Council Says Our Dogs Are A Disturbance At Night

[Erny]

Yes Ellz - you're right. I mis-read that part.

[mita]

no complaints mate, just cant understand how dogs can be unfenced next door, if the council had followed up wouldnt they be in a fenced area....well!!!!!!!!! look i dont have a problem coming to our place asking, that not the issue, the issue is we said no they dont get out, and he wasnt happy with that answer, he basically said we were covering up, and that i dont take kindly to, and frankly neither would you

Sandra, I can understand how you felt.

Given your dogs are registered & secured, it was a shock for a council officer to arrive & quiz your OH closely about something your dogs had no chance of doing. And, as someone else pointed out, it's not easy to prove an event did not happen.

You're right, too, that when your dog is registered... its details, like breed, colour, location are checkable against complaints. And, if some other offending unregistered dog fits the description & the location....well, your dog gets the spotlight, first.

So I think feeling cranky, at first, was only human. But you've put your finger on a reality....one that puts a registered dog in the spotlight, while the unregistered go under the radar.

With the benefit of hindsight, I can also see it puts the investigating council officer in as awkward a position as that of the totally innocent owner.

I'm glad you've posted about a situation that could happen to any owner of a registered dog.

So, if it ever happens to me now, I'll be saying to myself, 'Keep your cool!'

And I'd be thinking if there are other neighbours, who know me & my dogs well, who would provide stat decs that they were kept securely. Thus, providing additional information for the officer, apart from my own word.

Edited April 1, 2010 by mita

[sandra64]

Geebus guys, he was only checking his facts and coming out to investigate. What do you expect he does, ignore complaints? Wow, lighten up and let the man do his job.

Yes and I agree that he should and was right to do so. But reading the OP, his responses of "Is that so?" sounds (if I take what I imagine the tone would have been correctly) goading to me. That's not something I expect of anyone, let alone an officially appointed office of government or council.

No erny it was my OH that said is that so to the officers question, thats when the OH said that they dont wander conversation conversation as in they are locked on back verandah, and thats when the officer said are you sure about that, meaning are you making this up. As i have said all along i have no problem with him checking on a complaint, the front paddock is 2 1/2 acres the house gate was open at the time, as the other half was working on the cattle pen which is attatched to the house fence , the dogs were with him and the officer even had a go about them being in the front paddock next to the other half and not behind the fence, they were still on the property. why is that wrong can someone answer that one for me cause i have no idea. They cannot get out of the front paddock cause they will not cross the cattle grid, i carry them acroos that, and they are never allowed out there without us.erny the "is that so" was in reply to the officer saying we have a complaint about your dogs, so he didnt indicate there was a problem in the street with some dogs it was our dogs. p.s. quite frankly i never thought i would let pedigree show dogs run a muck at night, thanks mita glad you understand my frustation, i wasnt really feeling like sh#t until after i posted. Can i just add as well to everyone who seems to think the "IS THAT SO" is so important, context of it is not in the rude way but in the "oh is that so, sorry what have they done" it was never said rudely to him.

Edited April 1, 2010 by sandra64

[Crisovar]

I've seen dead dogs picked up off the road or out of farmers paddocks that "never get out of our Yard", I daresay this ranger and almost every other one in the country has too hence why they keep asking.

Annoying, Yes, but, he is doing his job.

[sandra64]

I've seen dead dogs picked up off the road or out of farmers paddocks that "never get out of our Yard", I daresay this ranger and almost every other one in the country has too hence why they keep asking.

Annoying, Yes, but, he is doing his job.

Im sure you have crisovar, but in saying that have you seen our yard, i dont think so?. It is a totally 5 acre property fully and i mean fully dog meshed into 3 sections. Not one section of house yard dog meshed, but the whole 5 acres. it is tention wired down the bottom and top so nothing can lift it, fully reinforced for cattle to push on it, the only way they would get out is for some ignorant prick to let them out, which wouldnt surprise me

[Wazzat Xolo]

Dont worry too much Sandra the onus is on the council to prove the dogs were out not you to prove they were not!!

