive towards strange dog's with attitude or dogs that rush at him and I wouldn't let him off leash at a designated dog park for that reason with other dogs around. I let him off leash to run in areas or times that other dogs are not in close proximity and leash him if other off leash dogs are heading our way. Same at the beach, just pick your spots and times.

[newfsie]

I do think an owner would have trouble getting a large breed off another dog, but, I do think the dog itself would have better luck with a huge, slow newf over a pittbull. I was thinking about it more today, and thinking about all the dogs who have tried to attack my puppy so far. There were a few small things, which we all just ignored, there was the labrador yesterday at lunch which wouldn't stop barking at him but who knows how far it would have taken it, and then about a week ago, there were 2 large staffy type dogs. They were on a lead, but pulling out in front, lunging at my dog. I say large because I thought staffies were only meant to be about 20kg, and these ones were definitely larger than that. There are a couple of gsds in my area, all very well behaved. There is a rottie who is also well-behaved. I don't know. In my area at least, all the incompetent owners seem to own the small fluffy things, and the bully breeds. Looking out the window this morning, another large staffy looking thing, pulling out in front of its owner on the walk.

lunging to attack or just to check out your dog?

and does a lunging /pulling dog on a lead make them aggressive??

cos its no often that my sibe isnt pulling on her lead but its not cos shes aggressive..........

and because shes doing that does it make me incompetent and a bad owner??

No I have noticed that at dog training, some lunge to want to meet and greet............i won't let it happen, because when i have two newfs with me I cannot afford for them to lunge. i would be flat on my face. So we never let our dogs "straight-line" us and pull.

I can also tell you when a newf is in full fight mode it is not slow.....There are many fit newfs around like mine, who do agility. And it was almost impossible to pull our rescau newf off, when she was in full fight mode. Hubby still has the scars. I think any large dog in full attack mode is scary, whether it be newf, St. bernard, Rottie, GSD, or pitbull type. It all starts with the owner. it just seems some of the not so good owners go for a certain type of dog.

I just hope the pup will do well after all these different attacks it seems to be getting.

And I am also of the School who thinks socialization is important in the early weeks, We took our nine week old newfy pup to obedience to meet and greet some of the well socialized dogs in our advanced classes. And newfy puppies are far to heavy to carry for long. We have done this with all our pups for the last thirty years. i must admit that the dogs at the Kennel Club are most likely all vaccinated. I just find that period so important. But again the dogs are all under control and known to us, well behaved trained dogs..........

[blacklabrador]

Well choose whatever you want thats your problem.

My view is not typical of someone that has owned a DA dog, if there is such a thing. You have no idea how far you have got me wrong. Too much projecting and assuming, not enough listening and thinking.

I'm still listening to hear what the real solution to the problem is. Not letting dogs offleash outside their own yard is not a solution.

I'm thinking that you don't acutally have a real solution.

So there you go - plenty of listening and thinking happening.

Lo Pan has advised to be aware of off leash parks for the obvious reasons which makes perfect sense. The solution provided is not to visit off leash parks and avoid the associated risks. Why is that not sound advice???

Perhaps you didn't read his posts?

He has said that any attack that happens to your dog in an offleash park is the fault of the owner of the attacked dog for taking it to the park. He has recommended not to take dogs to offleash areas at all. It isn't sound advice because it's not an option for some people who have nowhere else for their dog to run.

We are all "aware" that there is some risk. The point is that we need to weigh up the risks and try to provide a balanced lifestyle for our dogs. One of my dogs in particular just loves the surf and I love watching him throw himself into the waves to fetch a stick. Under Lo Pan's advice I could never ever do this with him again. How is that sound or even remotely practical advice? MOST of the time my dogs don't get attacked (just like most of the time I drive I don't have an accident). Where are people to take their dogs to run if they can't take them to an offleash area? Our yards are getting smaller. What's the practical and sound solution?

Lo Pan was talking about taking 11 week old puppies to off leash parks in reference to the thread I thought???. My GSD can be aggressive towards strange dog's with attitude or dogs that rush at him and I wouldn't let him off leash at a designated dog park for that reason with other dogs around. I let him off leash to run in areas or times that other dogs are not in close proximity and leash him if other off leash dogs are heading our way. Same at the beach, just pick your spots and times.

Lo Pans' quotes applied generally and not just to puppies.

"Dogs are NOT supposed to run around together and socialize. This is a fantasy dreamed up by some in society today. Dogs are said to be social in the sense that in the wild they run in packs, it does not mean strange dogs "socializing". By taking the dog and allowing it to be exposed to an offleash situation with other dogs you are putting it at risk.

