Ok- Lets Have Some Fun!

[gillybob]

Loulou came to me with SA.

She would just go crazy if I left the house., even though she had Bob and Gilly with her.

So I did the going out for a few minutes thing.

Slowly she got used to it.

My problem is I am only really away from her one day a week.

She will some times leave a poo in my room when I go to Tafe.

But we are working on that.

I throw a hand full of dry food around when i leave, so they are busy when I go.

Edited March 27, 2010 by gillybob

[jacqui835]

only people suffer from seperation anxiety, who ulimately cause undesirable behaviour in dogs

Working on boosting confidence, I agree with the first post. The issue is that my dog doesn't think he can function without me, he won't even eat. Rest of the time he is fine, confident on walks etc. Just doesn't think he can do it alone.

Working on it though. I still leave him alone, I still don't say goodbye or make a fuss when I return.

[Aidan]

only people suffer from seperation anxiety, who ulimately cause undesirable behaviour in dogs

"Only people"? That's a rather arbitrary limit that excludes a lot of the evidence available.

[OSoSwift]

I do have some seperation anxiety issues that are getting better.

The main reason that as a youngster the dog was not taught that it is okay to be by yourself.

In the beginning just to be put in the dog run to train the other dog who was 2 metres away resulted in a screaming dog who was trying to tear down chain mesh. Now the dog can deal with that with some whingin, but I don't think would be up to say being put in the dog run and the other dog taken away in the car to the vets or something.

I am still working on it as when I am at dog training said dog whinges, barks and screams while I am trying to work the other dog. It has improved but still on going at this stage. It is a pain in the bum as I have to think about consequences if the other dog is sick and needs to go to the vet for any length of time.

There is also a lesser degree of seperation anxiety from me - but no where near to the level as from other dogs. If I am around but the other dog gone all is fine. There is be some whinging/pacing if the dogs are left inside with the rest of the family and I have to leave or be away for any period of time.

We have come a long way but as I say still working on it

[GotAnyBlacker]

Our greyhound boy (not permanent addition by our choice) has it quite badly I think. He can't be left alone at all. He gets walked seperately first, then OH and I take the girls for a walk and as soon as we leave the house he starts barkin and we can hear it down the street. He's always inside and never left outside alone (should I start leaving him out there alone on occasion? a couple of times I've accidentally locked him outside though cause I didnt know he was out there and he's been quiet as a mouse for 2 hours and this was at night time both times).

When we were out walking he has eaten the front door frame really really badly and has started on the front window (which is the main focal point of the room and he's eaten 3 out of 4 frames on the bottom).

He's also eaten one of the door frames in a bedroom I left him in a couple of times when I went out, even though the door was open with a gate on it and he could see the girls.

He is happy enough if we go out and the girls are home with him, as happens everyday but the girls can get outside through a dog door to outside and he is inside all day and he doesnt bark and cry when they go out as he knows where they are. They go out and in as they please.

The other day though we just took one of the girls for a walk and he was home with the other and he still barked.

I dont pay him a particularly great amount of attention but I feed him and walk him and OH walks him too. I dont baby him, he doesnt sit on the couch, he doesnt get molly coddled I dont think.

He does sleep in our room though, as do the girls. Should we start making him sleep in the lounge?

(he's been rehomed twice and is a boomerang. Anyone want a greyhound? He's not that bad really :laugh: )

Edited March 28, 2010 by GotAnyBlacker

[stormie]

Agree that a lot of it can come down to the behaviour of the owners. So many of our clients who have really anxious dogs, are quite anxious themselves and make a huge deal of everything that's going on.

But, I do wonder if some dogs have the personality to go that way or not. For example, I am with Orbit most of the time. And I'm not going to lie, when I go out, I do say goodbye to him and tell him I'll be back soon etc etc. I tell him he's staying here and he genuinely seems to understand that as rather than coming to the door, he'll hang back and go back to bed. He has no separation issues at all. I go out and he puts himself to bed and sleeps until I come back. I wonder if its because when I'm saying goodbye to him, I'm not feeling any amount of worry or stress, so even though I'm saying all that, he senses no tension from me and thus is ok with it? Or am I just lucky that me making a deal of saying goodbye hasn't affected him?

