Cdc Data On Dog Attacks

[sandgrubber]

What? You're not up for an arguement based on facts and reason. So you use the cheap toss-off of saying this is rediculous. Be specific about what deserves ridicule.Please.

You miss the point. When breeders and the breed standard choose to represent a breed, any breed, in HA term, it's bad news. I don't want a guard dog. There are situations in which guard dogs are appropriate, but they don't arise in my lifestyle. If Australia had as many problems with child kidnapping for ransoms as Brasil does, I'd say there would be a reason to import the breed. But that's not the case. Nor do I think the Filo would be effective for guarding livestock under Australian conditions.

No I think you do.

Best to stick with the Labs , hey.

This is getting ridiculous.

[geo]

I think they would be used to increase the size and ferocity of pig dogs and pit fighting dogs. I think they would be very useful on both scores. And I think both the fierce pig dog and the bigger-better pit fight are to be discouraged.

There are plenty of breeds here already that make incredible pig dogs, and could make better pit dogs, there is no need for a Fila. I think they'd hardly rate a mention if they were legal despite what you say their tendancies are.

The thing is pig hunting requires several different dogs, 'big and ferocious' is only part it, if hunters wanted to go big they have Bull arabs, boerbels, mastiffs, danes, bulldogs etc... no need for the Fila, if they did i'm sure they would only cross breed it several times, and i don't know what traits it could bring that don't already exist in dogs that are already here.

Pit fighting is also the same, anyone remotely interested nowadays in pit fighting is not going to be your typical dogman of old, and again they'd fight chihuahuas if they had to, and like DA does not equal HA, it's the same the other way around HA does not equal .

[BJean]

What? You're not up for an arguement based on facts and reason. So you use the cheap toss-off of saying this is rediculous. Be specific about what deserves ridicule.Please.

one, I am not interested to argue; that is not an exchange of ideas.

second, Debate to me is informative and interesting; where both sides learn from one to the other.

We cannot debate based on facts, because yours are not clear on this topic

and therefore we cannot debate with reason

as it is not conducive from hearsay and supposition.

Thankyou.

Edited April 22, 2010 by lilli

[bulldogz4eva]

Interesting. Where did your stats come from? I don't know where you find statistics on dog ownership by breed or how you conclude there are 4.5 million APBT's in the US. dontbullymybreed.org says the pit bull WAS the most popular breed in the US in the first half of the 20th century . . . but gives no references. They also say Pittis are extremely common in some places, eg, Chicago. I was born and raised in the US and lived there for about 45 years. I met a lot of dogs. Not many APBT's however. According to the AKC the Labrador is the most popular breed, topping registrations of any other breed by around a factor of two. Next most popular is the GSD, followed by (surprise to me) the Yorkshire Terrier.

Btw. Yes I do have a thing about the Filo, partly from having spent time in Brazil, but mostly because, in the reading I've done on dog temperament, the Filo is the most extreme breed in the extent to which, by breed standard in its country of origin, dogs are expected to be hostile to unfamiliar people. If you can find another breed where pups are expected to snarl at strangers by 12 weeks, or where biting the judge at a dog show is acceptable, I'll be happy to add that breed to my personal list of breeds I think should be prohibited from import. I am against BSL in most cases, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. An import ban on a breed selected for HA is prevention.

It comes from various places and the numbers vary.There is no 100% accurate census statistics by breed available in the US.They are estimates by the HSUS and others and quoted in many places.The stats vary from between 5% to 10% of all dogs in the States are pitbulls.What you quoted for labs is from the ANKC website and that relates specifically to AKC registrations of Labradors in the States so also not totally accurate as far as overall numbers go and considring APBT are not AKC registerable.Go to any humane shelter in the US and they will tell you that overall numbers of dogs in shelters the percentage of pitbulls will outstrip all others and it is because the population of the breed is higher than others.

