Dog Attack -> Potential Bsl Convert

[huski]

Just to clarify - no ones saying don't take puppies out, more so that they should be kept out of dog parks and mostly carried around. I wouldn't say 'very very low risk' either. I think the reason we're not seeing parvo in those areas is because most dogs ARE vaccinated. It's not to say that the disease isn't out there. In fact I think people around this area have had titres come back with high parvo antibody levels, implying the dog has come into contact with the disease. So it is out there, its just that most dogs are vacc'd and most people with puppies follow the advice of keeping pups out of high risk areas until after their 12wk shot.

Agreed Stormie.

I always socialise my dogs as much as possible between 8-12 weeks and I take them out and about from when I first get them at eight weeks. But I wouldn't ever take them somewhere like a dog park for various reasons not just the higher chance of running into diseases there.

[blacklabrador]

I have!! And I think I may have done that unknowingly!!

;)

I find it very interesting!

Daisy isn't overly fussed with other dogs either so fortunately that means they aren't usually a big distraction when it comes to training. Definitely a plus!

She's just so food focussed that nothing else matters... where's the donuts Mum?

[huski]

She's just so food focussed that nothing else matters... where's the donuts Mum?

And if it's not donuts, it's ZOMG THERE IZ SCENTZ ON TEH GROUNDZ! ;)

[blacklabrador]

She's just so food focussed that nothing else matters... where's the donuts Mum?

And if it's not donuts, it's ZOMG THERE IZ SCENTZ ON TEH GROUNDZ! ;)

The other day I was throwing some treats to the dogs and one went off the verandah and landed on a section of roof. It was out of reach and there is a section of horizontal steel wires between the dogs and the roof. Dash laid down as close as he could possibly get to the treat and laid there licking the wires. All for the love of a scooby snack. That dog cracks me up. He also stole a packet of uncooked cous cous from the kitchen bench and ate it outside.

I dunno.. these food obsessed dogs will turn our hair grey!

[huski]

The other day I was throwing some treats to the dogs and one went off the verandah and landed on a section of roof. It was out of reach and there is a section of horizontal steel wires between the dogs and the roof. Dash laid down as close as he could possibly get to the treat and laid there licking the wires. All for the love of a scooby snack. That dog cracks me up. He also stole a packet of uncooked cous cous from the kitchen bench and ate it outside. ;)

I dunno.. these food obsessed dogs will turn our hair grey!

LOL, I think this is why it was so easy for me to train the scent discrimination exercise this last week. Food + being encouraged to smell = one very enthusiastic beagle.

Daisy has had her share of hysterical food moments too. Like the time a single cat biscuit got stuck behind a box in the book case. I don't know when it got stuck there or how, but one day Daisy walked past and caught a whiff of it and then realising she couldn't reach it threw herself on the ground hysterically barking and crying until I came along to see what was going on because I thought she was DYING... or something. No, she just knew there was a cat biscuit behind the box and couldn't reach it, which was obviously very traumatizing for her.

[percyk]

This is your fault to put it bluntly theres no other way to say it. You do not take puppies to offleash parks, period.

In my view if you take any dog to an offleash park and there is trouble then look in the mirror for who is to blame, but especially a puppy.

wow bit harsh

maybe you could say it a different way?

being blunt in these situations doesnt help

theres been enough trauma

no use chucking rotten fruit as well is there?

especially from the safety of an anonymous pc

educate by all means but be aware of how it is put to people who have just had a scare

[sas]

Isn't that just charming.....someone has their puppy attacked but they are the one in the wrong not the aggressive dog.

[Longcoat]

Isn't that just charming.....someone has their puppy attacked but they are the one in the wrong not the aggressive dog.

The bottom line really Sas, is not about right or wrong, it's about your puppy sustaining an injury or not. Prosecution and blame doesn't turn back the clock

[blacklabrador]

The other day I was throwing some treats to the dogs and one went off the verandah and landed on a section of roof. It was out of reach and there is a section of horizontal steel wires between the dogs and the roof. Dash laid down as close as he could possibly get to the treat and laid there licking the wires. All for the love of a scooby snack. That dog cracks me up. He also stole a packet of uncooked cous cous from the kitchen bench and ate it outside.

I dunno.. these food obsessed dogs will turn our hair grey!

LOL, I think this is why it was so easy for me to train the scent discrimination exercise this last week. Food + being encouraged to smell = one very enthusiastic beagle.

Daisy has had her share of hysterical food moments too. Like the time a single cat biscuit got stuck behind a box in the book case. I don't know when it got stuck there or how, but one day Daisy walked past and caught a whiff of it and then realising she couldn't reach it threw herself on the ground hysterically barking and crying until I came along to see what was going on because I thought she was DYING... or something. No, she just knew there was a cat biscuit behind the box and couldn't reach it, which was obviously very traumatizing for her.