I should add too, that from a puppy he has come to work with me. He had a bed in our staff room which I had to walk through many times during the day. Could this action of me always coming and going helped to ensure he wasn't anxious about me leaving?

[~Shepherd~]

its not just the owner as an individual, it can be the environment created by the owner.

[spottychick]

He does sleep in our room though, as do the girls. Should we start making him sleep in the lounge?

I'm no expert, but I would guess suddenly making him sleep in the lounge would just add to his anxiety. Just my thought.

[newfsie]

When I first started re-training my newf rescue she was people and dog aggressive and not potty trained. So i used the umbilical system on her to keep 100% watch on her. She was extremely anxious and stressed when i first started leaving her to go to work. But by doing lots of obedience training and agility training and off leash training when she became reliable, we completely went past this. I can now leave her for up to nine hours plus in the house......... And even out of site sit stays now, when initially even three feet away was too much. I think training gives a dog confidence and structure. So far I have been lucky enough not to have had any pups that anxiety. Mind you it is usually not a newfy thing

[Erny]

Just to add to what I've already mentioned, I think the more common "label" that is now used is "Separation Related Behaviour" as this label covers SA as well as other behaviours that relate to separation but aren't SA in the more true sense.

[Aidan]

its not just the owner as an individual, it can be the environment created by the owner.

So what about owners of two or more dogs where only one dog suffers from SA?

[Erny]

Aidan - I don't think Chewbacca was suggesting EVERY case of SA is an owner created issue. Although in my experience, many are. In relation to your above post (directed to Chewbacca, hope you don't mind me adding my 2 cents), some dogs are genetically pre-disposed to SA and/or SRB's. What the owner does with that genetically pre-disposed dog can be the 'make or break' as to whether SA becomes an issue (or an issue to any grand scale of concern). So just because an owner has (eg) 3 dogs, treats all the same but only one has SA doesn't mean the SA wasn't an owner created situation.

A post in this thread already describes a person who always says good-bye etc etc. to her dog, and has no issues regards to SA. Put a different dog in that situation and those same actions may well bring out SA. Take that same 'different' dog and don't do all the fussing and SA might well have a chance of being averted. The propensity is still there, but it's what we do with it that can make a difference.

But I agree there are just some dogs that are that way inclined no matter the effort (even from first acquisition) that goes towards avoiding SA issues.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Erny

[Aidan]

Aidan - I don't think Chewbacca was suggesting EVERY case of SA is an owner created issue.

This is what I'm trying to determine, Chewbacca said "only people suffer from seperation anxiety, who ulimately cause undesirable behaviour in dogs" - which reads to me as a statement that SA has it's basis entirely in "nurture". Certainly the statement itself leaves no room for "nature".

But I agree there are just some dogs that are that way inclined no matter the effort (even from first acquisition) that goes towards avoiding SA issues.

Yes, which is why I jab the hot poker a little when I hear people say stuff like "it's anxious owners who create separation anxiety in dogs" or "dogs aren't born aggressive, they're made that way". It can cause a considerable amount of personal guilt and anguish in people who really just have had the deck stacked against them. I've also seen people rule out what would be an appropriate use of medication because they don't understand that some dogs just can't cope normally even if their environment is in order.

[Loraine]

Zedley hates to be left at home. He is not bored, he can get in and out of the house. If he kicks up my neighbours know that if they call his name and tell him to zip it, he will stop.

I think it is payback for not taking him with me. He usually gets to come out with me most times.

[~Shepherd~]

Aidan - I don't think Chewbacca was suggesting EVERY case of SA is an owner created issue.

This is what I'm trying to determine, Chewbacca said "only people suffer from seperation anxiety, who ulimately cause undesirable behaviour in dogs" - which reads to me as a statement that SA has it's basis entirely in "nurture". Certainly the statement itself leaves no room for "nature".

But I agree there are just some dogs that are that way inclined no matter the effort (even from first acquisition) that goes towards avoiding SA issues.

