Open Letter To Troy

[tlc]

Sometimes you can see people have an agenda, but if you come on here posting something like - I am breeding my unregistered dog, I think I need to rehome my dog, I want to know how my 4 large undesexed male dogs can live together in my 42sqm apartment laugh.gif etc, you will get responses you don't want to hear. This is a DOG forum, people are passionate, as Troy said.

But isnt there a saying that you catch more flies with honey? Replying to one of these posts with the first line "Your an Idiot rant, rant,rant" isnt going to get them to listen - they will press the x button and take off but a well worded non-judgemental post stating facts and reasons may get them to hang around and learn more.

Like it or not but there are still heaps of people out there that think you buy a dog from the petshop and that letting your bitch have a litter will "settle them down" - these people need education not flaming but I guess if flaming someone makes you feel superior then go ahead.

What I don't understand about some posters flaming others is are they like that in real life? If they were having a conversation with someone and that someone said something they didn't like or agree with would they respond the same way they do on the forum? It makes me curious if online personas are the same in RL??

[poodlefan]

S&F:

ya see, for noobs like me, it screams frikken caution as this forum currently is the place i would consider seeking help if a situation with my dogs was dire and i too needed to reach out...

In the brief outbreak of a real life I had while training and exercising the tribe, I had a good think about why some threads stay on track and others tend to get very heated.

I think if I wanted to post for advice on a controversial topic, I'd outline the situation and ask for opinions as to what I should do, rather than saying "I've decided do X, what do you think"

If you ask for opinions, people giving them will debate with each other. If you say you're going to take a course of action, people will tackle you directly.

Certain types of posts are going to elicit different reactions to the poster from different groups on the forum. For example, people wanting to offload dogs without really trying to resolve issues (not thinking of Brooke here) will tend to get rescuers offside. I tend to empathise with those with dog aggression issues because I know what its like. Someone who's had a dog that's been the victim of a serious attack will come from another perspective.

I don't think anyone with an issue need ever doubt that people here will have the dog's best interests at heart when they give advice. Problem is that what owners perceive as their best interests won't always be uppermost in posters minds.

Edited March 26, 2010 by poodlefan

[Skruffy n Flea]

S&F:

ya see, for noobs like me, it screams frikken caution as this forum currently is the place i would consider seeking help if a situation with my dogs was dire and i too needed to reach out...

In the brief outbreak of a real life I had while training and exercising the tribe, I had a good think about why some threads stay on track and others tend to get very heated.

I think if I wanted to post for advice on a controversial topic, I'd outline the situation and ask for opinions, rather than saying "I've decided do X, what do you think"

If you ask for opinions, people giving them will debate with each other. If you say you're going to take a course of action, people will tackle you directly.

Certain types of posts are going to elicit different reactions to the poster from different groups on the forum. For example, people wanting to offload dogs without really trying to resolve issues (not thinking of Brooke here) will tend to get rescuers offside. I tend to empathise with those with dog aggression issues because I know what its like. Someone who's had a dog that's been the victim of a serious attack will come from another perspective.

I don't think anyone with an issue need ever doubt that people here will have the dog's best interests at heart when they give advice. Problem is that what owners perceive as their best interests won't always be uppermost in posters minds.

i completely and utterly agree with you ... ty

i don't understand where peeps get off judging another and making a poster's lifestyle the bone to pick for them having to make a choice! that isn't constructive and proven time and again, totally counter-productive...

[persephone]

I cannot transpose my thoughts into the right terminology tonight- however.. what seems to be missing from some replies to many requests, is empathy- the ability to feel what the other person is feeling, and to say/do what may be of the best help to them at that time.

Once the PERSON is feeling more able and empowered, THEN they can proceed to do the best they can for their dog's problem.

This doesn't look quite right either- but you get the gist

[ILK]

I cannot transpose my thoughts into the right terminology tonight

How come?

[shells]

What I don't understand about some posters flaming others is are they like that in real life? If they were having a conversation with someone and that someone said something they didn't like or agree with would they respond the same way they do on the forum? It makes me curious if online personas are the same in RL??

IME only a very few. Most hide behind their computer screen feeling smug and secure. I have spend alot of time on a parenting forum where people are belittled for such things as feeding a small child hot chips never mind the hot topics such as circumcision and formula feeding- I am sure if the poster trying to shame this person in real life they would be too scared to say boo

[persephone]

How come? smile.gif

brain has gone on holiday

[HugUrPup]

*the insinuation that she only fosters children for the money ( )

I know!!! That's just a bit over the top. I guess people get caught up in the moment of attack and really step over the line of common decency.

[Skruffy n Flea]

I cannot transpose my thoughts into the right terminology tonight- however.. what seems to be missing from some replies to many requests, is empathy- the ability to feel what the other person is feeling, and to say/do what may be of the best help to them at that time.

Once the PERSON is feeling more able and empowered, THEN they can proceed to do the best they can for their dog's problem.

This doesn't look quite right either- but you get the gist

i think if i put that into context as to my argument, it works for me

unfortunately, i cannot put myself into the mind of any of those posters that appeared to have no empathy for the OP's position so therefore i cannot comment as to that side of the argument...

[labsrule]

Wow it appears that so many of us didn't know that there was a report button.

Watch all the reports happen now

and watch the experienced knowledgeable people all walk away or be driven away People who frequent online forums need to develop tougher hides . In RL we aren't all lovey dovey with one another why expect it to be that way on an online forum . Majority of us are pretty passionate dog lovers and some people have strong views on some things and dont mince words and some others are just pretty thoughtless and tactless or maybe lacking in communication skills to get their point of view across in the way they intended. You cannot put tone around words, so in some cases posts can be misconstrued.

You can't please all of the people all of the time and I take the view that you have to take the good with the bad.

