Cdc Data On Dog Attacks

[Jed]

Sandgrubber

I agree that BSL doesn't work well and ends out causing the deaths of many good, lovely, dogs, and heartbreak for their owners. I think those working to end BSL need to be honest in recognising problems in getting some individuals/booodlines within their breed to fit into society, and, to the extent that those problems are being perpetuated and made worse by a small group of people who love blood sport, I think breed fanciers need to come down on the group in question. As a Labrador breeder, there is no way I'm going to be able to approach a dog fighter as a 'peer'. As an APBT fancier, perhaps one who owns some awesome dogs, and who can talk credibly about bloodlines in the breed, people like you may have a chance.

The problem is, you (universal "you") read the media reports. Pitbulls look pretty bad. Wouldn't want one living next door. Nasty bloody things, turn in a flash and kill the kids.

The majority of pitbulls are simply dogs, with the same attributes for their breed as other breeds. Sure, the boys may want to fight. I know plenty of reputable staffy breeders who tell owners to be careful about the staffy fighting. I tell buyers of boy boxers the very same thing.

It is not in the nature of pitbulls to attack people. It never has been. They were never bred as a guarding dog. And the fight has been bred out of most of them anyhow.

There are very few dog fighters about, and you wouldn't want to approach t hem as "a peer" anyhow.

And the fighting dawgs are unaffected. As ever, they are underground, being abused still, while the nice family pets are the ones bearing the brunt of this.

The pitbulls affected by BSL are not fighting dogs, they are simply family pets.

Read my lips - it has nothing to do with pitbulls. Pitbulls were simply a breed which was chosen to be the first dog which was banned.

THE FIRST DOG.

Not because of anything they had done. More breeds have been added to the bans, and more will be added. More will be restricted, as in Germany.

The American Pit Bull Terrier and the "media pitbull" about which we hear so much have absolutely nothing in common.

Keep researching. I did. It's a shame you wont get to meet some nice pitbulls.

I spent a day at an expo with a pitbull - all the kids had a cuddle, all the mums had a pat, and then said "oh, how cute what is it?"

"AARRGGH, a PIT BULL!!!" They couldn't believe it. They'd been up close and personal with a PITBULL. Which in truth, was a nice small to medium sized, red dog with a red nose, and a good attitude, and a happy, waggy disposition, happy to meet and greet all comers.

The really scary thing of the day was not the pitbull, it was the police GSD's escaping, and coming over to eat us, pitbull and all. There were some scared pitbull supporters and some embarrassed policemen!!

Most of the people in favour of the bans have never had anything to do with the breed, so you tend to believe what is in the newspapers.

How do you know they were GSD's Jed, did you see their pedigree papers and match the ear tatoo???. They may have been GSD Dutch Shepherd cross with a bit of Belgian Malinios in the mix???. Because their ears stick up, doesn't make them GSD's, and you know GSD's are not supposed to be savage by the breed standard. They must have been some cross breed dogs, couldn't be GSD's, all dogs can bite, it's the deed not the breed!!!.

This is a stupid response Jed, but no more stupid than the responses from the APBT supporters which are always on the same lines as this which I have written purely to highlight how silly responses like this look in support of a breed

Poor attempt at irony is actually sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.

It never stops Justin, same old defence over and over again. I know two APBT breeders well who both have some truely great dogs of their own, but both have PTS several highly aggressive Pits over the years that they believed were no good for the average pet owner and a liability in the wrong hands.

And there have been GSD euthed for aggression, and Amstaffs, and LGV,and cattledogs. If this is your argument, I don't think you are on the correct page.

This is the page that the APBT supporters should be on if they are seriously looking to release the breed from BSL. Rarely does any APBT supporter ever admit they can be aggressive and it's always as I posted before. A bit of honesty and reality goes along way I think???

Well, it certainly would. ACD, GSD, Labrador are very well ahead, and have been ahead of pitbulls, staffies and amstaffs in the bite stats in Aust for 15 years.

Maybe YOU could tell the government that, as you think honesty and reality goes a long way?

Of course, others have told them, but they are not listening. Maybe they would listen to you?

And then they could ban ACD, GSD and Labradors?

[tybrax]

If the DoL people are the same people that are at the forefront of anti-BSL campaigning then they havn't got a hope in Hades of changing BSL legislation with their attitude.

