Upped The Training

[kiesha09]

Lately I have been really upping the training with my dogs because there are a few things I want to work on and have had some extra time. I thought this would wear them out more since they would be expending some extra mental energy. Instead, now they are bouncing off the walls and not particularly fun to live with.

They used to sit by my feet or on the lounge while we watched telly at the end of the night yet now they continually offer behaviours and then bark when no attention is given. This has gone on all week and its driving me nuts!!! Chip even woke me up in the middle of the night last night throwing his toy at me so we could do something - he used to be the sleepiest dog who put himself to bed at 8pm and would sleep well past 8am!

They get a walk of an hour a day and 3 x 15 min training sessions each.

Now don't get me wrong, I want them to LOVE training but at the same time when we're done we're done so I want them to understand I'm not playing any more.

Anyone else have similar experiences? What did you do?

[ness]

yep all the time. Hmmm haven't reached a solution yet though so if you find something that works let me know . Edited March 26, 2010 by ness

[Agility Dogs]

yep all the time. Hmmm haven't reached a solution yet though so if you find something that works let me know .

Toys away........if that doesn't work - crate or outside. :p They soon work it out.

[ness]

Hmmm AD - currently toys are away and a certain black and white is downstairs barking at me to do something. So outside isn't the answer - well if you want your neighbours on side.

[kiesha09]

I tried outside as well until a certain little rascal started barking at the possum in the tree. 9.30pm at night not so cool with the neighbours

Maybe they'll just have to be crated for a bit until they learn to settle down - although have noticed that even in their crates the other day Kiesha was giving me a stand, drop, stand, sit, drop, stand, drop after we had been practicing those behaviours at a distance in training that day. Yikes I think they're turning into monsters

[Agility Dogs]

Seriously, the only way I can sleep for any more than 1.5 hours (usually closer to 20 minutes) at a stretch is to crate the dogs at night.

They have learned not to bark at me when they are outside during the day.

[kiesha09]

Wow! And to think I had planned my next dog to be an Aussie or a BC. Maybe not such a great idea.

I'll start with crating and see how that goes.

[ness]

Awww kiesha they aren't that bad - they just train you well .

[Agility Dogs]

Awww kiesha they aren't that bad - they just train you well :p .

I wouldn't have it any other way. They are OCD just like me. Seriously, as long as you train for the off switch they are really good. Some just take a little longer to learn than others.

[ness]

Yep and I will be honest and say I did create what I have with Kenz. I was very worried I'd have a BC a bit like Ness who only had an on-switch when it suited them so deliberately spent all of Kenz's puppyhood setting about creating a dog who was always on . If she wanted action she got action. I was fortunate enough to spend the time at home with her so we would have multiple sessions a day of anything some of which were initiated by her and some of them initiated by me. I would also give in to her demands to do stuff so long as she was always willing to play when I wanted her to as well.

I know there is a happy medium (maybe by dog 3) but give me a dog who is always on then one that needs motivating all the time any day of the week. I do think though that its possibly easier to establish an off-switch then an on-switch so would still probably encourage a Kenzie type dog through puppyhood and then work about establishing an off-switch when I have a dog who needs one .

I think I did over compensate for the things I didn't have in Ness though.

[Vickie]

Keisha,

when they are demanding that you play with them are you giving them any attention?

My dogs are on when I want them & not when I don't. They know that they will only be rewarded for behaviours I ask for. I have a "that'll do" command. It means we're done. If they are thrusting a toy at me when I don't want it, I put the toy away, tell them that'll do & then ignore them. Most dogs will work this out very quickly.

I have a number of visitors who come over & get the same behaviour from my dogs that your dogs are giving you. That is because the people always give attention (even if it is them saying "no I don't want to play")...these same people always give in & the dogs know this.

If you want them to lie quietly while you watch TV...either teach them to lay on a mat or totally ignore them.

Dogs will only keep trying what works. Once you stop responding, they will give up.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Vickie

[lillim]

not sure if this is helpful, but I use an "end" command to signify the end of playing a game, as Mischa can be very pushy when she wants to continue a game. for example using fetch, I get her to give me the ball, praise her, then say "end" cross my hands over each other. I use to turn my back and ignore her in the beginning until she got the point.

[Seita]

I have a dog who is pretty busy. I am much the same as vickie, play/games/training etc happens on my terms only. I never do anything with a dog who is pushing me to do something, whether that's bringing a toy to me, offering me behaviours, barking etc etc. I would ignore the dogs (no eye contact or verbal communication) until they calm down and then praise gentle/quietly, crating them may also help to get the point across.

If I walk outside my girl immediately springs to life in hopes that we're doing something, if we're not she quickly calms down and relaxes. She never brings me toys to play with or offers me behaviours when not asked and pretty much just lounges around when I'm not doing something with her.

[J...]

I agree with Vickie - I'll play or train when I'm ready too, my dogs don't get to make that call. Any "nagging" gets ignored.

