7.30 Report Abc To Do Expose On Dd Puppy Farms

[WoofnHoof]

Well for what its worth here's what I think.I think we should just stick to the issue - Its unacceptable for dogs to be battery farmed. Then lets talk about why - use the science and the facts.Forget about comments like the dogs look so sad because thats not going to take us anywhere.One will see sadness another will tell us how they have been bred for soft temperaments blah blah blah. If we want to address pet shop issues or euthanasia rates then deal with them separately because when we get caught with them altogether we open ourselves up to them discrediting what we say and when they get us on one it makes the whole issue seem fanatical. Personally, I think this is where Clover Moore failed and after sitting through 45 mins of being lectured by a puppy farmer on how to build better dogs [vomit] I reckon its time we changed tactics.

Is the MDBA going to be contacting the 7 30 report to offer up an alternative view on the issues?

[Steve]

Well for what its worth here's what I think.I think we should just stick to the issue - Its unacceptable for dogs to be battery farmed. Then lets talk about why - use the science and the facts.Forget about comments like the dogs look so sad because thats not going to take us anywhere.One will see sadness another will tell us how they have been bred for soft temperaments blah blah blah. If we want to address pet shop issues or euthanasia rates then deal with them separately because when we get caught with them altogether we open ourselves up to them discrediting what we say and when they get us on one it makes the whole issue seem fanatical. Personally, I think this is where Clover Moore failed and after sitting through 45 mins of being lectured by a puppy farmer on how to build better dogs [vomit] I reckon its time we changed tactics.

Is the MDBA going to be contacting the 7 30 report to offer up an alternative view on the issues?

The MDBA has already spoken to someone via the 7.30 report.

[WoofnHoof]

Well for what its worth here's what I think.I think we should just stick to the issue - Its unacceptable for dogs to be battery farmed. Then lets talk about why - use the science and the facts.Forget about comments like the dogs look so sad because thats not going to take us anywhere.One will see sadness another will tell us how they have been bred for soft temperaments blah blah blah. If we want to address pet shop issues or euthanasia rates then deal with them separately because when we get caught with them altogether we open ourselves up to them discrediting what we say and when they get us on one it makes the whole issue seem fanatical. Personally, I think this is where Clover Moore failed and after sitting through 45 mins of being lectured by a puppy farmer on how to build better dogs [vomit] I reckon its time we changed tactics.

Is the MDBA going to be contacting the 7 30 report to offer up an alternative view on the issues?

The MDBA has already spoken to someone via the 7.30 report.

Good to hear, hope to see a good follow up story from breeders or rescue

[Sheridan]

The comments on Debra Tranter's website show the high level of disgust and opposition to the BanksiaPark puppy farm, a couple have posted in support of the farm but they haven't gone down well. This following supportive post seems indicative of the level of intelligence of puppy farmers and their supporters...

Ann Gilmour

Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

i think you all are a pile of idiots… the dogs are all cared for and fed for in the farm, ive been there and worked volentery for the hams family.. clearly if u eat meat i.e animals ur all talking trew ur asses cuz all animals or these days rased to make money. how would people live in the world if not. in places dogs a delocosy to eat. so a farmer that breeds cows for people to kill when they are fat enought is ok?? or hens that are caged that they cant move for eggs??? i can see in the pictures all the animals are clean and heathly shiney coats, they are not just tied up with a string left to starve were it does happen to poor dogs… the fact is just cuz people prefare to have a pet dog to a cow or donkey wats the difference?? yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down but whats the difference with any other animal that people do the same with??? at least they wernt dumped off sumwer to starve to death.

Noice wun Ann. I'm sure BanksiaPark are happy to have you on board.

Wow, that's just ... Wow ...

[spottychick]

The comments on Debra Tranter's website show the high level of disgust and opposition to the BanksiaPark puppy farm, a couple have posted in support of the farm but they haven't gone down well. This following supportive post seems indicative of the level of intelligence of puppy farmers and their supporters...