Thats why the Supreme Court case was just won.

Great t-Shirts Rottnbullies

tybrax

[geo]

If the DoL people are the same people that are at the forefront of anti-BSL campaigning then they havn't got a hope in Hades of changing BSL legislation with their attitude.

Thats why the Supreme Court case was just won. :D

Great t-Shirts Rottnbullies

tybrax

So what were the findings? Is tango back home?

[WreckitWhippet]

If the DoL people are the same people that are at the forefront of anti-BSL campaigning then they havn't got a hope in Hades of changing BSL legislation with their attitude.

:D

Thats why the Supreme Court case was just won.

Great t-Shirts Rottnbullies

tybrax

So the supreme caser was won, what does that mean for BSL ? Is it going to go away now ?

[JustinMorgan]

If the DoL people are the same people that are at the forefront of anti-BSL campaigning then they havn't got a hope in Hades of changing BSL legislation with their attitude.

:D

Thats why the Supreme Court case was just won. ;)

Great t-Shirts Rottnbullies

tybrax

So the supreme caser was won, what does that mean for BSL ? Is it going to go away now ?

Would like to read this answer also.

[Tankass]

I keep coming across anti-BSL discussions saying this or that data are biased and the CDC data show that breed does not predict propensity to attack. I was just on the CDC site and the only dog attack data I could find was a paper by Sachs et al that is rather damning to the pitti and rotti. http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog50.pdf

Where is the data that are supposed to be unbiased?

This data is relative to the amount off dogs in the area. If the higher percentage of all dog owners in that area have Pit Bulls obviously more Pit bulls are going to be responsible for the attacks. This document could very easily be misleading. The number off all the breeds would need to be averaged out in to equal percentages to get a true indication if one of the breed is more likely to attack than the next.

[justin19801]

If the DoL people are the same people that are at the forefront of anti-BSL campaigning then they havn't got a hope in Hades of changing BSL legislation with their attitude.

Thats why the Supreme Court case was just won.

Great t-Shirts Rottnbullies

tybrax

So the supreme caser was won, what does that mean for BSL ? Is it going to go away now ?

I doubt it. The govt will no doubt try and legislate that AST and APBT are different even though their history says otherwise. They need a distraction for their unwillingness to provide pilots for the GBR oil boats.

Edited April 13, 2010 by justin19801

[justin19801]

I keep coming across anti-BSL discussions saying this or that data are biased and the CDC data show that breed does not predict propensity to attack. I was just on the CDC site and the only dog attack data I could find was a paper by Sachs et al that is rather damning to the pitti and rotti. http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog50.pdf

Where is the data that are supposed to be unbiased?

This data is relative to the amount off dogs in the area. If the higher percentage of all dog owners in that area have Pit Bulls obviously more Pit bulls are going to be responsible for the attacks. This document could very easily be misleading. The number off all the breeds would need to be averaged out in to equal percentages to get a true indication if one of the breed is more likely to attack than the next.

The CDC data also relies on media reports of the breed involved, not particularly statistically accurate.

[RottnBullies]

If the DoL people are the same people that are at the forefront of anti-BSL campaigning then they havn't got a hope in Hades of changing BSL legislation with their attitude.

;)

Thats why the Supreme Court case was just won. :D

Great t-Shirts Rottnbullies :p

tybrax

So the supreme caser was won, what does that mean for BSL ? Is it going to go away now ?

I doubt it. The govt will no doubt try and legislate that AST and APBT are different even though their history says otherwise. They need a distraction for their unwillingness to provide pilots for the GBR oil boats.

Why the hard on to lump these breeds Into one If I remember correctly you also

want to add the SBT In there too!

I just don't get It, I think atm people need too work hard on making sure the Am Staff

DOES NOT get added to the BSL list, then when this hurdle Is gone, we can start to concentrate on abolishing BSL again.

To me the more breeds are added the god damn harder It's going to get to try and do anything about It

I love the APBT but I absolutely would hate to see anyone else breed go through as what the APBT people have to go through, lumping them all In the same basket ain't going to do anyone any good! And In this Instance I don't care what the rest of the world classes them all as

ETA: The debate on whether they are the same Is always going to have die hard fans that say yes, and the ones that say no

Edited April 13, 2010 by RottnBullies

[justin19801]

If the DoL people are the same people that are at the forefront of anti-BSL campaigning then they havn't got a hope in Hades of changing BSL legislation with their attitude.