You are entitled to your opinion just as anyone else is and you dont have to like every breed of dog but you could at least spell his name right.Its FILA not filo.Filo is a type of pastry that crumbles when pressure is applied unlike the real Fila.Like I have said before I think you read a bit much into it and intertwined in that the history of the breed.Yes they were bred to run down run away slaves as well as other things but do yuo honestly think the dogs one hundred and fifty years ago are exactly the same now.Any breed or type of dog that cant fit into the family unit or doesnt suit the environment doesnt exist for too long.If you have been to brazil and I have too ask peole there that own them.Thse that do will tell you how much of a great family dog they are.You wont find stats on human fatalities for them becuase there arent any.I am sure there has been isolated incidents as there is with any breed but on the whole thre isnt anything newsworthy.There was the incident with Ving Rhymes dogs but the guy was found to have died from a heart attack.

Read the history of the Black Russian Terrier the Caucasian Ovcharka the Boerboel.The only difference with these dogs are they are newer creations except the ovcharka but the people who have written the modern standard and temperament/characteristics have taken into accopunt people like yourself taking things out of context.The real temperaments of the above mentiond breeds is not much idfferent to the Fila of course there are the extremes in every breed.You dont need to go posting the standards I already know what they are I am telling you from people I knows experience and from real word of mouth what these dogs are about.

The Black Russian Terrier was bred by the Russian Military to be a supreme guard dog to guard Gulags and POW's and to view those that didnt feed them or train them as vermin.The real ones have a temperament that most people in this country couldnt handle.Fortunately show breeding has watered them down.

The Boerboel as I said before is heavily bred from Bullmastiff when the Bullmastiff was the real deal and a bandog bred from working stock from Estates where they performed the duty of catching poachers.A dog that fetures in the history of the bullmastiff was bred from a known man killer as this was their duty in the day.These dogs also had bloodhound in them just like the Fila does.Dogs were exported to SA and feature prominently in the History of the Boerboel.I share this info not to put the spotlight on other breeds but just so you can see there are many dogs bred as guard dogs that til this day still live happy lives as family dogs.

I do understand your logic sometimes people need protecting from themsleves but as I have stated there are dogs already here some of them ANKC registered that are too much dog for some people.The only way to make people more responsible and accountable is pass the law to put the onus on the owner of the dog.

Edited April 24, 2010 by bulldogz4eva

[Zhou Xuanyao]

What relevance does AKC data have to the number of APBT's in the USA ?

[sandgrubber]

No less relevance than the made up and obvious false statement that they are the most common breed of dog in the US ;) .

:D

What relevance does AKC data have to the number of APBT's in the USA ?

[geo]

No less relevance than the made up and obvious false statement that they are the most common breed of dog in the US ;) .

:D

What relevance does AKC data have to the number of APBT's in the USA ?

Ok so focusing more on ownership here, everytime i went to the local pound, everytime i look in the local papers, the one breed that seems to pop up a lot is Staffy. To me it seems that every other dog is a staffy or staffy cross.

I have several friends in california and they rate the APBT as one of the highest owned dogs, but again this all depends on where you live and i guess the socio economic background.

And when it comes to stats on registered ownership (in the US), thats exactly what they are, registered, and i'd go out on a whim and say that a large majority of pitbulls aren't registered. I bet the majority of dogs in pounds over there are also pits. If you think we had a problem with BYB over here you can imagine how bad it is over there.

[bulldogz4eva]

No less relevance than the made up and obvious false statement that they are the most common breed of dog in the US .

Believe what ever you want to believe.

[sandgrubber]

Ok. my Portuguese isn't great and I get word endings switched. Believe me, mixing filo (which means phylum in Portuguese) with fila (which means line or file, and also refers to the dog breed) is nowhere as embarassing as confusing pico (hill) with pica (crude word for penis) . . . a mistake that has caused me to blush a few time. Filo does not mean pastry in Portuguese. Or are you among the many that think they speak Spanish in Brazil?

Are you saying we should not believe or heed what is in the breed standard regarding behaviour? My point is that where, as in the case of the Fila, the breed standard in the country of origin specifies extreme guard dog, with both HA and DA and other animal aggressive characteristics, caution about importing is a good thing. Given Australian authorities track record in identifying and managing dangerous dogs, the appropriate level of caution is ban imports of the breed until an adequate temperament screening filter has been designed.