Ann Gilmour

Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

i think you all are a pile of idiots… the dogs are all cared for and fed for in the farm, ive been there and worked volentery for the hams family.. clearly if u eat meat i.e animals ur all talking trew ur asses cuz all animals or these days rased to make money. how would people live in the world if not. in places dogs a delocosy to eat. so a farmer that breeds cows for people to kill when they are fat enought is ok?? or hens that are caged that they cant move for eggs??? i can see in the pictures all the animals are clean and heathly shiney coats, they are not just tied up with a string left to starve were it does happen to poor dogs… the fact is just cuz people prefare to have a pet dog to a cow or donkey wats the difference?? yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down but whats the difference with any other animal that people do the same with??? at least they wernt dumped off sumwer to starve to death.

OMG That's so funny it's tragic!!

[ellies mum]

The comments on Debra Tranter's website show the high level of disgust and opposition to the BanksiaPark puppy farm, a couple have posted in support of the farm but they haven't gone down well. This following supportive post seems indicative of the level of intelligence of puppy farmers and their supporters...

Ann Gilmour

Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

i think you all are a pile of idiots… the dogs are all cared for and fed for in the farm, ive been there and worked volentery for the hams family.. clearly if u eat meat i.e animals ur all talking trew ur asses cuz all animals or these days rased to make money. how would people live in the world if not. in places dogs a delocosy to eat. so a farmer that breeds cows for people to kill when they are fat enought is ok?? or hens that are caged that they cant move for eggs??? i can see in the pictures all the animals are clean and heathly shiney coats, they are not just tied up with a string left to starve were it does happen to poor dogs… the fact is just cuz people prefare to have a pet dog to a cow or donkey wats the difference?? yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down but whats the difference with any other animal that people do the same with??? at least they wernt dumped off sumwer to starve to death.

OMG That's so funny it's tragic!!

Glad to see they have inteligent...heheheheh ppl as volleys there...

IDIOTS

[Prydenjoy]

Our pet shop used to just have "for sale" notices on the wall for puppies and kittens etc. They've crossed over to the dark side now, but at least they show pictures of the parents of the pups they sell, and often the picture will be of the mum with her pups all cozy in the house (not looking stressed like they've just been dumped there for a photo). Still, wouldn't those pups be better off all cozy in the house until they find their new homes? Nothing like meeting the parents of the puppy you are just about to bring home!!

[italmum]

Our pet shop used to just have "for sale" notices on the wall for puppies and kittens etc. They've crossed over to the dark side now, but at least they show pictures of the parents of the pups they sell, and often the picture will be of the mum with her pups all cozy in the house (not looking stressed like they've just been dumped there for a photo). Still, wouldn't those pups be better off all cozy in the house until they find their new homes? Nothing like meeting the parents of the puppy you are just about to bring home!!

True, very true!! I would definately not buy from a petshop, BUT i do think that alot of people fall for the "doe eyed lonely puppy in the window" it is sad to see any animal on display like that - and it pulls at our heartstrings. Viewing the parents of the dogs is such a big thing to do - it will atleast give you some sort of idea of potential temperament, having said that though...its down to the owners of the dogs, their behaviour will impact the dogs temperament.

[GAL]

Steve Austins proclamation that pet shops only source their puppies from registered breeders is what got me fuming.

He is either ignorant and has not bothered to educate himself about a subject that his Association (PIAA) has been so vocal about, or he just doesn't give a damn.

His comments should have be refuted as out right lies but for some reason were aired without question or validation.

Code of ethics of the ANKC and it's state branches:

26. A member shall not:

.1 Sell or dispose of a dog to a commercial pet wholesaler or retail pet shop unless they are accredited by the Pet Industry Association of Australia Limited (PIAA).

PIAA has only 3 Accredited PIAA retail outlets in NSW (2 of which are owned by PIAA board members) and 6 in the whole of Australia. Here is the link to the relevant PIAA site page;

http://piaa.net.au/index.php?option=com_co...9&Itemid=79

Hmm, so where are the cute little puppies and kittens coming from?

