7.30 Report Abc To Do Expose On Dd Puppy Farms

[megan_]

I have to say that attending that seminar at Monash Uni and hearing what was said...

Starting a group to legitimise it all is being touted as a good thing because the theory is that we cant stop it so try to clean it up

What I heard about this idea of starting a 'clean up' group, sounded like another version where cleanliness, adequate food & shelter, & health care were seen as the essentials. But nothing was said about 2 critical issues re the breeding & homing of dogs as companion animals:

1. providing for socialisation & a range of experiences in the real world...for the dogs & puppies. Both essential to the development of dogs as companion animals;

2. breeder responsibility, at point of sale, to match puppies with owners, screen owners, provide settling in & maintenance advice & later support. Essential for the welfare of both dogs & new owners.

Both 1 & 2 are standard basics done by 'good' registered breeders. Australian research even confirms that claim for 1.

Absence of 1 & 2 demonstrate puppy farming, IMO.....whoever does it.

Also this group would continue to mix purebreds with health aims in view. However, I recently posted an excellent paper from the Norwegian Kennel Club & School of Veterinary Science which set out breeding practices with health aims in view.....while still only producing purebreds.

What is absent in Australia, is a public voice like that, representing the kennel clubs & another independent academic view.

This is the clincher - this is the next phase of the debate that we need to have now. Most puppy farmers project an image of rolling hills and cleanliness. But this isn't all that well-adjusted COMPANION breeds need. If we only focus on the "bad" puppy farmers with filthy diseased dogs, the large-scale commercial farmers will thrive.

A friend bought a dog from a farm recently. She told me that the dogs had 3 acres to run free in. She went and checked it out and the dogs looked well cared for and the operation looked very professional. Thing is, companion breeds don't need or want 3 acres to run around in, they want - need - a name, games, and interactions with their humans.

Whenever I see these stories I think of my Lucy. She was a breeding bitch at a very dodgy puppy farm and was rescued by the Schnauzer Club. After a few days in my home, she started coming into the house and trying to be with me. She was terrified - shaking, with darting eyes - but still wanted human interaction - it was in her breeding. When she saw me cuddle Fergus her tail wagged frantically. To this day, whenever I say her name, she gets excited.

[ellies mum]

I have to say that attending that seminar at Monash Uni and hearing what was said...

Starting a group to legitimise it all is being touted as a good thing because the theory is that we cant stop it so try to clean it up

What I heard about this idea of starting a 'clean up' group, sounded like another version where cleanliness, adequate food & shelter, & health care were seen as the essentials. But nothing was said about 2 critical issues re the breeding & homing of dogs as companion animals:

1. providing for socialisation & a range of experiences in the real world...for the dogs & puppies. Both essential to the development of dogs as companion animals;

2. breeder responsibility, at point of sale, to match puppies with owners, screen owners, provide settling in & maintenance advice & later support. Essential for the welfare of both dogs & new owners.

Both 1 & 2 are standard basics done by 'good' registered breeders. Australian research even confirms that claim for 1.

Absence of 1 & 2 demonstrate puppy farming, IMO.....whoever does it.

Also this group would continue to mix purebreds with health aims in view. However, I recently posted an excellent paper from the Norwegian Kennel Club & School of Veterinary Science which set out breeding practices with health aims in view.....while still only producing purebreds.

What is absent in Australia, is a public voice like that, representing the kennel clubs & another independent academic view.

This is the clincher - this is the next phase of the debate that we need to have now. Most puppy farmers project an image of rolling hills and cleanliness. But this isn't all that well-adjusted COMPANION breeds need. If we only focus on the "bad" puppy farmers with filthy diseased dogs, the large-scale commercial farmers will thrive.

A friend bought a dog from a farm recently. She told me that the dogs had 3 acres to run free in. She went and checked it out and the dogs looked well cared for and the operation looked very professional. Thing is, companion breeds don't need or want 3 acres to run around in, they want - need - a name, games, and interactions with their humans.