Filo?! what are they, pastry?!!! FILA! got to agree with lilli, being hostile whilst guarding property is different to being out in the streets and being HA.

People on this forum should remember that their experiences are just that.. that does not make them experts, unless you've owned one Sandgrubber or several for that matter maybe you shouldn't be spouting what you've read or heard.

I've owned several dogs, well read but by no means an expert in any breed as far as my experience has shown is that all dogs are different even litter mates, if a breeder with years experience was to come on here and pass opinion then i would listen until someone does i'll form my own opinion and not try to tell others what breeds behave in which manner, especially if i've not owned one.

Edited April 29, 2010 by sandgrubber

[sandgrubber]

I'd be surprised to find 80% accurate statistics about numbers of dogs of any breed in any country. Ok. There may be some little kingdom somewhere where they take a careful dog census. But in general, we're grasping as straws. But even at 20% accuracy level, I'll bet Labbies are more common than APBT's in the USA . . . based on having lived in the USA for >40 years.

I see the current situation vis a vis APBT's in Oz as a stupid drama that causes a lot of suffering to people and the dogs they love. I would prefer not to see another breed with problem potential put into the Australian system until there is a sensible legislative framework, with enforcement capability, in place. What we have now is failing miserably in putting the onus on the owner of the dog. Unfortunately, it takes more than passing a law to bring about change.

It comes from various places and the numbers vary.There is no 100% accurate census statistics by breed available in the US.They are estimates by the HSUS and others and quoted in many places.

I do understand your logic sometimes people need protecting from themsleves but as I have stated there are dogs already here some of them ANKC registered that are too much dog for some people.The only way to make people more responsible and accountable is pass the law to put the onus on the owner of the dog.

Edited April 29, 2010 by sandgrubber

[Jed]

What relevance does AKC data have to the number of APBT's in the USA ?

where did anyone quote AKC data involving the number of APBT in USA?

[chrisjc]

im pretty sure its not against the law to import pastry into our country.

im also pretty sure we have plenty of pastry here, and as far as i know we have no attacks or fatalities in our country from pastry ever. not one in history.

so we are all safe from the killer pastry.

just a little useless info for you. the name Fila[not filo just incase your confused] can be loosly translated in the country of origin of these dogs, means "to hold" there job was to stop and hold there quarry not mercilessly maul them like you are making it out to be.

there were tons of filas brought into the country and the NT is proof of it. they have been crossed with great danes to shorten the jowl length so when hunting pigs they wouldnt fang themselves as much.

if you actually use that google thingy on your computer you may be able to find that with enough search attemps you can readily find fila cross breeds in australia and they look just like a fila to me. i found two ads in less than a ten minute period that were 75% fila in their breedings.

they are here and they have been here all along. and guess what? they have flown under the radar this long without killing or knowingly maiming anyone.

anyone who does any real research on the breed will know they are a pretty easy dog to pick out of a line up as parts of their body is very different to any other breed for example the back end.

alltough im sure you would know all of this since your our counties leading filo expert.

[poodlefan]

Chrisjc:

they are here and they have been here all along. and guess what? they have flown under the radar this long without killing or knowingly maiming anyone.

They didn't fly low enough to be banned from import to the country or ownership in most states.

If they haven't made the media perhaps its due to those who have them them keeping them out of the hands of irresponsible knobs. If that is the case then good luck to their fanciers and I hope they continue to exercise the same discretion in who they sell to.

[sandgrubber]

Repeat. My problem with the breed is in the breed standard in the country of origin calling for temperament that in my opinion is unacceptable.

If dogs are already here and flying below the radar as X-breeds in the NT . . . no problem . .. until there's a problem. If they start appearing in urban situations and people/dogs get hurt, I hope the NT people are able to conceal the bloodlines of their dogs . . . or live in councils that don't give a fig.