Steve Austin should be ashamed. As a Delta Society dog trainer and as a pet free pet shop owner, I was totally disgusted with Austin when he became the talking head for PIAA. I didn't think it was possible for me to trust him any less, but I was wrong.

[Mystiqview]

The comments on Debra Tranter's website show the high level of disgust and opposition to the BanksiaPark puppy farm, a couple have posted in support of the farm but they haven't gone down well. This following supportive post seems indicative of the level of intelligence of puppy farmers and their supporters...

Ann Gilmour

Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

i think you all are a pile of idiots… the dogs are all cared for and fed for in the farm, ive been there and worked volentery for the hams family.. clearly if u eat meat i.e animals ur all talking trew ur asses cuz all animals or these days rased to make money. how would people live in the world if not. in places dogs a delocosy to eat. so a farmer that breeds cows for people to kill when they are fat enought is ok?? or hens that are caged that they cant move for eggs??? i can see in the pictures all the animals are clean and heathly shiney coats, they are not just tied up with a string left to starve were it does happen to poor dogs… the fact is just cuz people prefare to have a pet dog to a cow or donkey wats the difference?? yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down but whats the difference with any other animal that people do the same with??? at least they wernt dumped off sumwer to starve to death.

Noice wun Ann. I'm sure BanksiaPark are happy to have you on board.

Intelligence... hmmm I think the brains when that person was born was bi-passed.

Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity (and bad grammar)

[Prydenjoy]

The saddest thing is that many people buy these pets because they feel sorry for them, thus opening up another spot for another puppy and so the cycle continues. It's hard for people to turn their back on something they feel pity for, but in this case they have to!

GAL, very interesting... Nothing like a blatant lie on national TV huh?

I'm still stuck at trying to believe or comprehend the fact that they actually allowed registered dog breeding businesses. I mean, seriously, WTF???

[mita]

The comments on Debra Tranter's website show the high level of disgust and opposition to the BanksiaPark puppy farm, a couple have posted in support of the farm but they haven't gone down well. This following supportive post seems indicative of the level of intelligence of puppy farmers and their supporters...

Ann Gilmour

Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

i think you all are a pile of idiots… the dogs are all cared for and fed for in the farm, ive been there and worked volentery for the hams family.. clearly if u eat meat i.e animals ur all talking trew ur asses cuz all animals or these days rased to make money. how would people live in the world if not. in places dogs a delocosy to eat. so a farmer that breeds cows for people to kill when they are fat enought is ok?? or hens that are caged that they cant move for eggs??? i can see in the pictures all the animals are clean and heathly shiney coats, they are not just tied up with a string left to starve were it does happen to poor dogs… the fact is just cuz people prefare to have a pet dog to a cow or donkey wats the difference?? yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down but whats the difference with any other animal that people do the same with??? at least they wernt dumped off sumwer to starve to death.

Noice wun Ann. I'm sure BanksiaPark are happy to have you on board.

'Wats the difference?'...between a pet dog & a donkey or cow...asks Ann. I'll try to make it easy:

A dog has been dom-est-ic-ated for a few thousand years to be a close com-pan-ion animal with humans.

To make that work as well as possible, puppies & dogs need social-iz-ation & lots of ex-per-iences along-side humans.

That's why it's not good for dog wel-fare for them to be constant-ly con-fined to a pen, like live-stock.

Easy to grasp that dogs need a bowl of food.....takes higher cognitive ability to grasp the need for socialization.

[poodlefan]

yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down

Everyone get that one? I sure hope the RSPCA notes it.

From the mouths of bogans.. pure gold.

[Prydenjoy]

Easy to grasp that dogs need a bowl of food.....takes higher cognitive ability to grasp the need for socialization.