Whenever I see these stories I think of my Lucy. She was a breeding bitch at a very dodgy puppy farm and was rescued by the Schnauzer Club. After a few days in my home, she started coming into the house and trying to be with me. She was terrified - shaking, with darting eyes - but still wanted human interaction - it was in her breeding. When she saw me cuddle Fergus her tail wagged frantically. To this day, whenever I say her name, she gets excited.

And thats why we call the companian animal....to be with us....all the time...

its so sad for the "breeding bitches",,,,never to have a cuddle on the lounge...or a smile when they just give you the "I love you" look...

[mita]

Exactly, megan. Spot on examples of puppy farming....rolling hills or not, cleanliness or not.

The full quid offered by the 'good', experienced registered breeder of purebreds, needs to be brought to public attention. As the standard.

Oddly enough, the other group who provides the same standard in breeding/raising companion dogs, is the RAAF at Amberly in Qld, the source for military dogs. Which are first socialised & given full experience in the real world, living as companion pups....even spending time being fostered by families in homes.

Edited March 31, 2010 by mita

[Esky the husky]

To an extent its disappointing it was an ABC report.

The ABC audience demographic is probably not really the same demographic of those who go to puppy farms/ pet shops for their puppy purchase.

That's what OH said when it was over: Great report, but it needs to be on A Current Affair or Today Tonight.

I've been thinking that too. This is the kind of stuff that needs to go in girlfriend or dolly magazine

(I have the article half written out in my head already)

[mokhahouse]

Those slimy creeps at Banksia P P, bet they are rubbing their greedy hands together in glee waiting for the orders to roll in... but what they don't realise is that they have just exposed their own greed and revolting practices on national television. Hooray for the dense idiots.

PS..... You can send them a comment through their website too!!!! very handy

I could not believe what I was hearing. I just kept thinking I wonder how much socialisation, outings etc these hundreds of dogs get. How can they think this is OK. I could barely watch the whole thing. Being the owner of a poorly bred pet shop dog, (I would never buy one now I know better) it broke my heart thinking Mokha mum could still be out there breeding and breeding.

[Loving my Oldies]

Yes I know but what is so upsetting is that its now being made legitimate via people you wouldnt expect to support it and portraying that Banksia park kennel as something to be held up as doing the right thing by dogs.Even uni lecturers are touting a commercial puppy farmer as an expert on breeding dogs and allow her 45 mins in a seminar on building better dogs!

Steve Austin saying they only get dogs from registered breeders and people registered as breeding businesses is supposed to make it O.K?

Not for me.

Because of the so called "celebrity" status that people are so enamoured of today, this is a real problem. I also reject totally the concept of let's make it okay because we can't beat it.

What next: legalise murder because it will always be with it.

I hope in your position of the founder of MDBA, Steve, you a writing a very strongly worded correspondence to Steve Austintacious.

I've been thinking that too. This is the kind of stuff that needs to go in girlfriend or dolly magazine

(I have the article half written out in my head already)

Well get it out of your head, girl, and onto the page and into the mail. ;)

I was thrilled beyond measure when PetRescue and Madison Mag got together for a photo shoot on rescue dogs. I even participated with one of my own dogs and two rescue dogs brought up from PikesPooches. The end result was so disappointing I nearly cried. Just a heap of unattractive photos and no talk of the horrible situation some dogs come from.

[WoofnHoof]

And there goes any ounce of possible respect I may have had for Steve Austin. Will not be giving any recommendations for his kennels.

Wish they had of had a registered breeder on talking about the good they do, with health testing etc, to explain how the good ones do it right.

That's a good idea, I think someone from here should write into the 7:30 report offering to be interviewed about ethical dog breeding, offer a tour of their kennels to show what it should be like, it would be a great counter story to the PF one and showcase the ideal

This page has contact details for the producers and reporters if any breeders want to contact them ;)

Any breeders or reps contacted them? Perhaps rescue could ask to do a feature since the Easter school holiday period (aka peak dumping season) is almost upon us?

[yellowgirl]

I just googled Banskia Park and the first link was this:

http://www.govegan.com.au/puppies/?p=208

Thanks MM, I've added the link to my website

I agree it was the wrong demographic. However it's a start, now to get the ball rolling and have a 1 hour doco.