;)

Thats why the Supreme Court case was just won.

Great t-Shirts Rottnbullies :D

tybrax

So the supreme caser was won, what does that mean for BSL ? Is it going to go away now ?

I doubt it. The govt will no doubt try and legislate that AST and APBT are different even though their history says otherwise. They need a distraction for their unwillingness to provide pilots for the GBR oil boats.

Why the hard on to lump these breeds Into one If I remember correctly you also

want to add the SBT In there too!

I just don't get It, I think atm people need too work hard on making sure the Am Staff

DOES NOT get added to the BSL list, then when this hurdle Is gone, we can start to concentrate on abolishing BSL again.

To me the more breeds are added the god damn harder It's going to get to try and do anything about It

I love the APBT but I absolutely would hate to see anyone else breed go through as what the APBT people have to go through, lumping them all In the same basket ain't going to do anyone any good! And In this Instance I don't care what the rest of the world classes them all as :D

ETA: The debate on whether they are the same Is always going to have die hard fans that say yes, and the ones that say no

No new breeds have been added to the BSL list. The judge merely agreed with what the rest of the world already knows. Distancing the "breeds" hasn't worked anywhere else and has now failed here. Exactly what APBT owners have been saying for years. Better to end breed discrimination full stop. Any AST breeder that sells their dogs as different to APBTs is in my view being highly irresponsible, in Qld at least.

[Tankass]

The govt will no doubt try and legislate that AST and APBT are different even though their history says otherwise.

I am of the opinion that after 60 years of separate breeding for different attributes the APBT and AMStaffy’s are two different breeds. AMStaff’s have been bred for Shows and family pets. Not for fighting attributes. They started from the same breed but I believe they are two distinctly different dogs now. From the dogs I have seen AMStaffy’s are generally heavier with a larger head and are crazy goofy cuddly sooks. I am not saying APBT’s are not affectionate but the hand full of pure breeds I have met have been lovely but more reserved and stern. They looked taller but they may have been just because they had a more athletic build opposed to the wide appearance of the AMStaff. The dogs I have seen were never side by side.

I know they are many with a difference of opinion and arguments for both sides but the majority of breeders of each breed agree they are two different breeds and will not x bred them.

I can’t remember the names but there are two particular guys that have been going at this argument for years. Both have released publishments on the topic. One relies on historical documents and the other is a Dr relying on science. What I took away from both sides of the argument was a lot of the historical information was a bit vague and was getting interpreted the way he wanted it to sound. This was the pro APBT & AST being the same breed side of the argument. The Dr’s argument saying they are too different breeds now seemed a lot more factual.

The UKC considers them the same breed and will accept them to be dual registered as APBT and AMStaffy’s but the AKC will not accept UKC registered APBT to be registered as AMStaffy’s or vice versa.

Good read from a respected APBT breeder in the US: http://www.southernpitbulls.com/history.html

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/bull-and...ier-breeds.html

This is my opinion and I am not forcing it upon anyone. I think people should do there own research and form their own opinion.

[justin19801]

The govt will no doubt try and legislate that AST and APBT are different even though their history says otherwise.

I am of the opinion that after 60 years of separate breeding for different attributes the APBT and AMStaffy’s are two different breeds. AMStaff’s have been bred for Shows and family pets. Not for fighting attributes. They started from the same breed but I believe they are two distinctly different dogs now. From the dogs I have seen AMStaffy’s are generally heavier with a larger head and are crazy goofy cuddly sooks. I am not saying APBT’s are not affectionate but the hand full of pure breeds I have met have been lovely but more reserved and stern. They looked taller but they may have been just because they had a more athletic build opposed to the wide appearance of the AMStaff. The dogs I have seen were never side by side.

I know they are many with a difference of opinion and arguments for both sides but the majority of breeders of each breed agree they are two different breeds and will not x bred them.

I can’t remember the names but there are two particular guys that have been going at this argument for years. Both have released publishments on the topic. One relies on historical documents and the other is a Dr relying on science. What I took away from both sides of the argument was a lot of the historical information was a bit vague and was getting interpreted the way he wanted it to sound. This was the pro APBT & AST being the same breed side of the argument. The Dr’s argument saying they are too different breeds now seemed a lot more factual.

