Open Letter To Troy

[Shakti]

Dear Troy,

Yesterday I had occasion to ask that a thread I had started which specifically asked for advice and suggestions on what to do with my GSD that had recently started air-snapping and had progressed to snapping at people be locked.

Many many posters were compassionate, knowledgeable people who made constructive suggestions and offered me their understanding.

However a small yet vocal minority began casting aspersions on my character, my reasons for becoming a foster carer for troubled children, for rescuing animals from other states etc etc.

While obviously this was upsetting it is NOT the reason I am writing this open letter.

What has really stirred me to action is the number of PMs I received from other people saying they had a similar issue with their dog and *were too scared to post for fear of being flamed!*

In the past I have witnessed some terribly cruel and unprovoked personal attacks on this forum especially on Newbies who come here with very little knowledge (in some cases) seeking help and advice from these *more experienced dog people* The response that they sometimes get is so withering and so vitriolic that they leave the Forum never to return.

This begs the question - what happens to them and their dogs after they have left? Do they continue muddling through? Do they give away or dump their dog? Is their opinion of *dog people* enhanced by the response they have engendered here?

I believe this forum is a precious and vital resource not just to be used for back-patting and self-congratulating but also to share wisdom, discuss problems and sometimes seek a second opinion.

Perhaps the answer is to have a moderator (or moderators) who can be notified by members when a post has been posted that is considered to be a personal attack or that makes unfounded accusations, resorts to name-calling etc and then have the post immediately removed and the poster given a warning.

Three warnings and you are out of the Forum would be I think one way of combating the increasingly nasty tone of some of the posters here. I do not want to name the many people who wrote to me privately saying they felt ashamed to be a member here or who were too scared to ask for advice but, with their permission, I will forward their posts to Troy if he requires some authentication of my claims.

This can be such a welcoming, supportive, knowledge-rich environment - we should treasure it and protect it and not let it degenerate into a clique-y, mob-mentality bunfight!

[poodlefan]

Perhaps the answer is to have a moderator (or moderators) who can be notified by members when a post has been posted that is considered to be a personal attack or that makes unfounded accusations, resorts to name-calling etc and then have the post immediately removed and the poster given a warning.

This exists now. All you have to do is hit the 'report' button on any offending post. No amount of supportive PMs will influence the tone of this forum in any way whatsoever.

This forum is what members make it. I am conscious that I am one of the posters occasionally accused of being one of the 'pack' but I've never shied from expressing an unpopular view OR to hit the report button and to caution posters that they are getting out of line. Passions run hot here but you can still make your point within forum rules. You can certainly make your point or disagree without being insulting.

In my general experience bullies are cowards. All it takes is a few folk to tell them that they're out of line and they slink away. Its not like you have to confront anyone personally.

Edited March 26, 2010 by poodlefan

[Bluefairy]

Brooke,

I read every page of your thread, though I didn't contribute to it, sorry. I do feel for you and your situation, and I commend you for coming on here and asking advice. I hope the advice you got far outweighed the cynical replies of some people. I was left speechless by some of it, and I was glad the thread got closed.

But I will second you on having moderators check out the direction some of these threads head in. I'm glad to say most of them are great in the non critical way of replies.....but mention anything about rehoming or PTS a dog and it will breakup and crumble quickly. I can understand why no one mentions it.....they are afraid of the backlash, but surely if people can come on here and talk openly about it, without fear of reprisals, they might find there are alternatives that they may never have thought of. But instead they are forced to bite their tongue and do it all behind closed doors.....and sometimes all they can think to do is humanly put the dog to sleep.

I feel unless everyone can come on here and ask a question about anything whether you agree or not, we will see more people dumping their dogs, putting them to sleep, or sending them to the pound. They might not know that the breeder (if its a pure bred) is the first one to contact, they might not know there are rescue groups for most breeds, there may even be someone willing to adopt the dog.....they will never know unless they know a place they can come and ask......

BF

[poodlefan]

Bluefairy:

But I will second you on having moderators check out the direction some of these threads head in.

This happens when you hit the 'report' button.

Did any of the PM senders do that?

Edited March 26, 2010 by poodlefan

[BJean]

Brooke,

I read your thread and dont agree that is was a clique-y, mob-mentality bunfight. Sure some people didn't agree with what you were doing, but maybe they had a point.

Next time you want everyone to agree with you and your ethos, dontt post on a public forum. Otherwise expect some public debate.

If others PMd you becasue they found it all too much, tell them to press the report button and ask for assisstance.

L:)

[Diva]

If you consider a post has crossed the line and become offensive or insulting, just hit the report button.

More than one member in the time I have been on DOL has had to 'take a holiday' from the forums or has been banned permanently for breaching the forum rules on behaviour. The mods have demonstrated they are quite willing to take action if someone reports a breach.

Of course, that doesn't stop someone expressing a view someone else might not like to hear, and nor should it. But they have to stick to the protocol in doing so.