Now i'm not saying don't do it, i'm just saying do not blame others if there is a problem. In combination with the nature of dogs, we also know that irresponsible owners are frequent, so there should be no ground for complaining if your dog is attacked at an offleash park the risks are clear."

Really you shouldn't be taking your GSD off lead if it has issues. If a puppy rushes up to it you could find yourself in a horrible situation. You can't be aware of every dog in the vicinity and the young, immature dogs who find it a game to run a kilometre from their hysterically chasing owner is pretty much the same dog who will delight in bowling up to your dog. I feel completely responsible in taking my dogs to a dog park because none of them have aggression issues and I trust them as much as anybody could ever trust a dog. ETA My older dogs have no hesitation in growling and snapping at a young dog to put it in its place but that is as far as it goes - I actually use them to help teach pups manners when my friends get new puppies.

Edited April 2, 2010 by blacklabrador

[huski]

lunging to attack or just to check out your dog?

and does a lunging /pulling dog on a lead make them aggressive??

cos its no often that my sibe isnt pulling on her lead but its not cos shes aggressive..........

and because shes doing that does it make me incompetent and a bad owner??

I agree that pulling or lunging on the leash does not always equate with aggression, my beagle can lunge on the leash if she picks up a scent and she is far from aggressive.

I do think that a dog pulling on the leash and lunging to get to greet another dog can be bad manners in doggy language and some dogs can find it intimidating or rude for a dog to be lunging at it even in eagerness.

And being on the other end of the leash, pulling on the lead is my biggest pet hate (pardon the pun) as an owner. I hate having my armed pulled out of its socket so I spend a lot of time training my dogs to have nice leash manners. That's just my preference though, some people don't seem to be as bothered by it.

Edited April 2, 2010 by huski

[blacklabrador]

i must admit that the dogs at the Kennel Club are most likely all vaccinated.

OT

Newfsie - it's completely a personal decision but the danger of parvo lies much more in the ground than it does in other dogs. Socialising a puppy with vaccinated adults may be giving you a false sense of security as the ground can harbour parvo for several years (ten I believe). Most obedience grounds are free-for-all grassy areas which are frequented by offlead neighbourhood or stray dogs at other times.

I know when I got my first puppy I took him to the beach at 9 weeks thinking that parvo couldn't survive on the surface sand after the sun and the salt water etc. I later used to date a veterinary epidemiologist who let me know how wrong I was! Parvo is so extremely hardy that the beach is also a great place to pick it up unfortunately.

[Leithy]

I don't blame you for overreacting- for a long time after I was attacked and bitten I tended to be wary of medium-large sized dogs, but I've since read about body language with dogs and I can gather which ones are wary and which ones are friendly. Even so I find it hard to keep my heart rate down when I see a dog thats rushes, I think it's the adrenaline rush

And in Sydney too it's going to be hard to find a place to exercise your lil' Dobe. I find myself lucky that I am in a small country town and know where all the bad dogs are, including the ones across the road that I've seen attack children and elderly ladies, to find that the council does nothing. But in this case if she's be threatened with confiscation and STILL breaks the rules then enough is enough. She KNOWS what the dog is like and has not changed their behaviour. Soemthings NEEDS to be done.

There is always going to be a risk when you walk your dog simply because you never know whats out there. Good on you for wanting to socialise your dog, and it sounds like the way you've trained her so far with strangers and kids is fantastic. If more owners were like you, there would be less of these attacks out there.

[Longcoat]

Well choose whatever you want thats your problem.

My view is not typical of someone that has owned a DA dog, if there is such a thing. You have no idea how far you have got me wrong. Too much projecting and assuming, not enough listening and thinking.

I'm still listening to hear what the real solution to the problem is. Not letting dogs offleash outside their own yard is not a solution.

I'm thinking that you don't acutally have a real solution.

So there you go - plenty of listening and thinking happening.

Lo Pan has advised to be aware of off leash parks for the obvious reasons which makes perfect sense. The solution provided is not to visit off leash parks and avoid the associated risks. Why is that not sound advice???

Perhaps you didn't read his posts?

He has said that any attack that happens to your dog in an offleash park is the fault of the owner of the attacked dog for taking it to the park. He has recommended not to take dogs to offleash areas at all. It isn't sound advice because it's not an option for some people who have nowhere else for their dog to run.

