Finding It Hard To Find The "one" :cry:

[italmum]

The breeder i am meeting with, if we infact choose a dog lives in gippsland (meeting her at the show though)...thats no where near where i am - and hasnt stopped me calling her, I have been looking for a while before i posted my question to everyone on DOL. So infact it hasnt just been a couple of days....

I am not ruling out the breeder that has a 5 month old that lives far away...the dog may well be gone by the time i get to see him. And as i have written..my whole point of writing this on the forum was to allow the discussion of my situation, and what age dog would be best for small children - and if anyone else has experienced the same negativity AND what they recommend i do.

If "christian" the dog is not suitable because of his age, atleast i have taken the time out of my easter break to see if an older dog still is the best option, or we may then decide to get a puppy later on - i do like the breeder herself, so that makes getting a dog from her even if its in the future very appealing.

Going to the show at kcc was my idea, i intend to see what dogs breeders are breeding, meet with the breeders and work up a relationship from there, i do not need a dog tomorrow - but i am not passing up the oppertunity because he may well be what i am looking for

[Greytmate]

If "christian" the dog is not suitable because of his age, atleast i have taken the time out of my easter break to see if an older dog still is the best option, or we may then decide to get a puppy later on - i do like the breeder herself, so that makes getting a dog from her even if its in the future very appealing.

I don't see how age will make Christian suitable or unsuitable. It will be his temperament that will be suitable or not. You know his age now, so if you think his age doesn't suit you, let the breeder know now so she can sell him to somebody who is happy to adopt a mature dog.

If he does not have a suitable temperament, that has nothing to do with whether another adult dog or even a pup might be suitable or not. You will be none the wiser.

Either you want a mature dog or a pup, or maybe you don't mind which. But if Christian isn't suitable that doesn't mean another dog of the same age won't be.

[italmum]

If "christian" the dog is not suitable because of his age, atleast i have taken the time out of my easter break to see if an older dog still is the best option, or we may then decide to get a puppy later on - i do like the breeder herself, so that makes getting a dog from her even if its in the future very appealing.

I don't see how age will make Christian suitable or unsuitable. It will be his temperament that will be suitable or not. You know his age now, so if you think his age doesn't suit you, let the breeder know now so she can sell him to somebody who is happy to adopt a mature dog.

If he does not have a suitable temperament, that has nothing to do with whether another adult dog or even a pup might be suitable or not. You will be none the wiser.

Either you want a mature dog or a pup, or maybe you don't mind which. But if Christian isn't suitable that doesn't mean another dog of the same age won't be.

yes i know that. I have actually been speaking to my partner tonight and there are plus's for younger and older....older the temperament is atleast more developed, and young pup...you get to help shape the dog they will become.

My thing is with older dogs unless you are told you dont know the way they are bought up..with puppys you start hopefully with a clean slate, where you can help the dog grow

I to be honest am pretty open to age, christian is only 9 months old so he is still a puppy I just personally thought that an older dog would have been the best thing for me...other ppls posts have made me see both sides, and just like myself...i cant judge a dog on its age, i need to meet them and the breeder

[Greytmate]

My thing is with older dogs unless you are told you dont know the way they are bought up..with puppys you start hopefully with a clean slate, where you can help the dog grow

As I have said before, puppies are not a clean slate. They have potential to be what their genes dictate, and hopefully that potential is good and will be reached, and no unexpected bad experiences shape the dog.

It is important the the breeder gives you as much info as possible about Christian, but there are ways of knowing more. Dogs can be tested out, to see their reactions and gauge how they would be likely to react to things in your home.

Ask the breeder first, but I am sure they won't mind you doing a few things to see what Christian does.

Make a loud and sudden noise (drop a very heavy book on the floor about two meters away from the dog). It is normal for the dog to get a fright, but the test is, how quickly does the dog get over it? Ideally you want a dog that will get over it within a second or two, and come bouncing over for inspection, and not remain cowering away in fear for a little while. Don't reassure the dog or say a word, just watch what it does.

Give the dog a pigs' ear or similar treat to chew. Can the breeder take the treat away from him without him snapping or growling? If they can, can you? (Do not allow the kids to be near the dog at any time while eating). If he growls or bites, I would say unsuitable for a home with kids (or maybe even adults unless he gets some training).

Have the kids sit quietly and call Christian. Does he come over to them?

Ask the kids to run around in a big circle around the dog, and get them to squeal and giggle. Is the dog scared of that? Does it get overexcited and jump on the kids or nip? At what level of the kids activity does the dog start to get overexcited or scared?