So true, I find the majority of people, even "doggy" people, don't quite get the need for socialization. Sad, very sad

[Lisa J Ryan]

Well for what its worth here's what I think.I think we should just stick to the issue - Its unacceptable for dogs to be battery farmed. Then lets talk about why - use the science and the facts.Forget about comments like the dogs look so sad because thats not going to take us anywhere.One will see sadness another will tell us how they have been bred for soft temperaments blah blah blah. If we want to address pet shop issues or euthanasia rates then deal with them separately because when we get caught with them altogether we open ourselves up to them discrediting what we say and when they get us on one it makes the whole issue seem fanatical. Personally, I think this is where Clover Moore failed and after sitting through 45 mins of being lectured by a puppy farmer on how to build better dogs [vomit] I reckon its time we changed tactics.

Steve Austin's Website

http://www.petresortsaustralia.com.au/PETR...s/c_contact.jsp

ANKC Judges

Mr STEVE AUSTIN

Remains active in judging and competing in field trials, throughout Australia.

PIAA

I called the PIAA head office (Sydney - 02 9659 5811) and confirmed :

Anyone can join PIAA and become a PIAA member. You are then bound by their Code of Ethics (the welfare stuff) which as you know is a crock.

For PIAA groomers, boarding kennels, breeders etc, if you are a PIAA member, you can then apply to be PIAA Accredited.

What this is in reality is :

You undergo an audit, which you must pass, when you first sign up to be accredited. Then you are subject to an audit every three years by an independent auditer (QLD) who do a 'mystery shop' on you. You also receive a %discount on Insurance.

NO DIFFERENCE or change to the Code of Ethics applied to a PIAA Member or a PIAA Accredited member. The only difference in being accreddited is the 'business' side ie you are are subject to OH & S, Workcover, staff training etc.

By their estimates there are approximately 2,500 pet stores in Australia. 350 of them are PIAA and of the 350, only 10 are accredited. Whether PIAA accredited or not, it makes NO DIFFERENCE to how the animals are treated from a welfare perspective. Total of approximately 10 PIAA accredited pet shops in Australia and a total 20 approximately accredited commercial pet wholesalers in Australia. The figure of 20 includes cats, dogs, reptiles, fish etc. Also bear in mind that the accredited commercial pet wholesalers in Australia may already be members of other associations ie Dogs Victoria etc.

Below is ANKC Code of Ethics - this applies to all states and all ANKC registered breeders ie me with Dogs Victoria

26. A member shall not:

.1 Sell or dispose of a dog to a commercial pet wholesaler or retail pet shop unless they are accredited by the Pet Industry Association of Australia Limited (PIAA).

Steve Austin

http://www.govegan.com.au/puppies/?p=280

http://www.govegan.com.au/puppies/?p=278

ACA/Banksia Park

http://www.govegan.com.au/puppies/?p=267

http://www.govegan.com.au/puppies/?p=208

http://www.govegan.com.au/puppies/?p=242

As a responsible and registered ANKC breeder/exhibitor and one involved in rescue/rehoming, I will be writing to complain to the ANKC re section 26.1 and Steve Austin. I DO NOT WISH TO BE ASSOCAITED IN THE ANKC WITH THE LIKES OF THE STEVE AUSTINS' IN A BODY I PAY A MEMBERSHIP FEE FOR.

[justin19801]

The comments on Debra Tranter's website show the high level of disgust and opposition to the BanksiaPark puppy farm, a couple have posted in support of the farm but they haven't gone down well. This following supportive post seems indicative of the level of intelligence of puppy farmers and their supporters...

Ann Gilmour

Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

i think you all are a pile of idiots… the dogs are all cared for and fed for in the farm, ive been there and worked volentery for the hams family.. clearly if u eat meat i.e animals ur all talking trew ur asses cuz all animals or these days rased to make money. how would people live in the world if not. in places dogs a delocosy to eat. so a farmer that breeds cows for people to kill when they are fat enought is ok?? or hens that are caged that they cant move for eggs??? i can see in the pictures all the animals are clean and heathly shiney coats, they are not just tied up with a string left to starve were it does happen to poor dogs… the fact is just cuz people prefare to have a pet dog to a cow or donkey wats the difference?? yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down but whats the difference with any other animal that people do the same with??? at least they wernt dumped off sumwer to starve to death.

