Cdc Data On Dog Attacks

[sandgrubber]

BDL - Breed Discriminatory Legislation.

The numbers are not just far from perfect but totally irrelevant for the reasons stated. Rather than present authoritative stats you quote rubbish used by ambulance chasing lawyer websites and hate sites. You ignore CDC statisticians and countries that have reversed BDL because it is ineffective. You claim to have made an honest attempt to form an opinon on BSL but have done no such thing.

In my considered opinion all you have done is place yourself in the same corner as racketeers and killers of harmless family pets based solely on their looks. Have you inspected the Calgary legislation which has been shown to be the most successful in North America? Of course not. If you wish to be taken seriously then present something useful. I will be the first to back BDL and have all killer breeds removed from society if you do because I certainly don't want killer dogs of any breed in society.

That was nasty and not very balanced. I try to base my opinions on solid evidence. I've been asking for numbers. Please give some indication of where the CDC statistics to which you refer can be found. I started this thread cause the anti-BSL people had been saying look at the CDC numbers. I found some numbers on the CDC website . . . those from Sachs et al. They didn't look good for the pit bull or rotti.

fyi: I do not generally favor BDL or BSL , though until the present BSL situation is resolved, I support import restrictions on breeds that I think will make an existing situation worse. If, as it sounds from other people's posts, the dog fighters are using dogos and filas to come up with bigger, stronger fighting dogs, we don't need it. People wanting a good pig dog or guard dog have plenty of options as it is.

I agree that BSL doesn't work well and ends out causing the deaths of many good, lovely, dogs, and heartbreak for their owners. I think those working to end BSL need to be honest in recognising problems in getting some individuals/booodlines within their breed to fit into society, and, to the extent that those problems are being perpetuated and made worse by a small group of people who love blood sport, I think breed fanciers need to come down on the group in question. As a Labrador breeder, there is no way I'm going to be able to approach a dog fighter as a 'peer'. As an APBT fancier, perhaps one who owns some awesome dogs, and who can talk credibly about bloodlines in the breed, people like you may have a chance.

Attacking and vilifying people who ask honest questions is a good way to turn the undecided against the APBT.

[whippets]

If the APBT owners on this forum are representative of the majority mentality within this breed then they will never get my vote.

-Glorifying "fighting dogs"

-Underground illegal breeding

-Openly acknowledge that they register their APBT's as crossbreds.

-Openly acknowledge that they would falsify pedigrees to get their dogs registered with the ANKC (if that ever happen)

-Are in total denial of the breeds short comings

I said it before and I'll say it again. This breed has paid the price because of stupid people. Registering them as mixed breeds will do nothing more than bring other breeds of dogs down with the APBT. I'm sure the registered, eithical, law abiding breeders will thank you all for that.

[justin19801]

If the APBT owners on this forum are representative of the majority mentality within this breed then they will never get my vote.

-Glorifying "fighting dogs"

-Underground illegal breeding

-Openly acknowledge that they register their APBT's as crossbreds.

-Openly acknowledge that they would falsify pedigrees to get their dogs registered with the ANKC (if that ever happen)

-Are in total denial of the breeds short comings

I said it before and I'll say it again. This breed has paid the price because of stupid people. Registering them as mixed breeds will do nothing more than bring other breeds of dogs down with the APBT. I'm sure the registered, eithical, law abiding breeders will thank you all for that.

No one is after your vote. It is fixed and in denial.

Who glorifies fighting dogs. They are part of the breeds history like the Staffy. Denying it wont make it go away. The dogs are themselves the ultimate victims of abuse.

The critics of illegal breeders will continue to speed and understate their tax. Perhaps their dogs shoulkd be seized and killed as well. Bad laws should be broken, or England would still be under the Raj and Apartheid in South Africa. I would prefer to act like an Oscar Schindler than a Heinrich Himmler.

People will do whatever it takes to save their dogs from the abusers, no problem there.

All breeds have shortcomings. Whippets being used for coursing are in the sights of some groups because of the cruelty involved.. I haven't heard anyone criticising their use, does that make them supporters?