;)

[schnauzer]

Ok few things have happened. I know I said I had calmed down last night, but now, I don't actually think I had. The whole experience really did shake me to the core because I honestly thought even if it was only for a few seconds that I was going to watch my puppy be killed.

Went down the road to the shops today as usual, and we were rushed again by several dogs. A mini schnauzer and 2 maltese things were the worst. The woman with the maltese terriers had them on what looked like horse leads and there was almost not enough room on the footpath for my dog to be out of reach of hers. She didn't do anything when her dogs were striking out at mine, growling, barking, struggling etc, so I said, and not in the nicest way, "do you think that given you have no control over your dogs, you should perhaps keep them on a shorter lead?" She just stared at me blankly the whole time. The only thing I remember her saying, was, "oh, one of them likes to bark". This makes no sense to me, so because they like to attack other dogs they're allowed to? There was also an older woman trying to get past at the time, waiting for me to go first. She asked if I could get past, and I said, not at this moment because those 2 dogs were trying to attack mine. This was at Queen St shops btw, heaps of people, now all looking at this woman with her 2 vicious swf dogs. And still she did absolutely nothing. Holding just the end of her lead ropes and not really moving because her dogs were pulling her to the side.

At least the lady with the schnauzer tried to pull him on a short leash and apologized, though she did nothing to correct her dog.

On the plus side, my puppy doesn't panic anymore. He just sticks super close and keeps walking at my side, paying everything else little attention, albeit with his tail tightly between his legs. But I think this may have been because I don't feel scared when I see the malteses or the schnauzers coming for him, because I feel quite confident in my ability to protect him.

The ridiculous part is I actually feel safer when I see a GSD coming towards us than a maltese terrier

I don't want BSL, but owning a young, sensitive breed, I am finding myself increasingly frustrated with people who can not and will not put any effort into controlling their dogs. I realise now that no matter what breed, having a dog that is out of control creates a very difficult and dangerous situation, because as he gets older and bigger, I will have to start worrying about him reciprocating.

Where can I go to walk my dog? There are sooo many dogs in Woollahra, and it is certainly a thin minority that I would want my dog having anything to do with. I can not walk around the block without running into at least 10 other dogs, and about 50% of them will try and charge my dog.

BTW, this is not the first large, dominant breed I have owned. We have had GSD, rotties and a staffy in our family; and I would not want to see any of those breeds in the hands of a bad owner. Also know what parvo is. But I have a puppy now who loves to be patted by strangers, who strange kids can just start patting without great manners, and he not only tolerates it but enjoys it because I have rewarded him for this behaviour. When I first got him, he refused to go outside, to walk, to talk to anyone. I live in a heavily populated area, so to survive, this is how he has to be.

I was not trying to blame the dog yesterday for what happened, I was absolutely furious at the owner, and just wanted to be able to stop her from being able to own anymore dogs that she could screw up, and of course also to enable to hurt other dogs.

It is difficult to walk your dogs in the east subs without seeing other dogs. By the way, the schnauzer was not one of mine. ;)

I would suggest walking in Centennial Park but on the footpath or inside Grand Drive where all dogs must be leashed. I have known of several bad dog attacks including the death of a puppy in Queens Park in the past year or so. I rarely do dog parks, I just don't trust other owners to be responsible.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

It might sound harsh but it is the truth. In my second post I elaborated to be more clear.

If people stop being so defensive all the time and have a think about it they may learn something, otherwise carry on with the same attitude, there will never be any improvement in the rate of dog fights, attacks, and so on. The OP, instead of looking at what she could improve, the foremost thought in her mind is how wrong the other person is and what her breed of dog is. Am I the only one around this place that can see anything wrong with that ?

We have another correspondent here, in one sentence saying I do not know what I am talking about, and in the next sentence relaying a story about how her own dog was recently attacked at an offleash area

[Danois]

I am familiar with Centennial Park and am not a fan - too many out of control dogs there. No way would I have an 11 week old puppy there off lead. Puppies are puppies with the attention span of a gnat and it would not take much for them to decide to take off and there is so much traffic etc in the park.

I have also heard of parvo in the Eastern Suburbs.

[PuddleDuck]

I was attacked by a bassett hound about 6 years ago. At a kennel I worked at, he had a severe case of food agression and no-one had told me until after I spent 10 minutes fighting him off. It was quite horrid at the time (ears, loose skin and teeth flying everywhere ) In hindsight, it gives me a good laugh, such an unlikely breed.

Do I like bassett hounds now? Not overly fussed on them (sorry to all who own them, I'm not wanting to have a go at them, just to make a point). Would I own one? No. Do I think they should be banned??? Absolutely not. Whilst my (very short) experience with the breed was not a positive one, I can understand that like all breeds, there are the right owners out there, and a handful of idiots. Unfortunately its the idiots that leave the memories.