To inlclude the dump rate, the shelter/pound side , heath probs and then where to buy and how to find a good ethical breeder.

An hour documentary would be a brilliant idea. Maybe even a dvd could be made up so that breeders, rescues, shelters, shops that don't sell pets and the general public could distribute them.

I've often wondered about the possibility of Petshops using some kind of "referral" system to registered breeders??

They could list what will be available in the coming months for example?

And if they really feel the need for the "Puppies in the window" effect (I'll be honest I always love seeing puppies ALL KINDS) maybe they could have a rostered display where a breeder will bring along a litter for a day??

I guess the problem comes down to who gets the lions share of the profits??

Someone at work told me recently when they found out I had two Cavalier bitches that I could get up to $300 each for a puppy from a Pet Shop. I patiently explained the protocol of a Registered Breeder. They seemed to be enlightened.

I am the opposite, I hate seeing puppies in the window as it makes me so sad to see them cooped up there day after day on display ;) and knowing these poor pups have come from questionable breeding practices (i.e. puppyfarmers, BYB's, disreputable breeders) and then wondering what sort of homes these poor pups will end up in as so many are impulse buys ;)

That's me too Labsrule

I've been thinking that too. This is the kind of stuff that needs to go in girlfriend or dolly magazine

(I have the article half written out in my head already)

That's a great idea!

And Steve Austin, what a tool! He's now on my top ten biggest d*ckheads list

[Prydenjoy]

There's a pet shop in Tamworth that I get physically ill every time I go there and see the condition the dogs are in. Even the ones kept in better conditions, it's no place for a pup to be, especially right in the peak of its critical socialisation period. Staring at glass all day in such an abnormal, unhomely environment.

[Jed]

Whilst puppy farms are glorified by people like Don Burke, Steve Austin, veterinarians and academics, and puppy farmers are invited to seminars at universities as "guest speakers" the public is given very good reasons to believe they are suitable places to purchase pups.

And why not? On one hand, puppy farms are touted by "experts", on the other, registered purebred dogs are condemned by intensive TV programs.

It's not the conditions of puppy farms, it is that the premise of keeping dogs in those conditions is just wrong.

Nothing will justify a basic wrong, and the best husbandry in the world will not overcome the problems of how the dogs are kept.

[Loving my Oldies]

There's a pet shop in Tamworth that I get physically ill every time I go there and see the condition the dogs are in. Even the ones kept in better conditions, it's no place for a pup to be, especially right in the peak of its critical socialisation period. Staring at glass all day in such an abnormal, unhomely environment.

I hope you are reporting this, then.

[yellowgirl]

The comments on Debra Tranter's website show the high level of disgust and opposition to the BanksiaPark puppy farm, a couple have posted in support of the farm but they haven't gone down well. This following supportive post seems indicative of the level of intelligence of puppy farmers and their supporters...

Ann Gilmour

Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

i think you all are a pile of idiots… the dogs are all cared for and fed for in the farm, ive been there and worked volentery for the hams family.. clearly if u eat meat i.e animals ur all talking trew ur asses cuz all animals or these days rased to make money. how would people live in the world if not. in places dogs a delocosy to eat. so a farmer that breeds cows for people to kill when they are fat enought is ok?? or hens that are caged that they cant move for eggs??? i can see in the pictures all the animals are clean and heathly shiney coats, they are not just tied up with a string left to starve were it does happen to poor dogs… the fact is just cuz people prefare to have a pet dog to a cow or donkey wats the difference?? yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down but whats the difference with any other animal that people do the same with??? at least they wernt dumped off sumwer to starve to death.

Noice wun Ann. I'm sure BanksiaPark are happy to have you on board.

[LizT]

I've often wondered about the possibility of Petshops using some kind of "referral" system to registered breeders??

They could list what will be available in the coming months for example?

And if they really feel the need for the "Puppies in the window" effect (I'll be honest I always love seeing puppies ALL KINDS) maybe they could have a rostered display where a breeder will bring along a litter for a day??