If one supports BDL we would expect them to ban breeds which have killed in Australia for a start. Nope, the silence is deafening.

The APBT has paid the price because it was not well established in sufficient numbers. That's all. Now other breeds are in the R$PCA's sites. Watch this space.

[justin19801]

BDL - Breed Discriminatory Legislation.

The numbers are not just far from perfect but totally irrelevant for the reasons stated. Rather than present authoritative stats you quote rubbish used by ambulance chasing lawyer websites and hate sites. You ignore CDC statisticians and countries that have reversed BDL because it is ineffective. You claim to have made an honest attempt to form an opinon on BSL but have done no such thing.

In my considered opinion all you have done is place yourself in the same corner as racketeers and killers of harmless family pets based solely on their looks. Have you inspected the Calgary legislation which has been shown to be the most successful in North America? Of course not. If you wish to be taken seriously then present something useful. I will be the first to back BDL and have all killer breeds removed from society if you do because I certainly don't want killer dogs of any breed in society.

That was nasty and not very balanced. I try to base my opinions on solid evidence. I've been asking for numbers. Please give some indication of where the CDC statistics to which you refer can be found. I started this thread cause the anti-BSL people had been saying look at the CDC numbers. I found some numbers on the CDC website . . . those from Sachs et al. They didn't look good for the pit bull or rotti.

fyi: I do not generally favor BDL or BSL , though until the present BSL situation is resolved, I support import restrictions on breeds that I think will make an existing situation worse. If, as it sounds from other people's posts, the dog fighters are using dogos and filas to come up with bigger, stronger fighting dogs, we don't need it. People wanting a good pig dog or guard dog have plenty of options as it is.

I agree that BSL doesn't work well and ends out causing the deaths of many good, lovely, dogs, and heartbreak for their owners. I think those working to end BSL need to be honest in recognising problems in getting some individuals/booodlines within their breed to fit into society, and, to the extent that those problems are being perpetuated and made worse by a small group of people who love blood sport, I think breed fanciers need to come down on the group in question. As a Labrador breeder, there is no way I'm going to be able to approach a dog fighter as a 'peer'. As an APBT fancier, perhaps one who owns some awesome dogs, and who can talk credibly about bloodlines in the breed, people like you may have a chance.

Attacking and vilifying people who ask honest questions is a good way to turn the undecided against the APBT.

The old canard, why would one own one of those dogs except to fight it. Are Lab owners going to shoot the local birdlife at the park? Such a high IQ but so little common sense. Don't believe in BDL, except for APBTs. People who truly believe in BDL would ask for other breeds which have killed to be banned, but nope, their not APBTs.

[whippets]

Justin.

Your're right you don't have my vote.

Let me put it this way then. Start lobbying and comparing Whippets to the APBT in the public media. Then come back here and let me know how that works out for you.

It's the people involved with APBT's that have ruined the breed. Not me or any other ethical dog owner/breeder. I have read some of Mantis posts on her dog Kenny. I'm sure he is a gorgeous, loveable, loyal dog who never hurt a fly. I'm sure (actually dead certain) there would be others out there like his/her dog. It's these dogs and their owners that are paying the price for the wrong breeders and wrong owners. The wrong people are still out there and thriving (as per my points above in the previous post). If you don't "get it" now you never will.

This will keep going around in circles and nothing will change with BSL.

Edited March 28, 2010 by whippets

[tybrax]

No one is after your vote. It is fixed and in denial.

tybrax

[Jed]

Sandgrubber

I agree that BSL doesn't work well and ends out causing the deaths of many good, lovely, dogs, and heartbreak for their owners. I think those working to end BSL need to be honest in recognising problems in getting some individuals/booodlines within their breed to fit into society, and, to the extent that those problems are being perpetuated and made worse by a small group of people who love blood sport, I think breed fanciers need to come down on the group in question. As a Labrador breeder, there is no way I'm going to be able to approach a dog fighter as a 'peer'. As an APBT fancier, perhaps one who owns some awesome dogs, and who can talk credibly about bloodlines in the breed, people like you may have a chance.