I've seen dead dogs picked up off the road or out of farmers paddocks that "never get out of our Yard", I daresay this ranger and almost every other one in the country has too hence why they keep asking.

Annoying, Yes, but, he is doing his job.

Im sure you have crisovar, but in saying that have you seen our yard, i dont think so?. It is a totally 5 acre property fully and i mean fully dog meshed into 3 sections. Not one section of house yard dog meshed, but the whole 5 acres. it is tention wired down the bottom and top so nothing can lift it, fully reinforced for cattle to push on it, the only way they would get out is for some ignorant prick to let them out, which wouldnt surprise me

[sandra64]

]

Dont worry too much Sandra the onus is on the council to prove the dogs were out not you to prove they were not!!

I've seen dead dogs picked up off the road or out of farmers paddocks that "never get out of our Yard", I daresay this ranger and almost every other one in the country has too hence why they keep asking.

Annoying, Yes, but, he is doing his job.

Im sure you have crisovar, but in saying that have you seen our yard, i dont think so?. It is a totally 5 acre property fully and i mean fully dog meshed into 3 sections. Not one section of house yard dog meshed, but the whole 5 acres. it is tention wired down the bottom and top so nothing can lift it, fully reinforced for cattle to push on it, the only way they would get out is for some ignorant prick to let them out, which wouldnt surprise me

thankyou wazzat.

Edited April 1, 2010 by sandra64

[sandra64]

this is how our yard is fenced. dog meshed screwed into timber every square and tention wired, so any of you out there being judgmental on being truthful about dogs being in or out of yard what more would you like me to do , really i dont think we would go to all that hard work not mentioning the thousands and thousands of dollars to secure the yard, so the dogs could run wild. This is the verandah they sleep on 2nd story of a queenslander, with the entry to downstairs closed. Oh and i would like to add that the time frame in question (night time) there is no waythat these dogs are out of the yard fencing or no fencing. They are either in the house or when bed time on the back verandah, so unless they have mastered the technic of skydiving and then scaling up a wall to get back upstairs they are not going anywhere.

Edited April 1, 2010 by sandra64

[KitKat]

I think the problem is going to be proving it wasn't your dogs.

My brother moved into a new rental property (first tenants after it was built) and within 2 weeks they received a show cause regarding barking dogs and dog roaming the street. Given the dogs were at my house and not with him and there wasn't anyone living in the house until they arrived - they still had to prove it wasn't their dogs causing the problems. Just telling them there wasn't any dogs on the property wasn't sufficient ....

The ranger has to prove that it WAS your dogs not the other way around ( Thank god!!) or there would be people in trouble for everything! on the say so or guess of the community!! lol

I guess all states differ slightly but in WA it is an offence to have a dog on a property that cant be contained, (inside the house is not generally acceptable)

Unfortunately in Brissie it's the other way around...you have to prove it WASN'T your dogs barking/roaming/biting/whatever

[mita]

Unfortunately in Brissie it's the other way around...you have to prove it WASN'T your dogs barking/roaming/biting/whatever

You're right, KitKat.

There was a case here, where a little sweet-natured tibbie, the pet of an 89 yr old lady, was declared a Dangerous Dog by the council. He'd gotten out thro' a hole in the fence. At the same time, a report was made about a dog pulling feathers off someone's duck at a house in the same block. A witness described the offending dog as being nothing like a tibbie.

But the council picked up the little tibbie & he got the blame for 'attacking the duck'. He was given the label Dangerous Dog & the elderly lady copped a huge fine.

It was so outrageous that the newspaper & talkback radio picked it up. Which made the council back down on the fine, but they wouldn't back down on the label Dangerous Dog. As KK said, how could the owner prove a negative.....that the dog hadn't done it?????

Only good thing was that Bunnings donated & built a new fence for the elderly lady.

[Wazzat Xolo]

Gee whizz ( no offence meant) but that is very backward! If it went to a court of law as a case it wouldnt get far!!

I am so sorry the rules in Qld are this way I am mortified!!

I may have to think twice about sending my dogs over there! I am shocked!

I think the problem is going to be proving it wasn't your dogs.