At the same time I was also working around an ex-fighting rescued pit bull who was described as having been "blooded". He was a scarred up gentleman, with a bad front leg from a break that had never been treated properly. He was trained to attack dogs and people. And by attack, I do mean severely. I have, never, in my life, met a gentler dog. He lived at the stable where I kept my horse, had people coming and going all day, other dogs coming past his yard, and I never once heard him growl. He was a dog that had every single reason to be human and dog aggressive. I remember one day wandering through his yard with the girl who ran the property and he was hiding under some bushes and wouldn't come out. We walked onto the back deck and there was a TINY hole in a rubbish bag that had been left there. Someone had called him off it and he'd gone and tucked himself away immediately. When he came out he was initially submissive, but back to being himself quickly. (And of course just want to point out that he was kept under dangerous dog conditions and very very carefully handled etc)

[casowner]

As with the other posters I am very sorry that this has happened with your pup, but I also agree that blaming the owner, not the breed is the right way to think too. I hope you have reported the attack, if not for your piece of mind but for the simple fact that it may prevent another incident in the future.

I admit certain breeds make me nervous and to be honest dobes are one of them due to a trauma and it is sad that a trauma can affect the way you see a certain breed for the rest of your life. Among the many great danes we had when growing up we also had a dobe, who in the end was euthanased due to people and dog aggression and in the end stock killing. I was only a young child and maybe it was the way he was raised, but I do remember as a young pup he would growl. . I took my family for a walk to a small residential lake today so my son could see the ducks and a family with a swf thought it was amusing that it was pulling at the end of the leash growling and barking and not once did they try to restrain it. My first comment to OH (I admit shamefully) is that I should go home and get my 80kg CASD and take him for a walk past them and see how comfortable they felt. People need to realise that they are in control of their animals and that they are as responsible as much to their dog as they are to the community. Dog ownership isn't just about loving your own animal it is about being responsible for all of it's needs and ensuring that he or she and those that they interact with are safe.

I believe that BSL punishes the breed, it doesn't punish the type of owner that people seem to think they attract. Those types of owners generally do not obey the laws anyway and if those breeds are unavailable to them I am sure the next best thing will do. The carer of that particular dog that attacked your puppy is clearly in the wrong and should be punished. Unfortunately if she said that all of the other dogs have had puppies before then she clearly has no clue what being a responsible owner entails.

[blacklabrador]

It might sound harsh but it is the truth. In my second post I elaborated to be more clear.

If people stop being so defensive all the time and have a think about it they may learn something, otherwise carry on with the same attitude, there will never be any improvement in the rate of dog fights, attacks, and so on. The OP, instead of looking at what she could improve, the foremost thought in her mind is how wrong the other person is and what her breed of dog is. Am I the only one around this place that can see anything wrong with that ?

We have another correspondent here, in one sentence saying I do not know what I am talking about, and in the next sentence relaying a story about how her own dog was recently attacked at an offleash area

It's your truth Lo Pan, not necessarily everybody elses. The point I was making is that we were totally minding our own business and my dog made no attempt to approach these dogs. The dickhead who owns them shouldn't have them in an offleash area. The dickhead is the problem and is responsible.

So what is your solution to the problem? Where can my dogs swim? Where can my dogs go to run? My backyard is no longer big enough. What's your solution?

Your suggestion is as illogical as telling people to stay in bed so they don't get up and risk anything bad happening to them. It's also as illogical as suggesting that somebody who is injured in a car accident when hit by a drunk driver is completely responsible for the accident because they took the risk and went out driving in their car. So yeah if you make ridiculous generalisations then you are going to get people disagreeing with you.

[LittlePoppet]

I do think an owner would have trouble getting a large breed off another dog, but, I do think the dog itself would have better luck with a huge, slow newf over a pittbull. I was thinking about it more today, and thinking about all the dogs who have tried to attack my puppy so far. There were a few small things, which we all just ignored, there was the labrador yesterday at lunch which wouldn't stop barking at him but who knows how far it would have taken it, and then about a week ago, there were 2 large staffy type dogs. They were on a lead, but pulling out in front, lunging at my dog. I say large because I thought staffies were only meant to be about 20kg, and these ones were definitely larger than that. There are a couple of gsds in my area, all very well behaved. There is a rottie who is also well-behaved. I don't know. In my area at least, all the incompetent owners seem to own the small fluffy things, and the bully breeds. Looking out the window this morning, another large staffy looking thing, pulling out in front of its owner on the walk.

lunging to attack or just to check out your dog?

and does a lunging /pulling dog on a lead make them aggressive??

cos its no often that my sibe isnt pulling on her lead but its not cos shes aggressive..........

and because shes doing that does it make me incompetent and a bad owner??