The problem is, you (universal "you") read the media reports. Pitbulls look pretty bad. Wouldn't want one living next door. Nasty bloody things, turn in a flash and kill the kids.

The majority of pitbulls are simply dogs, with the same attributes for their breed as other breeds. Sure, the boys may want to fight. I know plenty of reputable staffy breeders who tell owners to be careful about the staffy fighting. I tell buyers of boy boxers the very same thing.

It is not in the nature of pitbulls to attack people. It never has been. They were never bred as a guarding dog. And the fight has been bred out of most of them anyhow.

There are very few dog fighters about, and you wouldn't want to approach t hem as "a peer" anyhow.

And the fighting dawgs are unaffected. As ever, they are underground, being abused still, while the nice family pets are the ones bearing the brunt of this.

The pitbulls affected by BSL are not fighting dogs, they are simply family pets.

Read my lips - it has nothing to do with pitbulls. Pitbulls were simply a breed which was chosen to be the first dog which was banned.

THE FIRST DOG.

Not because of anything they had done. More breeds have been added to the bans, and more will be added. More will be restricted, as in Germany.

The American Pit Bull Terrier and the "media pitbull" about which we hear so much have absolutely nothing in common.

Keep researching. I did. It's a shame you wont get to meet some nice pitbulls.

I spent a day at an expo with a pitbull - all the kids had a cuddle, all the mums had a pat, and then said "oh, how cute what is it?"

"AARRGGH, a PIT BULL!!!" They couldn't believe it. They'd been up close and personal with a PITBULL. Which in truth, was a nice small to medium sized, red dog with a red nose, and a good attitude, and a happy, waggy disposition, happy to meet and greet all comers.

The really scary thing of the day was not the pitbull, it was the police GSD's escaping, and coming over to eat us, pitbull and all. There were some scared pitbull supporters and some embarrassed policemen!!

Most of the people in favour of the bans have never had anything to do with the breed, so you tend to believe what is in the newspapers.

[RottnBullies]

If the APBT owners on this forum are representative of the majority mentality within this breed then they will never get my vote.

You have done nothing but put this breed down at every chance you got!

Your response here Is not surprising, but what you're doing In actual fact along with the rest of them BSL supporters Is condemning an entire breed based on some bad people who choose to own them!........ Sleep well, I'm sure It's no skin off your back.

You will not be the one who will cry tears of sadness as they're dog was noosed away to it's death, because It's only crime was to look a certain way.

[Longcoat]

Sandgrubber

I agree that BSL doesn't work well and ends out causing the deaths of many good, lovely, dogs, and heartbreak for their owners. I think those working to end BSL need to be honest in recognising problems in getting some individuals/booodlines within their breed to fit into society, and, to the extent that those problems are being perpetuated and made worse by a small group of people who love blood sport, I think breed fanciers need to come down on the group in question. As a Labrador breeder, there is no way I'm going to be able to approach a dog fighter as a 'peer'. As an APBT fancier, perhaps one who owns some awesome dogs, and who can talk credibly about bloodlines in the breed, people like you may have a chance.

The problem is, you (universal "you") read the media reports. Pitbulls look pretty bad. Wouldn't want one living next door. Nasty bloody things, turn in a flash and kill the kids.

The majority of pitbulls are simply dogs, with the same attributes for their breed as other breeds. Sure, the boys may want to fight. I know plenty of reputable staffy breeders who tell owners to be careful about the staffy fighting. I tell buyers of boy boxers the very same thing.

It is not in the nature of pitbulls to attack people. It never has been. They were never bred as a guarding dog. And the fight has been bred out of most of them anyhow.

There are very few dog fighters about, and you wouldn't want to approach t hem as "a peer" anyhow.

And the fighting dawgs are unaffected. As ever, they are underground, being abused still, while the nice family pets are the ones bearing the brunt of this.

The pitbulls affected by BSL are not fighting dogs, they are simply family pets.