[ILK]

How come? smile.gif

brain has gone on holiday

To where?

I must agree with alot of you as I am often one of the posters who complains about the negative comments.

I guess it just isn't necessary to give your negative opinion in a situation where someone is asking for help. Yes it is a public forum and yes we all have different views on things. There are many threads that have call for debate and it is even fun sometimes, but there is such a thing as being toooooooo opinionated.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

It is not just the new and vulnerable that have to think carefully about what they post here. That isn't the fault of the DOL moderation team, it's the nature of the internet. DOL is actively monitored by people who never post, I remembered that again recently when OH got a nosy phone call about something I posted in the breeders' forum. You need to be careful what you post no matter who you are.

These days my expectation would be that most people would use DOL as an information source for all sorts of things. In fact, I have privately used information I've read here when assessing a potential placement for a rescue puppy.

There are also people here who care about the dog first and foremost and that shows in their posts. Sometimes they make errors of judgement when they confront someone with past information, because sometimes that isn't ultimately going to help the dog. OTOH, I think it's good that people know they will be held accountable to their history. I don't think it's offensive to ask someone about something they've posted in the past but haven't brought into the current discussion.

[dee lee]

There will always be posters who cannot help but be rude and lacking in empathy, changing the way the moderators work wont change that.

I have found that you can avoid the vultures by being clear, honest and not engaging in a fight. Sadly it takes time to learn that lesson.

I posted a thread last year that was along similar lines to Brooke's. I expected to be flamed but the need to reach out to people who would understand my problems and give me advice was too great.

There were a few arguments (nothing nasty) but on the whole I was left with a strong feeling of community and support from my fellow Dolers.

Dol was a great source of help and comfort in those dark days and I could not have coped with out all the wonderful people who responded.

Its not all vitriol and lack of empathy.

[persephone]

Its not all vitriol and lack of empathy.

No, thank the heavens! it is an amazingly complex and alive place- and it is peopled by such an assortment of folks with a treasure trove of knowledge!

..however , as the old maps said of some of the unchartered areas

"...Here be Dragons"

*goes to find brain..holidaying in places unknown*

[Danois]

Why should such threads have to engender empathy in posters? We all have different experiences and views on things which means we will always view something different to the next person and this will colour our responses.

For example - I can empathise with someone here if they have a terminally ill dog because I have been there done that. I do not empathise with someone who has to rehome their dog because they have moved into a house where dogs are not allowed therefore look at it factually/ objectively.

All that aside, regardlessly some people will always play the victim or woe is me card or have no insight into how a situation is of their own making. Why should there be an expectation we all sit around, hold hands and sing kumbayah when this happens?

[Skruffy n Flea]

...

All that aside, regardlessly some people will always play the victim or woe is me card or have no insight into how a situation is of their own making. Why should there be an expectation we all sit around, hold hands and sing kumbayah when this happens?

i had to giggle at that

sometimes a person can be so consumed by a particular situation that they find it difficult to fathom for themselves how it all came about ... i've been in situations personally with both illness and situational and i know the effect it can have on a person's reasoning!

i'm not playing devil's advocate here ... in the OP's case there seemed to be a butt-load of stuff and i got the impression from her posts that she was at her wit's end! i didn't however get the impression that she was looking for a fest of warm and fuzzy...

she needed our help and most dolers gave it up to her in dollops ... it's just those few that made it hard for the OP to keep on top of it and for the rest of us to stay focussed enuf to offer something constructive!

the upshot of my argument is that in all events, no-one but the OP [or poster] is as intimate with *their* situation as they are personally and some [not most] of us, as part of this community that this OP turned to, didn't need to turn on her and seemingly judge her in the manner they did...

yeah, we could all be a little more thick skinned, learn to turn the other cheek and all that, but ya know what!?? when the chips are down and you feel you've got no where else to go, how would any of us feel should we have been in the OP's shoes?

jmho :D

[greytdog]

Why should such threads have to engender empathy in posters? We all have different experiences and views on things which means we will always view something different to the next person and this will colour our responses.

For example - I can empathise with someone here if they have a terminally ill dog because I have been there done that. I do not empathise with someone who has to rehome their dog because they have moved into a house where dogs are not allowed therefore look at it factually/ objectively.

All that aside, regardlessly some people will always play the victim or woe is me card or have no insight into how a situation is of their own making. Why should there be an expectation we all sit around, hold hands and sing kumbayah when this happens?

[Greytmate]

Since when does somebody become so important, that we just have to accept whatever they say about their animals so that we don't upset that person?

I don't think it is acceptable to be 'fostering' animals and keeping them in unused buildings. It is really important that dogs being adopted out by rescuers are in the best physical and mental health. That cannot be achieved by keeping them locked in a flat by themselves. That is nowhere near best practice for rescue, its dodgy.

Sorry Brooke, but it sounds like you a person that has taken on too much. It's not ethical to rehome an aggressive dog (but being in rescue you should know that).

Put the dog to sleep, and don't take on any more animals until you have a stable home.

[greytdog]

Sorry, computer is playing up tonight.

[HugUrPup]

Since when does somebody become so important, that we just have to accept whatever they say about their animals so that we don't upset that person?

I don't think it is acceptable to be 'fostering' animals and keeping them in unused buildings. It is really important that dogs being adopted out by rescuers are in the best physical and mental health. That cannot be achieved by keeping them locked in a flat by themselves. That is nowhere near best practice for rescue, its dodgy.

Sorry Brooke, but it sounds like you a person that has taken on too much. It's not ethical to rehome an aggressive dog (but being in rescue you should know that).

Put the dog to sleep, and don't take on any more animals until you have a stable home.

See that is constructive respectable criticism and NOT what Brooke started this thread about.