Ok- Lets Have Some Fun!

[persephone]

What exactly do you think it is? Do we all have the right idea?

I am Confused!!

Edited March 27, 2010 by persephone

[Erny]

Perse .... I could have checked a couple of things in your poll, but they don't really give the description I would.

Through the over-use/over-diagnosis of "Separation Anxiety" I think the condition description has become watered down in the minds of many over the while. Separation Anxiety is when the dog has such a strong attachment to a particular person/animal that it does not believe it can function normally in the absence of that particular person/animal.

This is different to things such as the less complex (but not to suggest non-problematic - for dog and owner) anxiety at being left alone; anxiety at denied access.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Erny

[persephone]

Thanks, erny :D (that's why I put "OTHER" - so the wise could fill us in ) !!

[~Shepherd~]

only people suffer from seperation anxiety, who ulimately cause undesirable behaviour in dogs

[mantis]

What exactly do you think it is? Do we all have the right idea?

I am Confused!!

HA HA, good thread. I voted 3, 4 & 5 in the first poll, the other polls I couldn't relate to.

Yes I know, my dog is a spoiled big bugger.

[all that glitters]

only people suffer from seperation anxiety, who ulimately cause undesirable behaviour in dogs

God, that is SO me :D I am a shocker

[Bindii]

There are different types... as far as i'm concerned.

There's a dog that's bored - so, not enough stimulation (walks, toys etc etc) and a dog that has true anxiety - just as people can.

Each need to be treated differently, and perhaps it's hard to tell which is which so start with the basics, ensure the dog is walked frequently, has plenty of toys and that there isn't something in particular that a dog is barking at - a barking dog doesn't always mean it is anxious, it could just be barking at a particular bird chirp or someone walking down their street and they can see it.

I think exercising is a huge thing.. i know my dogs will sleep for hours after a walk. I recommend that to people often - walk the dog in the morning, it will sleep while you're away!

If all measures have been taken (Including leaving the dog inside - because i reckon 9/10 that would fix everything in the barking dog) then perhaps the dog does have real anxiety, it wont just have a nap while you're out because it's tired, and perhaps it does need to be treated with medication. It's not nice to think the dog is anxious the whole time you're out, and you can't send them to therapy like a person.

ETA: Erny, i had never thought of it like that but it's very true! In that case, my pug has true seperation anxiety (with me - no one else) but not the normal 'left alone' anxiety. He is perfectly fine when he knows that i'm out and gone from the house (check frequently with the neighbours... and also cos he takes up top position on the couch as i go to the door) but if he can see or hear me, but can't reach me he cries and whinges. He has on the odd occasion frothed at the mouth and had soaking wet front legs from the anxiety of being separated. I never know what to call his anxiety, but you're right.. he literally has 'separation' anxiety.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Bindii

[Danois]

only people suffer from seperation anxiety, who ulimately cause undesirable behaviour in dogs

:D

I have no anxiety at all leaving my dog when I go to work/ leave the house - same cannot be said for the dog. At some times (but not always) he will not sleep, not eat, chew things and 'panic' bark.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Danois

[mantis]

only people suffer from seperation anxiety, who ulimately cause undesirable behaviour in dogs

:D

I have no anxiety at all leaving my dog when I go to work/ leave the house - same cannot be said for the dog. At some times (but not always) he will not sleep, not eat, chew things and 'panic' bark.

Agree with you, I have owned many dogs & Kenny is the only one who has destroyed things when left alone.

[Erny]

only people suffer from seperation anxiety, who ulimately cause undesirable behaviour in dogs

:D ..... there is so much truth in that. Not all truth, but much. I have worked with many people who don't realise their molly coddling is something they are doing for themselves - their dog doesn't need it.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Erny

[Erny]

ETA: Erny, i had never thought of it like that but it's very true! In that case, my pug has true seperation anxiety (with me - no one else) but not the normal 'left alone' anxiety. He is perfectly fine when he knows that i'm out and gone from the house (check frequently with the neighbours... and also cos he takes up top position on the couch as i go to the door) but if he can see or hear me, but can't reach me he cries and whinges. He has on the odd occasion frothed at the mouth and had soaking wet front legs from the anxiety of being separated. I never know what to call his anxiety, but you're right.. he literally has 'separation' anxiety.