Read my lips - it has nothing to do with pitbulls. Pitbulls were simply a breed which was chosen to be the first dog which was banned.

THE FIRST DOG.

Not because of anything they had done. More breeds have been added to the bans, and more will be added. More will be restricted, as in Germany.

The American Pit Bull Terrier and the "media pitbull" about which we hear so much have absolutely nothing in common.

Keep researching. I did. It's a shame you wont get to meet some nice pitbulls.

I spent a day at an expo with a pitbull - all the kids had a cuddle, all the mums had a pat, and then said "oh, how cute what is it?"

"AARRGGH, a PIT BULL!!!" They couldn't believe it. They'd been up close and personal with a PITBULL. Which in truth, was a nice small to medium sized, red dog with a red nose, and a good attitude, and a happy, waggy disposition, happy to meet and greet all comers.

The really scary thing of the day was not the pitbull, it was the police GSD's escaping, and coming over to eat us, pitbull and all. There were some scared pitbull supporters and some embarrassed policemen!!

Most of the people in favour of the bans have never had anything to do with the breed, so you tend to believe what is in the newspapers.

How do you know they were GSD's Jed, did you see their pedigree papers and match the ear tatoo???. They may have been GSD Dutch Shepherd cross with a bit of Belgian Malinios in the mix???. Because their ears stick up, doesn't make them GSD's, and you know GSD's are not supposed to be savage by the breed standard. They must have been some cross breed dogs, couldn't be GSD's, all dogs can bite, it's the deed not the breed!!!.

This is a stupid response Jed, but no more stupid than the responses from the APBT supporters which are always on the same lines as this which I have written purely to highlight how silly responses like this look in support of a breed

[justin19801]

Sandgrubber

I agree that BSL doesn't work well and ends out causing the deaths of many good, lovely, dogs, and heartbreak for their owners. I think those working to end BSL need to be honest in recognising problems in getting some individuals/booodlines within their breed to fit into society, and, to the extent that those problems are being perpetuated and made worse by a small group of people who love blood sport, I think breed fanciers need to come down on the group in question. As a Labrador breeder, there is no way I'm going to be able to approach a dog fighter as a 'peer'. As an APBT fancier, perhaps one who owns some awesome dogs, and who can talk credibly about bloodlines in the breed, people like you may have a chance.

The problem is, you (universal "you") read the media reports. Pitbulls look pretty bad. Wouldn't want one living next door. Nasty bloody things, turn in a flash and kill the kids.

The majority of pitbulls are simply dogs, with the same attributes for their breed as other breeds. Sure, the boys may want to fight. I know plenty of reputable staffy breeders who tell owners to be careful about the staffy fighting. I tell buyers of boy boxers the very same thing.

It is not in the nature of pitbulls to attack people. It never has been. They were never bred as a guarding dog. And the fight has been bred out of most of them anyhow.

There are very few dog fighters about, and you wouldn't want to approach t hem as "a peer" anyhow.

And the fighting dawgs are unaffected. As ever, they are underground, being abused still, while the nice family pets are the ones bearing the brunt of this.

The pitbulls affected by BSL are not fighting dogs, they are simply family pets.

Read my lips - it has nothing to do with pitbulls. Pitbulls were simply a breed which was chosen to be the first dog which was banned.

THE FIRST DOG.

Not because of anything they had done. More breeds have been added to the bans, and more will be added. More will be restricted, as in Germany.

The American Pit Bull Terrier and the "media pitbull" about which we hear so much have absolutely nothing in common.

Keep researching. I did. It's a shame you wont get to meet some nice pitbulls.

I spent a day at an expo with a pitbull - all the kids had a cuddle, all the mums had a pat, and then said "oh, how cute what is it?"

"AARRGGH, a PIT BULL!!!" They couldn't believe it. They'd been up close and personal with a PITBULL. Which in truth, was a nice small to medium sized, red dog with a red nose, and a good attitude, and a happy, waggy disposition, happy to meet and greet all comers.