We are all "aware" that there is some risk. The point is that we need to weigh up the risks and try to provide a balanced lifestyle for our dogs. One of my dogs in particular just loves the surf and I love watching him throw himself into the waves to fetch a stick. Under Lo Pan's advice I could never ever do this with him again. How is that sound or even remotely practical advice? MOST of the time my dogs don't get attacked (just like most of the time I drive I don't have an accident). Where are people to take their dogs to run if they can't take them to an offleash area? Our yards are getting smaller. What's the practical and sound solution?

Lo Pan was talking about taking 11 week old puppies to off leash parks in reference to the thread I thought???. My GSD can be aggressive towards strange dog's with attitude or dogs that rush at him and I wouldn't let him off leash at a designated dog park for that reason with other dogs around. I let him off leash to run in areas or times that other dogs are not in close proximity and leash him if other off leash dogs are heading our way. Same at the beach, just pick your spots and times.

Lo Pans' quotes applied generally and not just to puppies.

"Dogs are NOT supposed to run around together and socialize. This is a fantasy dreamed up by some in society today. Dogs are said to be social in the sense that in the wild they run in packs, it does not mean strange dogs "socializing". By taking the dog and allowing it to be exposed to an offleash situation with other dogs you are putting it at risk.

Now i'm not saying don't do it, i'm just saying do not blame others if there is a problem. In combination with the nature of dogs, we also know that irresponsible owners are frequent, so there should be no ground for complaining if your dog is attacked at an offleash park the risks are clear."

Really you shouldn't be taking your GSD off lead if it has issues. If a puppy rushes up to it you could find yourself in a horrible situation. You can't be aware of every dog in the vicinity and the young, immature dogs who find it a game to run a kilometre from their hysterically chasing owner is pretty much the same dog who will delight in bowling up to your dog. I feel completely responsible in taking my dogs to a dog park because none of them have aggression issues and I trust them as much as anybody could ever trust a dog. ETA My older dogs have no hesitation in growling and snapping at a young dog to put it in its place but that is as far as it goes - I actually use them to help teach pups manners when my friends get new puppies.

In a general dog park, you wouldn't know most of them..............you are obviously talking about arranged meets with friends which is a much different situation. When the general public turn up to a place and randomly let their dogs off leash, you have no idea which dogs may react aggressively, by then it could be too late. The OP didn't know the owner of the dog who attacked her puppy or know the temperament of the dogs present. That's more how I take Lo Pan's posts

Edited April 2, 2010 by Longcoat

[hortfurball]

I don't usually play 'name the breed' but in the interests of showing the diversity of attacking dog breeds, may I add:

jack russell

rottweiler

ACD

another BC

another lab

various mixed breeds

and a pair of saint bernards acting in tandem

Holy Dooley, I can imagine a pair of aggresive Saint Bernards would be pretty damn scary ;)

Yes and no. The scary factor came from their sheer size and weight and because I knew it meant I had buckley's chance of doing anything about it until the owner reached me, but when I glanced over (wondering what was taking her so long) and saw she had no intention of coming over but was just standing like a stunned mullet 20 odd metres away, I was more angry than scared, and after a few previous incidents, was a bit calmer about the whole situation, so was able to use a commanding tone to get one of them to back off. I was then waiting for my opportunity to get the boot in on the second one and get between them when Kuges sorted it out himself, thankfully.

As far as this incident with the "bully" type dog and BSL etc - I can only agree with the majority of others that there is no such thing as a bad breed - only bad owners. Any dog can be dog/people aggressive if it is not raised correctly

I just have to say that sometimes some of us end up with DA dogs not because of being bad owners or raising our dogs incorrectly but because of bad experiences our dogs have had as youngsters. It is all too easy for a good dog to become a not so good dog through bad experiences unfortunately. I started out with two dogs who were absolutely fine with other dogs and through no fault of theirs or mine (except for the mishandling mentioned below), now they are both reactive with certain types of dogs. I am aware of which they will react to and which they won't so can have controlled one on one play dates but other than that, I see it as my duty as a responsible dog owner to never let them off leash in public, and even on leash, to take a wide berth around the type of dog that I believe might pose a problem.

Sorry to go OT

BUT Jules1 that puppy of yours in your sig is just gorgeous

I love Dobe puppies!

OT again but I agree. Jules1, I notice you're in Perth - don't forget to check out the social events sub-forum so we Perthies can all meet that adorable creature!

Uncontrolled socialisation means you cannot keep the experiences positive. However no socialisation isn't a good thing either.