The UKC considers them the same breed and will accept them to be dual registered as APBT and AMStaffy’s but the AKC will not accept UKC registered APBT to be registered as AMStaffy’s or vice versa.

Good read from a respected APBT breeder in the US: http://www.southernpitbulls.com/history.html

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/bull-and...ier-breeds.html

This is my opinion and I am not forcing it upon anyone. I think people should do there own research and form their own opinion.

Due to the smaller gene pool AKC has opened it's stud books to UKC registered APBTs on at least three occasions, not to mention the initial dogs coming from fighting stock.

[ZBC]

The govt will no doubt try and legislate that AST and APBT are different even though their history says otherwise.

I am of the opinion that after 60 years of separate breeding for different attributes the APBT and AMStaffy’s are two different breeds. AMStaff’s have been bred for Shows and family pets. Not for fighting attributes. They started from the same breed but I believe they are two distinctly different dogs now. From the dogs I have seen AMStaffy’s are generally heavier with a larger head and are crazy goofy cuddly sooks. I am not saying APBT’s are not affectionate but the hand full of pure breeds I have met have been lovely but more reserved and stern. They looked taller but they may have been just because they had a more athletic build opposed to the wide appearance of the AMStaff. The dogs I have seen were never side by side.

I know they are many with a difference of opinion and arguments for both sides but the majority of breeders of each breed agree they are two different breeds and will not x bred them.

I can’t remember the names but there are two particular guys that have been going at this argument for years. Both have released publishments on the topic. One relies on historical documents and the other is a Dr relying on science. What I took away from both sides of the argument was a lot of the historical information was a bit vague and was getting interpreted the way he wanted it to sound. This was the pro APBT & AST being the same breed side of the argument. The Dr’s argument saying they are too different breeds now seemed a lot more factual.

The UKC considers them the same breed and will accept them to be dual registered as APBT and AMStaffy’s but the AKC will not accept UKC registered APBT to be registered as AMStaffy’s or vice versa.

Good read from a respected APBT breeder in the US: http://www.southernpitbulls.com/history.html

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/bull-and...ier-breeds.html

This is my opinion and I am not forcing it upon anyone. I think people should do there own research and form their own opinion.

............................................................

............................................

If the argument on history was based on the full lot of Colby books, there would be a very good chance it was accurate. From the earliest times, registrations as Staffordshires with AKC(of APBTs) were available--and I note Justin has posted of the opening up of the gene pool for the AKC dog bloodlines more than once!

THis is really a very difficult situation to argue conclusively,and would seem to swing on whether AKC and ANKC registered AST dogs can be shown to be pure for long enough for the "Difference" to be established

It is possible DNA tests will show this, but there seems no legal determination other than that in Chivers v GCCC and it sets an Australian precedent.

[bulldogz4eva]

You know I am a bit confused.You say you dont agree with bsl but you always seem to post something supporting it.Are you trying to convince others or convince yourself that its needed?

Without wading through all that I can tell you quite easily why the American Pitbull Terrier features highly in bite statistics.For one it is the most owned dog in the US.Numbers of registered American Pitbull Terriers is approximately 4.5 million and conservative estimates put the total number of 'pitbulls' at about twice that,so suffice to say they are the most popular breed in their country of origin.

Those statistics are quite old and irrelevant to Australia but their are very good reasons the stats climb over time and popularity is but one.

The question you should be asking is how the countries mascot,a nations pride go from much loved hero to the most demonised,hated child killing machine on the planet.Do some research and it might go some way to helping you understand the myth,the legend that is the pitbull.

So we have established that the APBT is the most popular dog in the US.That in itself is reason enough why it would be up there in any bite stats just by sheer weight of numbers but that is not the only reason.To understand the full story you have to dig a little deeper.If you go back in time to the time when dog fighting was outlawed in the US in 1976 and in the state of Louisiana in 1982.Around the same time the dogs started turning up here but I will come back to that.

Previous to this time the popularity of the dog wasnt as great.When dog fighting was outlawed many people got out of the dogs and there were plenty of dogs to be bought and people to cash in on the reputation and thats when the popularity sky rocketed.