Yes, which is why I jab the hot poker a little when I hear people say stuff like "it's anxious owners who create separation anxiety in dogs" or "dogs aren't born aggressive, they're made that way". It can cause a considerable amount of personal guilt and anguish in people who really just have had the deck stacked against them. I've also seen people rule out what would be an appropriate use of medication because they don't understand that some dogs just can't cope normally even if their environment is in order.

thats right erny, people dont create a dogs personality, but they can most certainly suppress or arouse it.

[Zug Zug]

Hmm. I don't agree that SA is always created by the owners. I have 2 dogs - only one of them suffers from SA. It is generally manageable because her main trouble is when she is separated from our other dog. But when the other dog is out (with me, or at the vet or whatever) she either needs to be with one of us, or she is utterly distraught. Cries and cries and cries and doesn't stop. It's not payback - she is genuinely riddled with anxiety.

We are dreading the day when our other dog dies - not just because we'll lose him but also because of what it could do to her.

It's not us. We're not fuss-pot owners. She's just wired up that way.

[~Shepherd~]

Hmm. I don't agree that SA is always created by the owners. I have 2 dogs - only one of them suffers from SA. It is generally manageable because her main trouble is when she is separated from our other dog. But when the other dog is out (with me, or at the vet or whatever) she either needs to be with one of us, or she is utterly distraught. Cries and cries and cries and doesn't stop. It's not payback - she is genuinely riddled with anxiety.

We are dreading the day when our other dog dies - not just because we'll lose him but also because of what it could do to her.

It's not us. We're not fuss-pot owners. She's just wired up that way.

was it always this way? from the day you added a 2nd dog?

[Bubitty]

I dont know if my dogs are just naturally quite chilled about being alone but since the day I got them I have done my best to make sure they cope when I am at work.

In the very beginning I started by leaving the house for very short periods and leaving them with a bowl of soup or a small piece of cake and a nice bone hoping that they would associated yummy things with being alone. Then I left them for longer periods, still with treats and treasures.

With Bitty, even though she and Bubby adore each other I make sure they get a separate afternoon walk every day and I make Bitty spend most days at home separated from Bubby just so that she can stand on her own and cope without "Brother" always having to be around.

That said, I do wonder if its just nature. They don't get ruffled over much really so to me it doesn't seem like they are the type who will get upset over being left alone.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

"Separation Anxiety" is used to describe a range of behavioural issues and I think it's a good idea to specifically describe the behaviour before putting a label on it or trying to treat it.

I try and separate out two main clusters - one the mostly environment driven fixable stuff which I often call "mild SA" and the second the full (usually genetically based) disaster where the dog isn't anywhere near in full possession of itself and can't cope, even with medication.

Really serious SA is no easy fix matter and I've known people who aren't hopelessly soft who haven't been able to fix it in rescue dogs. PTS is sometimes the only option for a dog that literally cannot cope on its own and does things like tearing out its teeth and claws trying to escape, chewing through doors and walls, etc etc.

I recently got on top of it in a rescue and I've trained it out of a puppy but I'm no genius and the issues were mild - to me. I see a dog shitting itself and paw painting its crate as one of those things, rather than an indication that the world is coming to an end, for example. Perhaps someone else would see that as a deal breaker, I don't know. In both cases they stopped with basic training.

I have no doubt tho' that if it was a very serious case I like most people would NOT have been able to fix it. I understand what Chewy is saying - a lot of it is owner mediated - but some of it just isn't and is hard wired into a doggie brain that is basically a prison for the poor dog concerned. A useful test I once learned from someone a lot more cluey than me is to listen to the barking/wailing. If it is a constant stream of distressed vocalising then it's probably SA. if it's "bark bark bark, wait if they come back, bark bark bark, wait, maybe they'll come back, bark bark bark, OK I'm bored I think I'll chew this stick instead" then it's probably just the dog seeing how far it can train you.

Edited for spelling

Edited March 29, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[gillybob]

I dont think the fact that some rescues have many homes, helps much either.

Loulou came to me when she was 18 months, her family just didnt want her anymore.

Knowing her now, that must have been terrible for her.

She is a one person dog.

She has many issues, but we seem to be working out her SA.

I am wondering how us moveing to our own home will affect her.

Will I have to start again.

Any suggestions?