Yes, it feels foolish to do these silly tests, and doing tests isn't foolproof. But doing tests like these will give you more of an idea of Christian's temperament than just patting and playing with him will.

Goodluck.

[Parkeyre]

My thing is with older dogs unless you are told you dont know the way they are bought up..with puppys you start hopefully with a clean slate, where you can help the dog grow

As I have said before, puppies are not a clean slate. They have potential to be what their genes dictate, and hopefully that potential is good and will be reached, and no unexpected bad experiences shape the dog.

It is important the the breeder gives you as much info as possible about Christian, but there are ways of knowing more. Dogs can be tested out, to see their reactions and gauge how they would be likely to react to things in your home.

Ask the breeder first, but I am sure they won't mind you doing a few things to see what Christian does.

Make a loud and sudden noise (drop a very heavy book on the floor about two meters away from the dog). It is normal for the dog to get a fright, but the test is, how quickly does the dog get over it? Ideally you want a dog that will get over it within a second or two, and come bouncing over for inspection, and not remain cowering away in fear for a little while. Don't reassure the dog or say a word, just watch what it does.

Give the dog a pigs' ear or similar treat to chew. Can the breeder take the treat away from him without him snapping or growling? If they can, can you? (Do not allow the kids to be near the dog at any time while eating). If he growls or bites, I would say unsuitable for a home with kids (or maybe even adults unless he gets some training).

Have the kids sit quietly and call Christian. Does he come over to them?

Ask the kids to run around in a big circle around the dog, and get them to squeal and giggle. Is the dog scared of that? Does it get overexcited and jump on the kids or nip? At what level of the kids activity does the dog start to get overexcited or scared?

Yes, it feels foolish to do these silly tests, and doing tests isn't foolproof. But doing tests like these will give you more of an idea of Christian's temperament than just patting and playing with him will.

Goodluck.

Fantastic Post.

[BJean]

My thing is with older dogs unless you are told you dont know the way they are bought up..with puppys you start hopefully with a clean slate, where you can help the dog grow

As I have said before, puppies are not a clean slate. They have potential to be what their genes dictate, and hopefully that potential is good and will be reached, and no unexpected bad experiences shape the dog.

It is important the the breeder gives you as much info as possible about Christian, but there are ways of knowing more. Dogs can be tested out, to see their reactions and gauge how they would be likely to react to things in your home.

Ask the breeder first, but I am sure they won't mind you doing a few things to see what Christian does.

Make a loud and sudden noise (drop a very heavy book on the floor about two meters away from the dog). It is normal for the dog to get a fright, but the test is, how quickly does the dog get over it? Ideally you want a dog that will get over it within a second or two, and come bouncing over for inspection, and not remain cowering away in fear for a little while. Don't reassure the dog or say a word, just watch what it does.

Give the dog a pigs' ear or similar treat to chew. Can the breeder take the treat away from him without him snapping or growling? If they can, can you? (Do not allow the kids to be near the dog at any time while eating). If he growls or bites, I would say unsuitable for a home with kids (or maybe even adults unless he gets some training).

Have the kids sit quietly and call Christian. Does he come over to them?

Ask the kids to run around in a big circle around the dog, and get them to squeal and giggle. Is the dog scared of that? Does it get overexcited and jump on the kids or nip? At what level of the kids activity does the dog start to get overexcited or scared?

Yes, it feels foolish to do these silly tests, and doing tests isn't foolproof. But doing tests like these will give you more of an idea of Christian's temperament than just patting and playing with him will.

Goodluck.

Dont know about other breeders, but I wouldn't let a visiting home do that.

One, bcz I dont know how the visiting home will react

and two, I dont want to be reinforcing any not so good ideas in my pups' head.

I dont think the average home can go about temp testing, bcz they wont really be looking at everything anyway

and no way would most breeders let mr/ms public try out a new idea (such as the temp test above) with their pup

[Greytmate]

I can see your concern Lilli.

But it's a pretty watered-down test. It is also very specific for that particular dog, given the information we have already been told. His age and personality.

Disclaimer- Don't do this test on a strange dog, or on any dog without the owner's permission.

But I suggest that Italmum print it out, and take it along to show the breeder. The breeder would supervise the whole test. This isn't the type of test you do in another room.

Nothing on the test could hurt the dog, and adults will be supervising the children. The breeder should want to do everything they can to make sure the dog will be happy with kids. Kids do drop things, giggle and squeal, and dogs do steal food off kids. Hopefully this dog will love the kids and be good with them.