[jemappelle]

Perhaps it is time to remind everyone of the forum rules and reporting procedure. Here's the link for those that need it:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/forumrules.html

[Troy]

Poodlefan has summed up my feelings pretty well.

If you have an issue, report the post or topic and I will have a look at it. For the topic in question I think I may have got one report.

The following comments are general observations and are probably not related to the topic in question.

There is a lot of passionate dog people on here and some may say things that others may consider out of line but they usually have the dog's interest at heart first and foremost. This forum will never be 'touchy feely' and I have no desire for it to be that way. You probably should search elsewhere if that is what you are wanting.

When people post about something publicly on a forum this large, you need to expect that not all people will agree with you or approve of what you are doing. I don't want to sanitise the forum to the point that people are afraid to dis-agree with anyone or else they be banned. That does not foster open discussion.

[Steve]

It wouldnt matter how many moderators you had here its not possible for anyone to read every post. No one can know when something needs to be looked at until the report button is hit and even then moderators have lives away from the forum, they have to sleep and go to the toilet too. Over moderation would also be counter productive in my opinion as it cuts down debate and the ability to get a bit passionate sometimes.

There is a system here which allows for warnings to be given and for users to be banned which happens much more often than you think. However, you have to hit the report button and expect that its not always going to get you instant attention.

[poodlefan]

Can someone with more savvy than me cut and paste an example of where the report button is.. its totally beyond my skill.

[FranVT]

Why, certainly.

[SwaY]

I love these threads

[labsrule]

This is a PUBLIC forum and as such you will get many diverse opinions and some threads gets heated because people may disagree with OP's views/post or other posts in the thread and some OP's get pissed that people call them into question. This includes dragging up previous threads/posts an OP may have posted which may be at odds with their current thread/post.

At the end of the day, if you post a thread asking for advice on a certain situation, you do really need to be prepared for people to post advice that you may not like and yes some people can be blunt or rude. If it upsets you, you can report them as Poodlefan has mentioned previously and I think this forum is moderated fairly well.

People need to be able to post replies that may disagree with the OP or another poster without fear that they cannot speak their mind because they disagree with the OP or other posters views. It is totally unrealistic to expect all replies in a thread to be positive replies.

You have to learn to shrug it off and focus on what a great place and wealth of information this forum is.

If people are ashamed to be members of DOL, then what are they doing still hanging around

[BJean]

I love these threads

[Sue & Waldo]

What has really stirred me to action is the number of PMs I received from other people saying they had a similar issue with their dog and *were too scared to post for fear of being flamed!*

In the past I have witnessed some terribly cruel and unprovoked personal attacks on this forum especially on Newbies who come here with very little knowledge (in some cases) seeking help and advice from these *more experienced dog people* The response that they sometimes get is so withering and so vitriolic that they leave the Forum never to return.

If people are too scared to post in the first place then reporting is not going to help them.

This is a public forum and different opinions need to be expressed.

Perhaps we should stop and think before posting and express an "unpopular" opinion in a kinder way. The advice may well be better received in this way.

Good on you for raising this Brooke!

[Steve]

Being involved in the forum is just like playing a game. Know the rules and learn the game plan - if there's a dispute tell the unpire and the umpire's decision is final. When you start to take anything thats said here personally and its no longer a game it might be time to take time out sit on the bench to catch your breath and remember how to play again.

[Loving my Oldies]

The report button is underneath every post on the left hand side underneath the Avatar section.

I thought some of the responses in Brooke's post were plain cruel. Sadly, there are people on DOL who rarely seem to have anything positive to say and who seem to just get their jollies from hurting people.

And I think there are people who report those they don't like (whether they know them in person or not) simply to try to get at that person. I've had warnings for posts that are mild compared to many other posts, and I used to wonder how could Troy have a problem with my particular post when others are allowed to continually post negative and nasty things. I guess it is because people are reporting them.

Although I have been around DOL for ages, I am still aghast at some of the posts people make.

I am not interested in forums, per se; I am on this one only because it is a dog forum. It is not as interesting as it used to be or maybe I am just becoming jaded.

[Loving my Oldies]

I love these threads :p

And this is exactly part of the point Brooke is making. Sad.

[Steve]

No personal attacks is a base rule which applies to everyone new or old - anyone guilty will be sent off.

[Loving my Oldies]

If people are ashamed to be members of DOL, then what are they doing still hanging around

Maybe because they keep looking for the gold in all the dross in the hope that they will learn something to help them in making their dogs happier and healthier :p

Being involved in the forum is just like playing a game. Know the rules and learn the game plan - if there's a dispute tell the unpire and the umpire's decision is final. When you start to take anything thats said here personally and its no longer a game it might be time to take time out sit on the bench to catch your breath and remember how to play again.

Agree to a point, Steve. But it isn't a game. There are some very personal and very hurtful things said from time to time and, yes, they should be reported, but when people are nasty and negative just for the sake of being so, it is no longer a game.