My brother moved into a new rental property (first tenants after it was built) and within 2 weeks they received a show cause regarding barking dogs and dog roaming the street. Given the dogs were at my house and not with him and there wasn't anyone living in the house until they arrived - they still had to prove it wasn't their dogs causing the problems. Just telling them there wasn't any dogs on the property wasn't sufficient ....

The ranger has to prove that it WAS your dogs not the other way around ( Thank god!!) or there would be people in trouble for everything! on the say so or guess of the community!! lol

I guess all states differ slightly but in WA it is an offence to have a dog on a property that cant be contained, (inside the house is not generally acceptable)

Unfortunately in Brissie it's the other way around...you have to prove it WASN'T your dogs barking/roaming/biting/whatever

[KitKat]

Yeah...i got given notice by letter and in person that my dogs were barking 24/7 - not considering they were inside from 6pm to 6am i'd have thought i'd have noticed they were barking! When speaking to the Council guy i was told i would need to keep a diary of when they were inside, when outside and when i heard them barking, i'd need stat decs from my closest neighbours - but that they'd be worth nothng as i could bribe or intimidate my neighbours, prefferably i should also set up tape recorders and or security cameras to record my dogs not barking through the day etc etc. They would also attend the property without notice to see if the dogs were barking. I would be given a 2nd letter stating that the dogs would have to be removed if i hadn't solved the problem, and if i got a third letter they would forcibly remove my dogs.

The 2nd Council Officer i spoke to in person said that before outlaying any money i should wait to see if i got a 2nd letter as the complainent would have had to have complained a second time - which as it turned out they didn't.

ETA - there was however a GSD two doors down who did bark alot on a regular basis, plus a another big dog across the street, a couple more next door etc etc..it was a very doggy end of the street...lol

Edited April 2, 2010 by KitKat

[Agility Dogs]

Yeah...i got given notice by letter and in person that my dogs were barking 24/7 - not considering they were inside from 6pm to 6am i'd have thought i'd have noticed they were barking! When speaking to the Council guy i was told i would need to keep a diary of when they were inside, when outside and when i heard them barking, i'd need stat decs from my closest neighbours - but that they'd be worth nothng as i could bribe or intimidate my neighbours, prefferably i should also set up tape recorders and or security cameras to record my dogs not barking through the day etc etc. They would also attend the property without notice to see if the dogs were barking. I would be given a 2nd letter stating that the dogs would have to be removed if i hadn't solved the problem, and if i got a third letter they would forcibly remove my dogs.

The 2nd Council Officer i spoke to in person said that before outlaying any money i should wait to see if i got a 2nd letter as the complainent would have had to have complained a second time - which as it turned out they didn't.

ETA - there was however a GSD two doors down who did bark alot on a regular basis, plus a another big dog across the street, a couple more next door etc etc..it was a very doggy end of the street...lol

Are you sure that the council officer wasn't just playing the whole power thing? I'm sure all the evidence he mentioned would help your cause, but I'm not convinced you are obligated to prove you dogs are not at fault.

My understanding is that those making the complaint need to keep a diary and it is up to the council to come out and monitor the situation. They need to find that your dogs are barking for more than 6 minutes in the hour or 3 in the half hour after 7pm (or whatever it is).

I did a lot of calling the council when we had a pup that barked a lot and they didn't ever suggest it was up to me, in fact they said it was quite difficult to get a complaint to the stage where anything other than a warning happened.

[KitKat]

You may not be convinced...but i was pretty convinced at the time - i was told i would have to have proof my dogs WERE NOT barking. Perhaps the ACO was on a power trip i don't know - doesn't change what i was told. The complainent doesn't need to keep a diary as such- however they are given another form which they have to tick the boxes as to when they hear barking etc - since their initial complaint was 'barking 24/7' it would be easy enough to just tick all the boxes. Also there was only cyclone fencing around my yard and the nearest ones...there is no where an ACO could hide without one of the nearby dogs seeing and setting all the dogs off.

The complainent doesn't get in trouble, or even a wanring, for making false complaints - however the dog owner (i think i was the only one out of the nearby group with registered dogs so it MUST be my dogs barking) gets the scare, the threat and record.