I guess the problem comes down to who gets the lions share of the profits??

Someone at work told me recently when they found out I had two Cavalier bitches that I could get up to $300 each for a puppy from a Pet Shop. I patiently explained the protocol of a Registered Breeder. They seemed to be enlightened.

I am the opposite, I hate seeing puppies in the window as it makes me so sad to see them cooped up there day after day on display and knowing these poor pups have come from questionable breeding practices (i.e. puppyfarmers, BYB's, disreputable breeders) and then wondering what sort of homes these poor pups will end up in as so many are impulse buys

That's me too Labsrule

There are definitely mixed emotions when I see "Puppies in Pet Shop windows".

Mostly I am very concerned for the future of these dogs and I tell myself that most people are good and the puppies will go to good homes. Then there is anger at the industry that perpetuates the breeding of these animals.

I guess there is also a deep set "warm fuzzy' that comes with nice memories of looking at the 'puppies in the window' both with my parents and with my own children. I've never come across any puppies in poor conditions at a Pet Shop and whilst I DO NOT SUPPORT the sale of puppies in pet store I see that attraction. Many many people "Look, but don't buy". But obviously many people buy or there would be no call for the trade.

Live animals are a draw card, that's why Zoos are popular. I'm not sure where the compromise can be found but it must be out there. Nothing is EVER as simple as YES, we do, OR, NO, we don't.

[Steve]

Well for what its worth here's what I think.I think we should just stick to the issue - Its unacceptable for dogs to be battery farmed. Then lets talk about why - use the science and the facts.Forget about comments like the dogs look so sad because thats not going to take us anywhere.One will see sadness another will tell us how they have been bred for soft temperaments blah blah blah. If we want to address pet shop issues or euthanasia rates then deal with them separately because when we get caught with them altogether we open ourselves up to them discrediting what we say and when they get us on one it makes the whole issue seem fanatical. Personally, I think this is where Clover Moore failed and after sitting through 45 mins of being lectured by a puppy farmer on how to build better dogs [vomit] I reckon its time we changed tactics.

[bedazzledx2]

Kinda says it all doesn't it!!!!!!

The comments on Debra Tranter's website show the high level of disgust and opposition to the BanksiaPark puppy farm, a couple have posted in support of the farm but they haven't gone down well. This following supportive post seems indicative of the level of intelligence of puppy farmers and their supporters...

Ann Gilmour

Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

i think you all are a pile of idiots… the dogs are all cared for and fed for in the farm, ive been there and worked volentery for the hams family.. clearly if u eat meat i.e animals ur all talking trew ur asses cuz all animals or these days rased to make money. how would people live in the world if not. in places dogs a delocosy to eat. so a farmer that breeds cows for people to kill when they are fat enought is ok?? or hens that are caged that they cant move for eggs??? i can see in the pictures all the animals are clean and heathly shiney coats, they are not just tied up with a string left to starve were it does happen to poor dogs… the fact is just cuz people prefare to have a pet dog to a cow or donkey wats the difference?? yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down but whats the difference with any other animal that people do the same with??? at least they wernt dumped off sumwer to starve to death.

Noice wun Ann. I'm sure BanksiaPark are happy to have you on board.

[corvus]

My workmate used to work for the RSPCA in a managerial position and they tell me there's no way Steve Austin could know if puppies from pet shops are coming into shelters from the microchip information as he claimed on national television. I'm told said information is quite probably years behind by now, and Steve Austin would know it. My workmate used to work in a large NSW shelter, and asserts that they got just as many pet shop puppies as anything else surrendered, if not more. Maybe someone ought to make Austin have to eat his words...

[Katdogs]

My workmate used to work for the RSPCA in a managerial position and they tell me there's no way Steve Austin could know if puppies from pet shops are coming into shelters from the microchip information as he claimed on national television. I'm told said information is quite probably years behind by now, and Steve Austin would know it. My workmate used to work in a large NSW shelter, and asserts that they got just as many pet shop puppies as anything else surrendered, if not more. Maybe someone ought to make Austin have to eat his words...