The really scary thing of the day was not the pitbull, it was the police GSD's escaping, and coming over to eat us, pitbull and all. There were some scared pitbull supporters and some embarrassed policemen!!

Most of the people in favour of the bans have never had anything to do with the breed, so you tend to believe what is in the newspapers.

How do you know they were GSD's Jed, did you see their pedigree papers and match the ear tatoo???. They may have been GSD Dutch Shepherd cross with a bit of Belgian Malinios in the mix???. Because their ears stick up, doesn't make them GSD's, and you know GSD's are not supposed to be savage by the breed standard. They must have been some cross breed dogs, couldn't be GSD's, all dogs can bite, it's the deed not the breed!!!.

This is a stupid response Jed, but no more stupid than the responses from the APBT supporters which are always on the same lines as this which I have written purely to highlight how silly responses like this look in support of a breed

Poor attempt at irony is actually sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.

[sandgrubber]

A response without copying all the quotes and quotes and quotes on quotes. Gets snarly.

I have met some nice pittis in the US (California) . . . I was born in the US and lived there most of my life. I have also met some not-so-nice pittis. I am against BSL for pittis. It's bad law . . . it does not deliver justice and condemns a lot of innocents. The ambiguity of breed identification is bound to create problems. But I'm also against the cultivation of circumstances that end out with dogs and occasionally people getting maimed or killed. No number of pictures of dogs curled up with kittens is going to successfully counter what seem to be the best available statistics. (Might add, I think adding new potentially problematic breeds to the mix is a bad idea. I can imagine what will happen when the underground elements get their hands on a few of the more aggressive sorts of fila and we end out with a 60 kg vicious dog becoming the 'cool' thing in the blood-sport underground. I also think BSL is not entirely bad, as it keeps pressure on the breed communities to keep their acts clean, not breed for aggression, and avoid selling to people who may think brutality is entertaining).

As before . . . if you think the available dog attack / fatality statistics are worthless, please provide better ones, or even say how better ones could be constructed, given the huge ambiguity around breed identification.

Edited March 29, 2010 by sandgrubber

[chrisjc]

the pitbull owners do not want help from people who are paranoid and delusional.

some of you you wouldnt beleive someone knocked on your front door until you opened it and saw the person knocking standing there.

[Jed]

Longcoat

How do you know they were GSD's Jed, did you see their pedigree papers and match the ear tatoo???. They may have been GSD Dutch Shepherd cross with a bit of Belgian Malinios in the mix???. Because their ears stick up, doesn't make them GSD's, and you know GSD's are not supposed to be savage by the breed standard. They must have been some cross breed dogs, couldn't be GSD's, all dogs can bite, it's the deed not the breed!!!.

I know because I was speaking to the nice policemen earlier in the day, and they told me their dog squad which was at the expo consisted of ALL REGISTERED GERMAN SHEPHERD DOGS.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Jed

[Jed]

Sandgrubber, I believe we would be further ahead - as I have said before - if councils enforced the existing legislation via ACO's actually doing something about reports of dogs behaving badly, and being out, or killing other dogs at dog parks.

Instead - in Q anyhow - they were rounding up all the "pitbulls".

I don't believe BSL makes anyone "clean up their act". The people and dogs targetted, imo, were squeaky clean anyhow. To repeat myself - the fighting dogs, and the bad dogs were underground, and went futher underground.

Now, instead of papered APBT bred by responsible people, we have dogs bred by people with no regard for the law, and probably little knowledge or sense.

Which makes the situation worse.

As before . . . if you think the available dog attack / fatality statistics are worthless, please provide better ones, or even say how better ones could be constructed, given the huge ambiguity around breed identification.

Look at the Australian stats. There are some adjusted by breed numbers which are illuminating.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Jed

[Longcoat]

Sandgrubber

I agree that BSL doesn't work well and ends out causing the deaths of many good, lovely, dogs, and heartbreak for their owners. I think those working to end BSL need to be honest in recognising problems in getting some individuals/booodlines within their breed to fit into society, and, to the extent that those problems are being perpetuated and made worse by a small group of people who love blood sport, I think breed fanciers need to come down on the group in question. As a Labrador breeder, there is no way I'm going to be able to approach a dog fighter as a 'peer'. As an APBT fancier, perhaps one who owns some awesome dogs, and who can talk credibly about bloodlines in the breed, people like you may have a chance.