You have to look at the reasons some people own a dog.Protection from a real or perceived threat.People in low socio economic areas obtaining the easiest dog to obtain.Backyard Breeding of dogs that should never have been bred from.The US gang culture and the pitbull as a status symbol go hand in hand you only have to watch mtv videos to see that.

I can guarantee you that the majority of those fatalities if investigated would have involved dogs of over 80 pounds.The real American Pitbull Terrier was never bred to be a dog this large,so how did it get that big?Easy answer people selecting larger dogs and also crossing other breeds into them then back crossing them to pits to produce larger 'pitbulls'.These dogs are more marketable to gangsters and wannabe's and in a couple of decades they have bred a super pit that is no longer an American Pitbull Terrier and shouldnt be considered one.I can guarantee if you surveyed the average person in the street in the US and showed them pictures of various styles or pitbulls they would identify the 100+ pound monsters as the real pitbull becuase that is the publics perception.Not to mention the all encompassing term 'pitbull' which covers all dogs of a certain type.These dogs are no longer American Pitbull Terriers,they are not representative of the breed.The word Terrier means small dog not monster dog.They have taken the terrier out of the pitbull.

I'm still on the fence with BSL. I'm not sure which way to go but with the current situation with bull breed/crosses attacks the public demand action.

It's amazing that when people see statistics that don't suit their purpose then they'll pick it to pieces (as in what sandgrubber posted) yet if they see one where bull breeds/crosses arn't in the top 10 (havn't seen one of those yet) they'll wave it around for the whole world to see.

The tenacity and aggression in the APBT"S (again I only mention this bull breed because it's the one I am most familiar with) could be reduced substantially through proper breeding practice but from the 1980's imports till now that is not many generations. PLUS the breed didn't have the opportunity with BSL. Excepting of course the underground breeders which again won't do the breed any favors by breeding APBT's illegally. I'm sure the ones that frequent here hate me mentioning it and hate it every time I

The public should demand the government take action over dog attacks full stop and not just when one happens but now to protect the community against owners that will not do the right thing.That is the real issue.Bull breeds arent the only dogs that cause injury.I guess you would call any breeder of APBT an underground breeder and that is only your perception that they would be doing them no good.When there are none here do you think the government will suddenly take notice and say ok we will start again?They need to understand they will never get rid of them and if this is the case and it is they need to find a workable solution to catch those that fall through the cracks in the system.

believe that with proper breeding practices and the right imports, the APBT COULD have been an acceptable breed in this country. Unfortunately it is beyond that now in Australia. The breed paid the price for the wrong imports, the wrong people breeding and the wrong people owning.

I am sorry but I disagree.If you go back to where I said dog fighting was outlawed and around the same time the dogs started turning up here,you can thank your lucky stars for that becuase if these 100 pound monsters were imported here there would be fatalities.Dont worry about statistics there worry about here.Why is it in all those years no purebred American Pitbull Terrier has been responsible for a single fatality in this country?If they were such a threat to society as the media and government would have us believe why no fatalities.That in itself is a testament to the breed and reinforces the history of the breed in the fact that Human aggressive dogs were culled.

If the APBT owners on this forum are representative of the majority mentality within this breed then they will never get my vote.

-Glorifying "fighting dogs"

-Underground illegal breeding

-Openly acknowledge that they register their APBT's as crossbreds.

-Openly acknowledge that they would falsify pedigrees to get their dogs registered with the ANKC (if that ever happen)

-Are in total denial of the breeds short comings

Who is glorifying dog fighting?There is a difference between acknoledging something and glorifying it.Failure to accept one's history or denial that it happend is to deny his very existance.

You will say anyone who breeds and APBT is an underground breeder.What did you think they were going to do just give up there dogs becuase some no nothing in his ivory tower said they should.Giving up something for no good reason and without a fight in my view is just UNAUSTRALIAN.

If a dog is registered as something he is not and he never gets into any trouble never has.the council have never had any reason to come around becuase of his behaviour and he is a much loved pet that would do no harm.Who gets hurt? A: No one.

I am the one who first made the statement about falsifying papers and it was more said tongue in cheek to piss of Dougie but I wanted him to know just how easily it could be done and If I wanted to I could do it but I have no real need but I will do what I have to to keep my dogs safe.