[Zhou Xuanyao]

I am not going to cover the same ground it has already been said, post number 63.

Take something away from that, or call me an idiot and repeat the same logic, it's upto you.

[blacklabrador]

I am not going to cover the same ground it has already been said, post number 63.

Take something away from that, or call me an idiot and repeat the same logic, it's upto you.

There's no solution present in your post 63 either.

I choose to not take anything away from it because "don't let your dog offleash out of its back yard" not a practical solution for dog owners.

Your attitude however, is typical of somebody who has/had a DA dog. I saw what Puppy did to another dog. But that wasn't your fault right?

Edited April 2, 2010 by blacklabrador

[mantis]

Puppys of his age are quite often really good at sticking close by because they are babies and they need "pack" support. Usually at around 14 to 16 weeks they start to become a little braver and try their independence. This means that will start to explore a little further on their own, quite often ignoring your calls to return as they are starting the very beginning of their adolecent like faze of puppy hood. It is not unusual for a puppy of that age who has never gone away from it's owner to start giving the two finger salute whilst running or at least jogging in the opposite direction.

They do not know how to recall, especially under distraction, as they have not yet been taught what a recall is.

Dobermanns - especially males- do not have a reliable recall until they are at least 18 months and have be regularly trained for it.

As the owner of an almost 15 week old male Dobe puppy, I have to agree with the above about recall at this age. He still doesn't go more than a few feet away from us at the moment (we've only had him a bit over 2 weeks though) - but he has absolutely no recall whatsoever which means we cannot and do not take him anywhere offleash. But having only had female dobes before - the part about it taking 18 months for males is daunting!! lol

It is a shame as we only live a few minutes from a great dog beach, but he is still a bit scared of other dogs at the moment so apart from the worry about him running off, I want to reduce the chance of having bad experiences with other dogs as much as possible as the last thing I want is a dog-aggressive dobie. His only close interaction with other dogs (on-leash) is at puppy school.

As far as this incident with the "bully" type dog and BSL etc - I can only agree with the majority of others that there is no such thing as a bad breed - only bad owners. Any dog can be dog/people aggressive if it is not raised correctly - and to be honest, I have met far more small dogs with bad attitudes than the larger breeds as they are often less trained than the big dogs (This is not aimed at small dog owners on DOL, as you wouldn't be on here if you were irresponsible!).

I was raised with Staffies, and my experience is that they are very loving, family-oriented dogs - so your comments about "staffy things" is very unfair to the breed and responsible owners. In fact your posts about any other dogs in general often refers to them as being "things" - You come across as not really liking any other dogs at all. I think the only "things" in all of these incidents are the owners - particularly the bogun ones who buy the rotties/gsd/dobie/bull terrier type dogs as they think they are tough, and give the rest of us a bad name. You really need to report this woman as soon as possible, especially as she has been reported twice before - this is not a one-off unexpected incident for her.

I am very sorry that your dobie puppy was scared and hope that he doesn't suffer any long-term anxiety about it. As soon as his vaccinations are done - will you be taking him to puppy school? My little guy was a bit overwhelmed to start with, but then he ended up having a really good time and you could see his confidence improve - definitely worth going.

I felt the same, I don't know any true dog lovers referring to any other dogs "as things", like the OP, this was another reason why my BS meter went off in believing the OP. Too many inconsistencies in all their posts.

[Zug Zug]

Wow - OP if you're still reading after some of the harsh comments you have received then I take my hat off to you.

In one of my earlier posts I described the day when I was attacked by a boxer - a very long time ago.

With that behind me now, I just want to remind you that YOU have been through a traumatic experience too - it's not just your puppy that will possibly have some emotional triggers over the coming months or years.

Your reactions to the dogs you come across while walking your dog now are likely to be sharper than they otherwise would be. Your heart might race. You might feel a bit like 'fight or flight' - and in most cases that means fight.

You have since described a run-in you've since had with a walker of some pretty small dogs. It makes me wonder if you are possibly experiencing some strong emotional reactions of your own. It's possible (I don't know) that you might over-react in some situations because of what has happened.

I'm not criticising AT ALL. I'm only saying this because that's what I did for quite a while after I was attacked. I would cross the street to avoid dogs that were probably perfectly normal friendly dogs. I just 'knew' (wrongly) that they would hurt me. Even when logically I knew that was unlikely. It took me a while to feel confident again. Several years, actually. And I'm a tragic dog-lover and have had dogs (including some big dogs) my whole life!

Go easy on yourself and think about ways to stay calm when you see other dogs. Remember too that you might be communicating your fear to your puppy, unintentionally. Find some dogs you trust to socialise with. And be aware of your own heart rate - try to slow it down if you can.