Zee is full on and quite insatiable when it comes to training, but at just gone 10 months (yesterday) she still has a fairly good off-button.

[Vickie]

If I walk outside my girl immediately springs to life in hopes that we're doing something, if we're not she quickly calms down and relaxes. She never brings me toys to play with or offers me behaviours when not asked and pretty much just lounges around when I'm not doing something with her.

you've got to love them for trying occasionally, don't you! Mine are the same, their eyes light up, just in case, .

Keisha, I would also add that it is definitely possible to have a high drive, willing dog who only plays on your terms. In fact I would say dogs that understand this tend to have better drives than those who don't. I know lots of people who are worried about losing enthusiasm if they don't play whenever the dogs want, but I don't feel it works that way..at least not with mine & plenty of others I know.

[Seita]

If I walk outside my girl immediately springs to life in hopes that we're doing something, if we're not she quickly calms down and relaxes. She never brings me toys to play with or offers me behaviours when not asked and pretty much just lounges around when I'm not doing something with her.

you've got to love them for trying occasionally, don't you! Mine are the same, their eyes light up, just in case, .

Keisha, I would also add that it is definitely possible to have a high drive, willing dog who only plays on your terms. In fact I would say dogs that understand this tend to have better drives than those who don't. I know lots of people who are worried about losing enthusiasm if they don't play whenever the dogs want, but I don't feel it works that way..at least not with mine & plenty of others I know.

Agreed! Just look at working dogs of any kind - police, detector dogs, herding dogs etc, they all get penned/crated/chained etc when not working and only get brought out to work when they owners/handlers say so. Those dogs are all high drive and being treated this way doesn't stop them from doing their jobs well.

[ness]

Vickie - yep thats what I said its the fear of not which drove me to create a situation and any dog is quick to jump on training you to respond in a certain manner. That fear has lessened now so I only initiate the games when I want to but it took me a while to quit worrying so much about it.

Easy when you have one dog who is already how you want it and have a handle on what you should be doing. Not so easy when you have a dog who you don't like how they are and wish to put in place modifications the subsequent time around.

Edited March 26, 2010 by ness

[Vickie]

Easy when you have one dog who is already how you want it and have a handle on what you should be doing. Not so easy when you have a dog who you don't like how they are and wish to put in place modifications the subsequent time around.

I haven't had a perfect dog yet...probably never will. The best I can hope for is to improve issues I don't like, while maintaining what I do like, in each subsequent dog. Each dog is different...just when you think you are on top of everything, the next dog brings you a whole new thing to work on. It's what makes it fun and it's what makes us better dog trainers.

No good can ever come from letting a dog call the shots, it can never lead to a good relationship.

[ness]

Sorry Vickie - misunderstanding yep agree you are improving what you didn't like in dog number 1 and the thing I didn't like about dog 1 is the lack of an on-switch or an on-switch on her turns so I did everything to encourage an on-switch - yep I encouraged it when the dog asked but I also asked for it when the dog didn't ask. I don't think its totally about letting the dog call the shots. If it was something that annoyed or frustrated me then I guess that would be different but its not interfering so I think its fine in the present situation and when it annoys me enough to change it then I would sort it out.

I know I don't have all the answers and if I can have a half good dog the second time around I'll be happy.

Its all about enjoying the dog for who they are and yep the fact that Kenz is always up for something and always wants to interact with me is what Ness isn't. And fortunately or unfortunately depending on which way you look at it (mostly unfortunately as I would dearly like to have more of a life but I don't) so I have the time to give into Kenz's demands .

Hmmm think I am getting myself into hot water here - were is the phone a friend lifeline option when you need it.

Maybe I can sum it up in a nutshell - picture of what you want in your mind, not sure if the dog will get there so you do everything within your power to encourage what behaviors you think might get the dog there - clear as mud but hey I am still learning. Maybe if I had a dog who was obviously showing signs of being high drive I might have put the limits in earlier but when they aren't a natural you encourage what you want.

Ok think I am just confusing the situation and obviously I will leave this topic to those more experienced with dogs who have had some element of success.

Edited March 26, 2010 by ness

[kiesha09]

No, I certainly am not giving any attention when it is demanded. I simply ignore it and continue watching tv albeit with the volume much louder Maybe its just trying me on because they have never done it before. They had always been fully aware that when I gave the 'all done' cue that was it, we had finished.

Now that we are training more, I think they are hoping for even more. So I get them throwing behaviours, nudging, licking, barking etc. Its funny because neither one are really high drive dogs unless its training in the house but now I wouldn't exactly call them lowdrive dogs. I'm in two minds because I would like to foster this as its great for training, just don't want to live with it on an every day basis. To be honest I enjoyed watching telly at the end of the night in peace and quite

I would love the intensity in training and then them to be exhausted and be couch potatoes after

BTW... was just joking about the BC's and Aussies I still want one, just going to make sure I develop the off switch (although won't be for many years yet - 2 dogs is plenty!)