I was thinking about this. I'm not sure about other states, but in NSW all pups are meant to be microchipped before sale, and I'm sure most 'professional' breeders will stay on the right side of this law. However, do the chips actually have to have any details recorded against them? Aren't puppy buyers given rego forms/advice, not change of ownership? I've heard of lots of dogs that are found in pounds to have chips but no details.

[ellies mum]

My workmate used to work for the RSPCA in a managerial position and they tell me there's no way Steve Austin could know if puppies from pet shops are coming into shelters from the microchip information as he claimed on national television. I'm told said information is quite probably years behind by now, and Steve Austin would know it. My workmate used to work in a large NSW shelter, and asserts that they got just as many pet shop puppies as anything else surrendered, if not more. Maybe someone ought to make Austin have to eat his words...

On the 7.30 report would be good....eat those words...

[Christina]

The comments on Debra Tranter's website show the high level of disgust and opposition to the BanksiaPark puppy farm, a couple have posted in support of the farm but they haven't gone down well. This following supportive post seems indicative of the level of intelligence of puppy farmers and their supporters...

Ann Gilmour

Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

i think you all are a pile of idiots… the dogs are all cared for and fed for in the farm, ive been there and worked volentery for the hams family.. clearly if u eat meat i.e animals ur all talking trew ur asses cuz all animals or these days rased to make money. how would people live in the world if not. in places dogs a delocosy to eat. so a farmer that breeds cows for people to kill when they are fat enought is ok?? or hens that are caged that they cant move for eggs??? i can see in the pictures all the animals are clean and heathly shiney coats, they are not just tied up with a string left to starve were it does happen to poor dogs… the fact is just cuz people prefare to have a pet dog to a cow or donkey wats the difference?? yes the dogs that wer to old to breed may have been put down but whats the difference with any other animal that people do the same with??? at least they wernt dumped off sumwer to starve to death.

Noice wun Ann. I'm sure BanksiaPark are happy to have you on board.

I would be if it wasn't all so sad.

Glad they published that one, it shows the mentality & will not go far in influencing people to get a puppy from there.

What an attitude though.

[Steve]

My workmate used to work for the RSPCA in a managerial position and they tell me there's no way Steve Austin could know if puppies from pet shops are coming into shelters from the microchip information as he claimed on national television. I'm told said information is quite probably years behind by now, and Steve Austin would know it. My workmate used to work in a large NSW shelter, and asserts that they got just as many pet shop puppies as anything else surrendered, if not more. Maybe someone ought to make Austin have to eat his words...

I was thinking about this. I'm not sure about other states, but in NSW all pups are meant to be microchipped before sale, and I'm sure most 'professional' breeders will stay on the right side of this law. However, do the chips actually have to have any details recorded against them? Aren't puppy buyers given rego forms/advice, not change of ownership? I've heard of lots of dogs that are found in pounds to have chips but no details.

In NSW pet shops have an exemption with the micro - chipping laws.

A breeder is required to chip the pup at time of sale or 12 weeks which ever comes first but when they sell them to a pet shop thats not required as the pet shop holds them and chips them into the new owners name.

The stats I saw and I cant remember where in NSW show that most dogs which come in are not chipped so someone is breeding them - lots of them and not chipping them at point of sale.

Its been law in NSW now since around 1996 so if majority are coming in with no chips it is logical that they are not being sold via pet shops in NSW.

If everyone was to be legally made to chip into the breeders name or the person who whelped the litter [ such as rescue] at 6 weeks and then changed over to new owner at point of sale then it would be a simple case to see who is breeding them and where they are coming from.

But its never been policed so regardless of the fine print it wont help unless they pull their fingers out and ensure the laws they have are followed.

The point is if the stats are right and only about 10 percent of dogs in pounds are chipped then assuming pet shops are chipping into the new owners name its not them so when Steve Austin says this he can pretty well prove it = if we all agree that pet shops are more likely to be following chip laws than most anyone else.

Therefore - let it go because they will continue to use it to make out we are all a bunch of rednecks and go after puppy farms and battery style dog farming first.