The real dog fighters live outside of the law and this law never affected them and it wasnt going to it is the rest of us that have to look over our shoulders.They dont care because they never did and nothing changed for them.

Poor attempt at irony is actually sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.

Thats because thats all some people have got

(Might add, I think adding new potentially problematic breeds to the mix is a bad idea. I can imagine what will happen when the underground elements get their hands on a few of the more aggressive sorts of fila and we end out with a 60 kg vicious dog becoming the 'cool' thing in the blood-sport underground. I also think BSL is not entirely bad, as it keeps pressure on the breed communities to keep their acts clean, not breed for aggression, and avoid selling to people who may think brutality is entertaining).

I know you have this thing for the Fila since you discovered his name.Maybe do a bit of research on other dogs.What about the Boerboel.They are already here.Read the real history about them and what they have been used for have a look at dog bited stats in SA and some of the horrific injuries.Have a look how there history aligns with the bullmastiff.I am not trying to malign this breed as I think they are a great dog.

Give me 10 years and plenty of money and I will breed you a dog far worse than any Fila and do it with dogs that are already here.I can guarantee you with 100% cetainty that it can be done as it is not that hard if it is your intention and you know what you are doing.That is why the government needs to put the onus on the owner not the breed of dog.

Edited April 22, 2010 by bulldogz4eva

[geo]

Good post Bulldogz!

[sandgrubber]

Without wading through all that I can tell you quite easily why the American Pitbull Terrier features highly in bite statistics.For one it is the most owned dog in the US.Numbers of registered American Pitbull Terriers is approximately 4.5 million and conservative estimates put the number of unregistered APBT's at about the same,so suffice to say they are the most popular breed in their country of origin.

Interesting. Where did your stats come from? I don't know where you find statistics on dog ownership by breed or how you conclude there are 4.5 million APBT's in the US. dontbullymybreed.org says the pit bull WAS the most popular breed in the US in the first half of the 20th century . . . but gives no references. They also say Pittis are extremely common in some places, eg, Chicago. I was born and raised in the US and lived there for about 45 years. I met a lot of dogs. Not many APBT's however. According to the AKC the Labrador is the most popular breed, topping registrations of any other breed by around a factor of two. Next most popular is the GSD, followed by (surprise to me) the Yorkshire Terrier.

Btw. Yes I do have a thing about the Filo, partly from having spent time in Brazil, but mostly because, in the reading I've done on dog temperament, the Filo is the most extreme breed in the extent to which, by breed standard in its country of origin, dogs are expected to be hostile to unfamiliar people. If you can find another breed where pups are expected to snarl at strangers by 12 weeks, or where biting the judge at a dog show is acceptable, I'll be happy to add that breed to my personal list of breeds I think should be prohibited from import. I am against BSL in most cases, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. An import ban on a breed selected for HA is prevention.

Edited April 21, 2010 by sandgrubber

[BJean]

Btw. Yes I do have a thing about the Filo, partly from having spent time in Brazil, but mostly because, in the reading I've done on dog temperament, the Filo is the most extreme breed in the extent to which, by breed standard in its country of origin, dogs are expected to be hostile to unfamiliar people. If you can find another breed where pups are expected to snarl at strangers by 12 weeks, or where biting the judge at a dog show is acceptable, I'll be happy to add that breed to my personal list of breeds I think should be prohibited from import. I am against BSL in most cases, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. An import ban on a breed selected for HA is prevention.

Oh no thanks

I don think you need any encouragement to add more breeds to your list of massive assumptions where there is little actual knowledge or understanding.

Come on.

fwiw

did you know the Fila was in Australia?

bet you didn't know that!

and shock horror

wtf

noone was killed!

maybe they were in WA ... wil find out ...

geezuz you could have been living next to a HA killer and bloody hell you survived ...

:nahnah:

until you are familiar with what consitutes are good guard dog and why and what that means

perhaps lay off the Fila

bcz you just read as all numpty and no nouse.

cheers

Edited April 21, 2010 by lilli

[geo]

Btw. Yes I do have a thing about the Filo, partly from having spent time in Brazil, but mostly because, in the reading I've done on dog temperament, the Filo is the most extreme breed in the extent to which, by breed standard in its country of origin, dogs are expected to be hostile to unfamiliar people. If you can find another breed where pups are expected to snarl at strangers by 12 weeks, or where biting the judge at a dog show is acceptable, I'll be happy to add that breed to my personal list of breeds I think should be prohibited from import. I am against BSL in most cases, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. An import ban on a breed selected for HA is prevention.