Either you have misunderstood me, or I'm misunderstanding you.

No - if it were Separation Anxiety your pug would not be fine when he knows you are out and gone from the house. Sounds to me he is not accustomed to denied access. In either case, practising the art of "leadership" (ie yours) is one of the platforms I'd be addressing.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Erny

[Bindii]

ETA: Erny, i had never thought of it like that but it's very true! In that case, my pug has true seperation anxiety (with me - no one else) but not the normal 'left alone' anxiety. He is perfectly fine when he knows that i'm out and gone from the house (check frequently with the neighbours... and also cos he takes up top position on the couch as i go to the door) but if he can see or hear me, but can't reach me he cries and whinges. He has on the odd occasion frothed at the mouth and had soaking wet front legs from the anxiety of being separated. I never know what to call his anxiety, but you're right.. he literally has 'separation' anxiety.

Either you have misunderstood me, or I'm misunderstanding you.

No - if it were Separation Anxiety your pug would not be fine when he knows you are out and gone from the house.

What would you call it then, when it's only literally a wall or window or cage bars separating us that sets him off? It is only me. OH can put him outside and clean the whole house, if i'm there, he's screams and cries and froths about being separated.

[Teebs]

Hmm, The last answer i wasnt sure what to put

Kaos gets SA when left alone alone, she is fine with me going, she is fine with Atlas going and me staying, but if Atlas and I both go she goes into panic mode.

I usually put her inside with the cats and she is fine with them, so she only gets worked up when she is totally on her own.

[all that glitters]

I lessened my girls panic barking by doing regular test lock-ups... 3 or 4 a day for a week or two. I got her down from panic barking and yelping really loud to hardly even a whimper when I leave now. Short 5-10 minute lock up sessions, coupled with returning without emotion and acting very calm and 'whatever'. IT really works! She is also a lot more content being locked indoors rather than having outdoor access... with outdoor access she will run outside and sit in the middle of the yard and bark her head off non stop for 5 minutes. But being indoors she will not make a peep and will eat her bones and sleep, her toys are barely even touched! I have spied on her a few times when outdoor access and after her barking spell she will go inside and lay on her favorite couch that gives her a view of the front gate - it seems to be the one thing she ALWAYS does after we leave, she goes straight to that couch and will lay on it, waiting. But not just staring at the gate, often just looking into the room she's in. So it's not like she's glaring at the gate the whole time. Yes, I've done a lot of spying

Even saying that, the worst she has ever been is 100% vocal, never physical damage or destruction. Everyone says to me "well you got a shepherd, what do you expect!" but it was still awful hearing her cry and bark in a frenzy. Which brings me to the question -- is 5 minutes of panic barking separation anxiety or just sooking? Either way I am SO glad I haven't heard her doing that for a while now :D *touchwood*

I've wondered something else -- if a dog gets comfortable being alone (as mine just has recently) how can I maintain that level of comfort, can ANY dog get separation anxiety.... either as a new problem or pre-existing problem that returns? Like should every single dog owner be like "My dog doesn't have separation anxiety.... yet!"

[Erny]

What would you call it then, when it's only literally a wall or window or cage bars separating us that sets him off? It is only me. OH can put him outside and clean the whole house, if i'm there, he's screams and cries and froths about being separated.