Noice wun Ann. I'm sure BanksiaPark are happy to have you on board.

'Wats the difference?'...between a pet dog & a donkey or cow...asks Ann. I'll try to make it easy:

A dog has been dom-est-ic-ated for a few thousand years to be a close com-pan-ion animal with humans.

To make that work as well as possible, puppies & dogs need social-iz-ation & lots of ex-per-iences along-side humans.

That's why it's not good for dog wel-fare for them to be constant-ly con-fined to a pen, like live-stock.

Easy to grasp that dogs need a bowl of food.....takes higher cognitive ability to grasp the need for socialization.

So why do the R$PCA force family pets to live unsocialised lives in cages? Animal cruelty like a puppy farm? Problem when we can't differentiate the abusers from the enforcers!

[justin19801]

yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down

Everyone get that one? I sure hope the RSPCA notes it.

From the mouths of bogans.. pure gold.

Something the R$PCA does to harmless family pets every day. Bogan animal haters, yes I'd agree with that.

[mita]

So why do the R$PCA force family pets to live unsocialised lives in cages? Animal cruelty like a puppy farm? Problem when we can't differentiate the abusers from the enforcers!

Both RSPCA & AWL here have activity programs for their dogs in care....& volunteer cuddlers & walkers. RSPCA here, way back, first went public with the fact that lack of early socialisation for puppy farm dogs has long-term adverse effects which can handicap the dogs as much as physical & health defects. Later research at UQ, supported their experience.

What is needed is for real-life examples to be got to the general public.... of why & how socialisation (& exposure to real-life experiences) shapes dogs to be successful companion dogs.

Best examples I've seen in the media have been the Pet Therapy team from Dogs Vic & the Military Dog training unit in Qld. Many people would think there'd be no comparison. But in socialising their dogs & in exposing their dogs to everyday experiences, both are exactly the same.

Person, who represented the Pet Therapy team, described their work on Radio National. The interviewer nearly fell off his chair as she described how the dogs who do the therapy work, are purebred Rottweilers, Great Danes etc (not just tiny fluffy ones).

'How can Rottweilers 'work' among the frail & elderly & sick & young?'

The woman (whose own dog is a Rottie in the team) explained how, first, generations of good decision-making goes into producing purebred dogs with temperaments as sound as their good looks.

And how raising the puppies & dogs, requires lots of contact with people....& exposing the dogs to all sorts of sights & sounds, within the home & in the wider environment.

Yet these dogs still continued their lives as 'show dogs'. In fact, that became a huge interest for the elderly people the dogs visited. They loved seeing the dogs come in....wearing ribbons they'd won, the weekend before, at a show.

Overall, she gave the best description of how to raise a companion dog, I've ever heard (as good as that given by the man who raises the military dogs).

In doing that, she also shattered preconceptions about BSL. Yes, these wonderful therapy dogs included Rotties....it's how dogs are bred & raised which counts in how they'll interact with humans....not simply their breed.

She also shattered the myth that 'show' dogs live a 'cruel', 'undoggie' life. These dogs were the best of showdogs & the best of companion dogs.

(I noted the name of this lady....she was brilliant on radio. Calmly spoken & articulate.)

The military dog trainer in Qld said all the same things in a magazine here. Military dogs have to foremost be good companion dogs for their handlers. So all the same elements went into their breeding & raising of pups & young dogs....as went into the Dogs Vic therapy dogs. Good decision-making about breeding.

Then socialisation from birth....& exposure to real life. First, happy puppy life around an Air Force Base (being pulled off passing ladies' flappy skirts). Then out to be fostered with families in homes.....living a full life as a young family pup. Before returning to the base for full training as military dogs.