[Dogsfevr]

i agree with lilli ,we too wouldnt allow any strangers to do that to our dogs & if someone turned up with a list wanting to do that we would stop there.

Dont know about other breeders, but I wouldn't let a visiting home do that.

One, bcz I dont know how the visiting home will react

and two, I dont want to be reinforcing any not so good ideas in my pups' head.

I dont think the average home can go about temp testing, bcz they wont really be looking at everything anyway

and no way would most breeders let mr/ms public try out a new idea (such as the temp test above) with their pup

i agree with lilli ,we too wouldnt allow any strangers to do that to our dogs & if someone turned up with a list wanting to do that we would stop there.

The children dont need to call the dog as the dog is going show signs very quickly how it responds to strangers.

The breeders ii now all follow the same method where everyone calmly sits down & the dog is allowed to interact.

Questions are asked & attention is paid to how things are progressing & we will talk further & point out things that need to be known with they way the interaction is going or not going.

[Greytmate]

Obviously the breeder would want to talk to Italmum for a while before allowing any test.

I don't see the problem with the things on the test. You don't want the children to sit quietly and call the dog? You don't want to see how the dog reacts when the children it will be living with get a bit loud running outside? Why not? You think the dog will react badly when food is taken off it?

The test will give the breeder good information about the family as well as the family finding out more about the dog.

I could have suggested that Italmum be sneaky and just give the dog an 'accidental' fright when the breeder wasn't watching. Maybe that would be a better idea if the breeder has an attitude like yours.

Or she could just take it home and test it out at home later. Wouldn't that be a whole lot of fun for her kids if the dog did turn out to be unsuited and had to be returned?

Edited April 2, 2010 by Greytmate

[Dogsfevr]

Obviously the breeder would want to talk to Italmum for a while before allowing any test.

I don't see the problem with the things on the test. You don't want the children to sit quietly and call the dog? You don't want to see how the dog reacts when the children it will be living with get a bit loud running outside? Why not? You think the dog will react badly when food is taken off it?

The test will give the breeder good information about the family as well as the family finding out more about the dog.

I could have suggested that Italmum be sneaky and just give the dog an 'accidental' fright when the breeder wasn't watching. Maybe that would be a better idea if the breeder has an attitude like yours.

Or she could just take it home and test it out at home later. Wouldn't that be a whole lot of fun for her kids if the dog did turn out to be unsuited and had to be returned?

Um i would suggest giving the breeder more credit for knowing there dog & what they see.

In all the years of rehoming older dogs we have never had this done & never had an issue with matching the right dog.

We dont send dogs home on the first visit either,the first visit here is for all parties to meet & greet & if it is doable then they go home & think about it after been informed of all that was seen & what we feel would be the best option.

[Greytmate]

I'm not giving any breeder credit if I don't know them.

I am just giving the best advice I can to Italmum about dog temperament.

If Italmum just storms in there with a big pack of loud feral kids and demands a test, and refuses to listen to the breeder, then yes, the breeder should show her the door without delay.

But if Italmum sits down with her lovely quiet children, has a chat and answers questions and then talks to the breeder about what is in the test, why would any reasonable person refuse?

Italmum has posted about her concerns about 'unknown' temperament of an adult dog. I was explaining some ways to find out. I didn't realise it would offend breeders so much that they would knock back a home out of spite.

So maybe Italmum should do those tests at home on the quiet, if the breeder decides she should have the dog at all.

[Longcoat]

well. rejected once again.

I am really dissapointed, I spoke to someone who had a dog, now after speaking to her "friend with a 2 1/2 year old and a 6 month old" she thinks my kids arent ready.

and thats the whole issue i have had - everyone bundling me into the same basket as everyone else.. I had a lil sob...Do people not know the heartache that they are putting me through atm.

Maybe just not meant to be.

thanks everyone..this seems to be pointless.

Hmmm, I am thinking why tell them you have kids if it's held against you???.

[Bluefairy]

When I went to pick up my pup, we spoke to the breeder while Zoe was outside with us, running around and exploring everything. I watched her as I listened to what the breeder was saying.....and you can tell mostly how a pup reacts to different things. Like Zoe went up to a broom and started chewing on the bristles, this caused the broom to fall over with a loud noise, Zoe jumped back out the way and then went over to sniff it and find out what it was, she then continued to chew on it. There were a lot of noises, trucks going past (it was a farm and well away from the road and fenced off) birds screeching, sheep, etc and Zoe ignored it all. She went up to everything and everyone to sniff and explore.