Filo?! what are they, pastry?!!! FILA! got to agree with lilli, being hostile whilst guarding property is different to being out in the streets and being HA.

People on this forum should remember that their experiences are just that.. that does not make them experts, unless you've owned one Sandgrubber or several for that matter maybe you shouldn't be spouting what you've read or heard.

I've owned several dogs, well read but by no means an expert in any breed as far as my experience has shown is that all dogs are different even litter mates, if a breeder with years experience was to come on here and pass opinion then i would listen until someone does i'll form my own opinion and not try to tell others what breeds behave in which manner, especially if i've not owned one.

[sandgrubber]

You miss the point. When breeders and the breed standard choose to represent a breed, any breed, in HA term, it's bad news. I would bet my net worth that most of the Filos in Brasil have never hurt anyone . . . just as most of the guard dogs worldwide have never been challenged and we don't know how much blood they would draw if put to the extreme.

As for 'never owning one': I don't want a guard dog. There are situations in which guard dogs are appropriate, but they don't arise in my lifestyle.

If Australia had as many problems with child kidnapping for ransoms as Brasil does, I'd say there would be a reason to import Filos. But that's not the case. Nor do I think the Filo would be effective for guarding livestock under Australian conditions. I think they would be used to increase the size and ferocity of pig dogs and pit fighting dogs. I'm not a gambler, but if I bet on dog fights, I'd put my bucks on the line for an APBT from fighting lines X Filo brasiliero with good display of HA/DA. I think both the fierce pig dog and the bigger-better pit fight are to be discouraged. Who cares if a few Filo's have been imported. They may have been rejects who display insufficient hostility to strangers to satisfy the breed standard, and may have been good contributions to the Australian scene. Or they may have been extreme guard dogs, whose genetic contribution may have been a problem. I think importing extreme guarding instincts is equally as dangerous as importing rabies.

Btw, I'm still waiting on any evidence that the APBT is the most common breed in the USA.

any takers on that challenge?

I don't like blood sports, but happy to tough it out in pit fights of evidence and intellect. They are the guts of science . . . and how we get closer to truth that withstands the challenges of reason and evidence.

and please explain, "bcz you just read as all numpty and no nouse." Numpty and nouse are not in my dictionary.

If people proclaim their bloodlines as such, do you think we shouldn't take them at their word?

Btw. Yes I do have a thing about the Filo, partly from having spent time in Brazil, but mostly because, in the reading I've done on dog temperament, the Filo is the most extreme breed in the extent to which, by breed standard in its country of origin, dogs are expected to be hostile to unfamiliar people. If you can find another breed where pups are expected to snarl at strangers by 12 weeks, or where biting the judge at a dog show is acceptable, I'll be happy to add that breed to my personal list of breeds I think should be prohibited from import. I am against BSL in most cases, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. An import ban on a breed selected for HA is prevention.

Oh no thanks

I don think you need any encouragement to add more breeds to your list of massive assumptions where there is little actual knowledge or understanding.

Come on.

fwiw

did you know the Fila was in Australia?

bet you didn't know that!

and shock horror

wtf

noone was killed!

maybe they were in WA ... wil find out ...

geezuz you could have been living next to a HA killer and bloody hell you survived ...

;)

until you are familiar with what consitutes are good guard dog and why and what that means

perhaps lay off the Fila

bcz you just read as all numpty and no nouse.

cheers

Edited April 22, 2010 by sandgrubber

[BJean]

You miss the point. When breeders and the breed standard choose to represent a breed, any breed, in HA term, it's bad news. I don't want a guard dog. There are situations in which guard dogs are appropriate, but they don't arise in my lifestyle. If Australia had as many problems with child kidnapping for ransoms as Brasil does, I'd say there would be a reason to import the breed. But that's not the case. Nor do I think the Filo would be effective for guarding livestock under Australian conditions.

No I think you do.

Best to stick with the Labs , hey.

This is getting ridiculous.