I agree. Unfortunately the information wasn't as readily available when Kuges was a youngster (no internet) and I made the mistake of not taking him outside my place until after all his vaccinations. Puppy preschool wasn't even heard of back then. This probably made him more susceptible to the influence of his early bad experiences, as he didn't have the good ones to back it up.

Remember too that you might be communicating your fear to your puppy, unintentionally.

I think I did this, which also didn't help. We live and learn.

Edited April 2, 2010 by hortfurball

[jules1]

Sorry to go OT

BUT Jules1 that puppy of yours in your sig is just gorgeous

I love Dobe puppies!

OT again but I agree. Jules1, I notice you're in Perth - don't forget to check out the social events sub-forum so we Perthies can all meet that adorable creature!

Will do - would be great to meet some Perthie DOLers and their furry friends.

Uncontrolled socialisation means you cannot keep the experiences positive. However no socialisation isn't a good thing either.

I agree. Unfortunately the information wasn't as readily available when Kuges was a youngster (no internet) and I made the mistake of not taking him outside my place until after all his vaccinations. Puppy preschool wasn't even heard of back then. This probably made him more susceptible to the influence of his early bad experiences, as he didn't have the good ones to back it up.

Remember too that you might be communicating your fear to your puppy, unintentionally.

I think I did this, which also didn't help. We live and learn.

I also think I am guilty of this....he is a bit wary of other dogs, and whenever we take him to the park or beach (more often the beach) - he is almost always the only dog on a leash and the other dogs there always come (or charge) up for a "sniff" and check him out. Not had any really bad experiences - a couple of the bigger dogs have done the "big paw on the head" type thing - but not aggressively, more playfully and ours just acts submissively around them and sits down. But I know whenever another dog comes charging up off leash (as most of them are big) my heart rate goes up and have been known to start babbling "good dog" over and over to both of them hoping things stay friendly until the other dog runs back to its owner!! I'm not at all scared of other dogs personally, and am usually very calm and confident if a strange dog comes up to me on my own - but I do feel a bit anxious when it happens with the puppy which I know he must pick up on - definitely something I need to work on. ;)

[blacklabrador]

Well choose whatever you want thats your problem.

My view is not typical of someone that has owned a DA dog, if there is such a thing. You have no idea how far you have got me wrong. Too much projecting and assuming, not enough listening and thinking.

I'm still listening to hear what the real solution to the problem is. ;) Not letting dogs offleash outside their own yard is not a solution.

I'm thinking that you don't acutally have a real solution.

So there you go - plenty of listening and thinking happening.

Lo Pan has advised to be aware of off leash parks for the obvious reasons which makes perfect sense. The solution provided is not to visit off leash parks and avoid the associated risks. Why is that not sound advice???

Perhaps you didn't read his posts?

He has said that any attack that happens to your dog in an offleash park is the fault of the owner of the attacked dog for taking it to the park. He has recommended not to take dogs to offleash areas at all. It isn't sound advice because it's not an option for some people who have nowhere else for their dog to run.

We are all "aware" that there is some risk. The point is that we need to weigh up the risks and try to provide a balanced lifestyle for our dogs. One of my dogs in particular just loves the surf and I love watching him throw himself into the waves to fetch a stick. Under Lo Pan's advice I could never ever do this with him again. How is that sound or even remotely practical advice? MOST of the time my dogs don't get attacked (just like most of the time I drive I don't have an accident). Where are people to take their dogs to run if they can't take them to an offleash area? Our yards are getting smaller. What's the practical and sound solution?

Lo Pan was talking about taking 11 week old puppies to off leash parks in reference to the thread I thought???. My GSD can be aggressive towards strange dog's with attitude or dogs that rush at him and I wouldn't let him off leash at a designated dog park for that reason with other dogs around. I let him off leash to run in areas or times that other dogs are not in close proximity and leash him if other off leash dogs are heading our way. Same at the beach, just pick your spots and times.

Lo Pans' quotes applied generally and not just to puppies.

"Dogs are NOT supposed to run around together and socialize. This is a fantasy dreamed up by some in society today. Dogs are said to be social in the sense that in the wild they run in packs, it does not mean strange dogs "socializing". By taking the dog and allowing it to be exposed to an offleash situation with other dogs you are putting it at risk.

Now i'm not saying don't do it, i'm just saying do not blame others if there is a problem. In combination with the nature of dogs, we also know that irresponsible owners are frequent, so there should be no ground for complaining if your dog is attacked at an offleash park the risks are clear."