Some clever producer should make a TV program which highlights both these.... Because both teach brilliantly the need for socialisation/experiences, the follies of BSL, the myths around 'show dogs'...& how companion dogs should be formed (whoever breeds/raises them)

http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Content.asp?ID=180

Edited April 6, 2010 by mita

[justin19801]

So why do the R$PCA force family pets to live unsocialised lives in cages? Animal cruelty like a puppy farm? Problem when we can't differentiate the abusers from the enforcers!

Both RSPCA & AWL here have activity programs for their dogs in care....& volunteer cuddlers & walkers. RSPCA here, way back, first went public with the fact that lack of early socialisation for puppy farm dogs has long-term adverse effects which can handicap the dogs as much as physical & health defects. Later research at UQ, supported their experience.

What is needed is for real-life examples to be got to the general public.... of why & how socialisation (& exposure to real-life experiences) shapes dogs to be successful companion dogs.

Best examples I've seen in the media have been the Pet Therapy team from Dogs Vic & the Military Dog training unit in Qld. Many people would think there'd be no comparison. But in socialising their dogs & in exposing their dogs to everyday experiences, both are exactly the same.

Person, who represented the Pet Therapy team, described their work on Radio National. The interviewer nearly fell off his chair as she described how the dogs who do the therapy work, are purebred Rottweilers, Great Danes etc (not just tiny fluffy ones).

'How can Rottweilers 'work' among the frail & elderly & sick & young?'

The woman (whose own dog is a Rottie in the team) explained how, first, generations of good decision-making goes into producing purebred dogs with temperaments as sound as their good looks.

And how raising the puppies & dogs, requires lots of contact with people....& exposing the dogs to all sorts of sights & sounds, within the home & in the wider environment.

Yet these dogs still continued their lives as 'show dogs'. In fact, that became a huge interest for the elderly people the dogs visited. They loved seeing the dogs come in....wearing ribbons they'd won, the weekend before, at a show.

Overall, she gave the best description of how to raise a companion dog, I've ever heard (as good as that given by the man who raises the military dogs).

In doing that, she also shattered preconceptions about BSL. Yes, these wonderful therapy dogs included Rotties....it's how dogs are bred & raised which counts in how they'll interact with humans....not simply their breed.

She also shattered the myth that 'show' dogs live a 'cruel', 'undoggie' life. These dogs were the best of showdogs & the best of companion dogs.

(I noted the name of this lady....she was brilliant on radio. Calmly spoken & articulate.)

The military dog trainer in Qld said all the same things in a magazine here. Military dogs have to foremost be good companion dogs for their handlers. So all the same elements went into their breeding & raising of pups & young dogs....as went into the Dogs Vic therapy dogs. Good decision-making about breeding.

Then socialisation from birth....& exposure to real life. First, happy puppy life around an Air Force Base (being pulled off passing ladies' flappy skirts). Then out to be fostered with families in homes.....living a full life as a young family pup. Before returning to the base for full training as military dogs.

Some clever producer should make a TV program which highlights both these.... Because both teach brilliantly the need for socialisation/experiences, the follies of BSL, the myths around 'show dogs'...& how companion dogs should be formed (whoever breeds/raises them)

http://www.dogsvictoria.org.au/Content.asp?ID=180

Yes an expose on how APBT owners are forced to keep their dogs in cages thanks to R$PCA is high on the agenda. As is their creation of kennels where family pets can be kept without social contact should also be exposed (Lonsdale is SA is a good place to start). As for dog cuddlers et al, pure media spin. They kill dogs, temperment test them to death I believe. More funds for the super programs and pension plans I guess.

[mita]

Easy to grasp that dogs need a bowl of food.....takes higher cognitive ability to grasp the need for socialization.

So true, I find the majority of people, even "doggy" people, don't quite get the need for socialization. Sad, very sad

Jeanne, I was mainly replying to your point that an understanding of socialisation & experiential learning needs to be got across to the general public.

To counter the idea (that's getting some traction) that sanitized puppy farms can be set up.