The problem is, you (universal "you") read the media reports. Pitbulls look pretty bad. Wouldn't want one living next door. Nasty bloody things, turn in a flash and kill the kids.

The majority of pitbulls are simply dogs, with the same attributes for their breed as other breeds. Sure, the boys may want to fight. I know plenty of reputable staffy breeders who tell owners to be careful about the staffy fighting. I tell buyers of boy boxers the very same thing.

It is not in the nature of pitbulls to attack people. It never has been. They were never bred as a guarding dog. And the fight has been bred out of most of them anyhow.

There are very few dog fighters about, and you wouldn't want to approach t hem as "a peer" anyhow.

And the fighting dawgs are unaffected. As ever, they are underground, being abused still, while the nice family pets are the ones bearing the brunt of this.

The pitbulls affected by BSL are not fighting dogs, they are simply family pets.

Read my lips - it has nothing to do with pitbulls. Pitbulls were simply a breed which was chosen to be the first dog which was banned.

THE FIRST DOG.

Not because of anything they had done. More breeds have been added to the bans, and more will be added. More will be restricted, as in Germany.

The American Pit Bull Terrier and the "media pitbull" about which we hear so much have absolutely nothing in common.

Keep researching. I did. It's a shame you wont get to meet some nice pitbulls.

I spent a day at an expo with a pitbull - all the kids had a cuddle, all the mums had a pat, and then said "oh, how cute what is it?"

"AARRGGH, a PIT BULL!!!" They couldn't believe it. They'd been up close and personal with a PITBULL. Which in truth, was a nice small to medium sized, red dog with a red nose, and a good attitude, and a happy, waggy disposition, happy to meet and greet all comers.

The really scary thing of the day was not the pitbull, it was the police GSD's escaping, and coming over to eat us, pitbull and all. There were some scared pitbull supporters and some embarrassed policemen!!

Most of the people in favour of the bans have never had anything to do with the breed, so you tend to believe what is in the newspapers.

How do you know they were GSD's Jed, did you see their pedigree papers and match the ear tatoo???. They may have been GSD Dutch Shepherd cross with a bit of Belgian Malinios in the mix???. Because their ears stick up, doesn't make them GSD's, and you know GSD's are not supposed to be savage by the breed standard. They must have been some cross breed dogs, couldn't be GSD's, all dogs can bite, it's the deed not the breed!!!.

This is a stupid response Jed, but no more stupid than the responses from the APBT supporters which are always on the same lines as this which I have written purely to highlight how silly responses like this look in support of a breed :D

Poor attempt at irony is actually sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.

It never stops Justin, same old defence over and over again. I know two APBT breeders well who both have some truely great dogs of their own, but both have PTS several highly aggressive Pits over the years that they believed were no good for the average pet owner and a liability in the wrong hands.

[Jed]

Sandgrubber

I agree that BSL doesn't work well and ends out causing the deaths of many good, lovely, dogs, and heartbreak for their owners. I think those working to end BSL need to be honest in recognising problems in getting some individuals/booodlines within their breed to fit into society, and, to the extent that those problems are being perpetuated and made worse by a small group of people who love blood sport, I think breed fanciers need to come down on the group in question. As a Labrador breeder, there is no way I'm going to be able to approach a dog fighter as a 'peer'. As an APBT fancier, perhaps one who owns some awesome dogs, and who can talk credibly about bloodlines in the breed, people like you may have a chance.

The problem is, you (universal "you") read the media reports. Pitbulls look pretty bad. Wouldn't want one living next door. Nasty bloody things, turn in a flash and kill the kids.

The majority of pitbulls are simply dogs, with the same attributes for their breed as other breeds. Sure, the boys may want to fight. I know plenty of reputable staffy breeders who tell owners to be careful about the staffy fighting. I tell buyers of boy boxers the very same thing.