Now she is home, we have found her to be a gutsy little thing. She isn't afraid of something new, and will go up to it and see what it is. She learns very quick, and will always stop what she is doing when you say no or click your fingers.

Unlike my last pup who was afraid of everything and anything, and it took a lot of socialisation to get her used to simple everyday things. If I knew then what I know now, I don't think I would have picked her. But she was the last of the litter, and we just fell in love with her on sight.

Some traits like the fear ones are either inbreed or come from treatment early in life. It takes a lot of time and effort to make a pup trust that what you are showing them isn't going to hurt them. But I wouldn't chose a pup that had fear issues.

Like I said though, watching the pup the whole time is a good example of what the pup will be. A nervous pup is not going to suddenly get better, just observe what the pup does the whole time you are there.

BF

[italmum]

Hello Again,

My god has this discussion gone out of hand HAHA

I am going by myself on sunday morning, The breeder can get to know me and i can assess Christian on my own , then if we both agree on monday he will be bought to our house to be introduced to the children.

I think this is a great way of doing it, then i can see how he is without being over stimulated by the kids.

as the breeder said, we are all learning...he hasnt had child interaction, and my kids have never had a dog before.

[lic_82]

well. rejected once again.

I am really dissapointed, I spoke to someone who had a dog, now after speaking to her "friend with a 2 1/2 year old and a 6 month old" she thinks my kids arent ready.

and thats the whole issue i have had - everyone bundling me into the same basket as everyone else.. I had a lil sob...Do people not know the heartache that they are putting me through atm.

Maybe just not meant to be.

thanks everyone..this seems to be pointless.

Hmmm, I am thinking why tell them you have kids if it's held against you???.

Because its honest and its the right thing to do?! I would think being honest would be rather crucial in developing a relationship with a breeder that you are hoping will trust you enough to place on of their babies in your home.

Good luck with Christian Italmum

[italmum]

well. rejected once again.

I am really dissapointed, I spoke to someone who had a dog, now after speaking to her "friend with a 2 1/2 year old and a 6 month old" she thinks my kids arent ready.

and thats the whole issue i have had - everyone bundling me into the same basket as everyone else.. I had a lil sob...Do people not know the heartache that they are putting me through atm.

Maybe just not meant to be.

thanks everyone..this seems to be pointless.

Hmmm, I am thinking why tell them you have kids if it's held against you???.

Because its honest and its the right thing to do?! I would think being honest would be rather crucial in developing a relationship with a breeder that you are hoping will trust you enough to place on of their babies in your home.

Good luck with Christian Italmum ;)

well said Lic82 and Thanks

[LizT]

Well I can see how a family with small kids could end up going through a BYB or a Petshop to get a puppy!

You are a very patient woman Italmum (your kids must have taught you that!). Good on you. ;)

P.S. I've been reading through 'some' of this thread and you are being lead around in lil'circles, so much information. Take it in and glean what makes sense to you, then do what 'feels' right. Remember ALL the advice you got when you had your first baby (thank dog they leave you alone after you have your second, probably figure you didn't kill the first so you can handle it!)

Whilst I have followed I haven't read all of this thread, so I don't know if it's been mentioned that Cavalier King Charles Spaniels (as breeds go) are far easier to 'rehome' than many other breeds are. Obviously there are exceptions in everything but I'm speaking generally.

Edited April 3, 2010 by LizT

[iggy mum]

Less than 24 hrs to go italmum till you meet Christian [the dog that is ;)

[Lady Flying Furball]

My thing is with older dogs unless you are told you dont know the way they are bought up..with puppys you start hopefully with a clean slate, where you can help the dog grow

Ask the breeder first, but I am sure they won't mind you doing a few things to see what Christian does.

Make a loud and sudden noise (drop a very heavy book on the floor about two meters away from the dog). It is normal for the dog to get a fright, but the test is, how quickly does the dog get over it? Ideally you want a dog that will get over it within a second or two, and come bouncing over for inspection, and not remain cowering away in fear for a little while. Don't reassure the dog or say a word, just watch what it does.

I don't think that the average breeder would want people deliberately dropping heavy books around their dogs. Imagine if everyone did these kind of tests on going and looking at potential pets, the poor dog would get traumatised...and definitely afraid of reading material!!

[aussielover]

I am surprised. I know heaps of people who have young kids and Cavvies! I personally think you would be hard pressed to find another dog breed that is so perfect for kids!