Really you shouldn't be taking your GSD off lead if it has issues. If a puppy rushes up to it you could find yourself in a horrible situation. You can't be aware of every dog in the vicinity and the young, immature dogs who find it a game to run a kilometre from their hysterically chasing owner is pretty much the same dog who will delight in bowling up to your dog. I feel completely responsible in taking my dogs to a dog park because none of them have aggression issues and I trust them as much as anybody could ever trust a dog. ETA My older dogs have no hesitation in growling and snapping at a young dog to put it in its place but that is as far as it goes - I actually use them to help teach pups manners when my friends get new puppies.

In a general dog park, you wouldn't know most of them..............you are obviously talking about arranged meets with friends which is a much different situation. When the general public turn up to a place and randomly let their dogs off leash, you have no idea which dogs may react aggressively, by then it could be too late. The OP didn't know the owner of the dog who attacked her puppy or know the temperament of the dogs present. That's more how I take Lo Pan's posts

I am talking about general dog parks and beaches. Even the arranged DOL meets are held in these areas - you cannot book the area out and prevent other people turning up so the dogs are mixing with known and unknown dogs.

[Guest Tess32]

I can't agree it's purely deed not breed when it comes to DA. Some breeds are more likely to be dog aggressive than others, it's RESPONSIBLE to admit that. Yes, any breed can be dog aggressive, but I make no apologies for avoiding certain breeds when I have my own dog with me.

I am more likely to take the long way around any bull breed, any large muscular breed, Dalmations, Border Collies, Huskies, Mals, and various others.

[LisaB85]

Well, if we can only have our dogs off-leash in our own back-yards, than people in the eastern suburbs shouldn't be allowed to have dogs because most of us don't have huge back-yards. I do not think that we should not be able to use any of the parks in the area. I don't think an acceptable solution is to consider all the parks off-limits, even for the adult dogs? I don't want anything to happen to my puppy, but to me that's like saying, oh, better home school the kids, and put them in bubbles because they might get hurt?

I was not at all scared of the swf dogs yesterday, I was just angry at the owner. My own dog did not react, didn't whine or anything whilst they were barking and snarling at him. He stood behind me and waited, because, brownie points for me, he's now seen me handle these situations several times. I have confronted several dogs who have charged him, big and small, not always acting aggressively, but I don't consider that type of greeting acceptable.

The large staffies were also growling and barking staring way too intently at him. If I say they were behaving aggressively and pulling on the leash, give me some credit, I've had dogs for about 15 years, I know how to recognise aggression. You weren't given those facts, stop trying to be antagonistic. It's not helping anyone.

My anger is not directed at the dogs, it is completely at the owners. I called them things because I'm no breed expert, couldn't think of another word to substitute, and I wasn't about to start trying to claim to you guys that I could instantly recognise every breed I came across. Plus, to me, the breed is irrelevant in assessing whether a dog is likely to be aggressive or not.

The whole point I've been trying to make is not that some breeds are more aggressive than others. The point is that some breeds are much stronger than others, but for some reason, the bully breeds are publicly perceived as being smaller to medium size dogs and hence safe and convenient for first-time, non-prepared dog owners. Dobermans, GSDs, rotties etc are all undeniably large powerful breeds. People know they are buying a large powerful breed. For some reason, bully type breeds are insanely popular, as are the swf types. They can be similar in size. But unlike the swf types, they are also insanely powerful. Hence I thought after my experiences the other day that something needed to be done. There is currently no public education taking place. Pet shops continue to sell all manner of breeds to anyone. You tell me what should be done.

I am still taking my puppy to the park. I am still avoiding the heavily populated areas. I'm not changing because I didn't make the decision lightly in the first place; I did research, I spoke to different qualified people and so far I'm very happy with the results, because my puppy is doing so wonderfully and everyone remarks so. And before you all start freaking out, I tell everyone who says to the point of, oh dobermans look like a great breed - yes but only if you have the time and resources and are willing to devote them to extensive training. I do not mince words.

I am making every effort to train my puppy. He is very well socialised at this point, and I invite anyone and everyone to come and meet him and see for yourself. He greets other dogs and people very politely. He is curious, but not too forward. He knows a tonne of commands, and whilst he's unlikely to do them for strangers, he receives training every day and is very responsive to me.

I don't have any kids, maybe in another 5-10 years lol so no sports games to go to. But he goes for 3-4 walks every day and meets like 20 people and dogs.

I don't know what the solution here is, I only feel that it's unacceptable to do nothing.