As for the filo vs fila thing. I would hope people are above calling names and making fun of people for making a mistake in a foreign language. I would bet that I speak a lot more Portuguese than 99% of the people on this forum . . . gender and noun endings are a hard thing for English speaking people in a Latin language. Filo is not pastry in Brazil (or should I spell it Brasil). DOL contributors make regular errors in English, its for it's, now for know, there for their, yadda yadda yadda. I'm happy dealing with verbal attack (if I didn't I wouldn't frequent this forum), but please, keep it to substance, not trivia.

Edited April 30, 2010 by sandgrubber

[bulldogz4eva]

Ok. my Portuguese isn't great and I get word endings switched. Believe me, mixing filo (which means phylum in Portuguese) with fila (which means line or file, and also refers to the dog breed) is nowhere as embarassing as confusing pico (hill) with pica (crude word for penis) . . . a mistake that has caused me to blush a few time. Filo does not mean pastry in Portuguese. Or are you among the many that think they speak Spanish in Brazil?

You are probably trying to use a translator and it wont work.Fila in old Portuguese means to seize or hold.Portuguese and Brazilian are similar but not the same.Rference to filo was the pastry thats english obviously it went over your head.

Much the same as the Perro De presa Canario menas the gripping or holding dog of the Canary Islands.

there were tons of filas brought into the country and the NT is proof of it. they have been crossed with great danes to shorten the jowl length so when hunting pigs they wouldnt fang themselves as much.

if you actually use that google thingy on your computer you may be able to find that with enough search attemps you can readily find fila cross breeds in australia and they look just like a fila to me. i found two ads in less than a ten minute period that were 75% fila in their breedings.

I am sorry but you are wrong.Just becuase someone says they have something doesnt mean they do.Plenty of tossers out there selling things they dont have and others buying them thinking they have gotten one and continuing to perpetuate the lie.

[BJean]

Repeat. My problem with the breed is in the breed standard in the country of origin calling for temperament that in my opinion is unacceptable.

And you have been told before that you're opinion on temperament is compromised because you do not know what constitutes a steadfast guardian dog.

Yes you dont like the wording of the breed standard, but what does that matter if you dont know what the wording means?

You dont understand guardian breeds and are afraid of them, I get that

but to then make claims about what the standard means wrt ideal guardian temperament is a little strange.

You dont like what you read of the Fila breed standard -

I'm suggesting

that you dont like what you read

because you dont know about what you are reading,

does that make sense?

When I read the Fila standard, I read: intelligent, ability to discern, loyal, unwaivering, steadfast nervous system.

We could argue that as an aggregate, guardian breeds of the Fila type have a more dependable and steadfast nervous system than labs -

out of necessity.

Can't be having any hyperactive or inane behaviour in large serious guardian breeds.

You need calm thinkers, absolute predictability, unwaivering nervous system, adaptive intelligence.

Edited April 30, 2010 by lilli

[tarope]

There does seem to be a problem with bull terrier types and Rottis.

What problems with Rotties would that be ? Do you have experience or have owned a Rottie to make this statement, please tell me.

Edited May 1, 2010 by tarope

[bulldogz4eva]

As for the filo vs fila thing. I would hope people are above calling names and making fun of people for making a mistake in a foreign language. I would bet that I speak a lot more Portuguese than 99% of the people on this forum . . . gender and noun endings are a hard thing for English speaking people in a Latin language. Filo is not pastry in Brazil (or should I spell it Brasil). DOL contributors make regular errors in English, its for it's, now for know, there for their, yadda yadda yadda. I'm happy dealing with verbal attack (if I didn't I wouldn't frequent this forum), but please, keep it to substance, not trivia.

Its not about poking fun at you as everyone makes mistakes it is about being correct.The name of the breed defines to an extent what he is therfore you should understand the name and what it means.The same as I posted for the Presa.It was for your understanding not to make fun of you.Read my posts my spelling is often wrong and its not becuase I cant spell its becuase I type so fast this old computer cant keep up.I dont go back and correct my spelling becuase I dont use spell check I think it is more human to make mistakes.I am not here to win a spelling bee.There is no verbal attack on my part anyway just difference of opinions.