Without seeing your dog and running by your description, it sounds to me as though he has not been taught denied access from you. He sees you and insists that he be with you when he does. Chances are, there is learnt behaviour there too. He 'created' and somehow or other he gained access to you. It can escalate from there and anxiety at not being able to obtain what he is used to being able to obtain, builds. Practice leadership. Calm. Assertive. Boundaries/rules. Consistency. And I don't mean in the practice of "denied access". I mean generally. In fact I'd start with "generally" (ie your day to day interactions). I don't know what they are, but just to give an example : if he is used to always having a cuddle with you on the couch, stop making that an every day occurrence. Randomise the practice. Note that this is only one example. It's about things being on your terms and not your pug being able to think it is on his terms. Have him work for things that he receives (that he likes). When that's all good and he understands that it is about your terms, not his, then I'd begin teaching him that being away from you even though you're there is ok too.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Erny

[Erny]

Which brings me to the question -- is 5 minutes of panic barking separation anxiety or just sooking?

If she stops after 5 minutes, I would not categorise that as Separation Anxiety.

I've wondered something else -- if a dog gets comfortable being alone (as mine just has recently) how can I maintain that level of comfort, can ANY dog get separation anxiety.... either as a new problem or pre-existing problem that returns? Like should every single dog owner be like "My dog doesn't have separation anxiety.... yet!" :D

I think it can develop. And I strongly believe it rests in leadership issues. Not to suggest that a practised, really intensely separation anxious dog will suddenly come better with leadership, but I do believe that leadership forms a platform if it is ever to be possible to improve.

[Snout Girl]

we've been lucky never having had to deal with seperation anxiety.

from the moment we got the the dogs we knew we had to work. there is no choice, bills need to be paid.

so we just took the attitude that we have no other options at the moment, no use feeling guilty or making a song and dance about it and our dogs have always been fine (and they are not always together during the day).

[Erny]

from the moment we got the the dogs we knew we had to work. there is no choice, bills need to be paid.

Glad that worked for you. The only thing is that sometimes it doesn't - not if done suddenly and soon after the pup is already experiencing distress at having been drawn away from its litter and brought to an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar people. It is best (IMO) done somewhat more gradually, but definitely not by means of (eg) 2 weeks off work, all the time spent playing and looking after pup and then 'poof !!' all of a sudden back to work. Some of the time off work needs to be spent getting pup used to it being ok to be by itself and also getting it used to understanding that (eg) being outside when the people are inside (and/or vise versa) is ok too.

... and they are not always together during the day.

:D And that's great! There are so many problems with multi-dog households who never teach their dogs it is ok to be away from each other.

[Snout Girl]

from the moment we got the the dogs we knew we had to work. there is no choice, bills need to be paid.

Glad that worked for you. The only thing is that sometimes it doesn't - not if done suddenly and soon after the pup is already experiencing distress at having been drawn away from its litter and brought to an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar people. It is best (IMO) done somewhat more gradually, but definitely not by means of (eg) 2 weeks off work, all the time spent playing and looking after pup and then 'poof !!' all of a sudden back to work. Some of the time off work needs to be spent getting pup used to it being ok to be by itself and also getting it used to understanding that (eg) being outside when the people are inside (and/or vise versa) is ok too.

100% right erny. we did it as a gradual thing over a few days- extending the period we left them alone, having someone visit during the day, mixing up the work schedules for a bit. after all, they were only babies. we didnt take 2 weeks off, we did have a few days tho.

we made the decision not to have the dogs together all the time as we didnt want them to bond more with each other than with us and it was something recommended to us by a dog trainer. And it seems to have worked.

[mantis]

we've been lucky never having had to deal with seperation anxiety.

from the moment we got the the dogs we knew we had to work. there is no choice, bills need to be paid.

so we just took the attitude that we have no other options at the moment, no use feeling guilty or making a song and dance about it and our dogs have always been fine (and they are not always together during the day).

That's the thing though, most people arguing about what dogs do when they suffer SA, are people with multiple dogs. When I bred Cairns never had a problem, but with Kenny it ws totally different. He was the only dog, plus we had a special bond since the day he was born. He was stillborn & the runt of the litter, I had to give him mouth to mouth to get him breathing, also had to hand raise him, as his siblings wouldn't let him feed from the mum. I was able to take him to work with me when he was young, but once he was no longer needing to be fed 4 meals a day & grew too big to lie around the office, I left him at home, that's when the destruction happened.