It is not in the nature of pitbulls to attack people. It never has been. They were never bred as a guarding dog. And the fight has been bred out of most of them anyhow.

There are very few dog fighters about, and you wouldn't want to approach t hem as "a peer" anyhow.

And the fighting dawgs are unaffected. As ever, they are underground, being abused still, while the nice family pets are the ones bearing the brunt of this.

The pitbulls affected by BSL are not fighting dogs, they are simply family pets.

Read my lips - it has nothing to do with pitbulls. Pitbulls were simply a breed which was chosen to be the first dog which was banned.

THE FIRST DOG.

Not because of anything they had done. More breeds have been added to the bans, and more will be added. More will be restricted, as in Germany.

The American Pit Bull Terrier and the "media pitbull" about which we hear so much have absolutely nothing in common.

Keep researching. I did. It's a shame you wont get to meet some nice pitbulls.

I spent a day at an expo with a pitbull - all the kids had a cuddle, all the mums had a pat, and then said "oh, how cute what is it?"

"AARRGGH, a PIT BULL!!!" They couldn't believe it. They'd been up close and personal with a PITBULL. Which in truth, was a nice small to medium sized, red dog with a red nose, and a good attitude, and a happy, waggy disposition, happy to meet and greet all comers.

The really scary thing of the day was not the pitbull, it was the police GSD's escaping, and coming over to eat us, pitbull and all. There were some scared pitbull supporters and some embarrassed policemen!!

Most of the people in favour of the bans have never had anything to do with the breed, so you tend to believe what is in the newspapers.

How do you know they were GSD's Jed, did you see their pedigree papers and match the ear tatoo???. They may have been GSD Dutch Shepherd cross with a bit of Belgian Malinios in the mix???. Because their ears stick up, doesn't make them GSD's, and you know GSD's are not supposed to be savage by the breed standard. They must have been some cross breed dogs, couldn't be GSD's, all dogs can bite, it's the deed not the breed!!!.

This is a stupid response Jed, but no more stupid than the responses from the APBT supporters which are always on the same lines as this which I have written purely to highlight how silly responses like this look in support of a breed :D

Poor attempt at irony is actually sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.

It never stops Justin, same old defence over and over again. I know two APBT breeders well who both have some truely great dogs of their own, but both have PTS several highly aggressive Pits over the years that they believed were no good for the average pet owner and a liability in the wrong hands.

And there have been GSD euthed for aggression, and Amstaffs, and LGV,and cattledogs. If this is your argument, I don't think you are on the correct page.

[RottnBullies]

[quote name='Longcoat' date='29th Mar 2010 - 09:43 PM' post='4425643'

It never stops Justin, same old defence over and over again. I know two APBT breeders well who both have some truely great dogs of their own, but both have PTS several highly aggressive Pits over the years that they believed were no good for the average pet owner and a liability in the wrong hands.

And your point Is

This Is also getting very old, many working line breeds out there who are not for your average dog owner, should we ban them too ? lots of breeds have the potential to be a liability In the wrong hands too!

[Jed]

I can not understand why people come to the BSL forum to bag pitbulls, or justify their breed, or to support BSL. Why bother ? If you support BSL, you are on the winning side, be happy with that.

You wont be happy when your breed is included but that is in the future, so you don't need to worry about it.

Does it make you feel good to give others a hard time? Are you gloating? Does it give you a vicarious thrill to think about all the pitbulls knocked off?

Or are you trying to talk others out of supporting anti BSL laws?

What's your point? You've never done any reseach, only going on what is printed in the media, or what you think.

Very odd.

[RottnBullies]

What you DO need for the anti-BSL campaigns are articulate, level headed, intelligent people. This is probably one of the reasons why restrictions on GSD's have succeeded and APBT's have failed. I certainly don't see it in the posts that I have read. All I've read are attacks on people who don't agree or the use of fear tactics to gain favor (your breed will be next!!!). The approach is WRONG and the attitudes are WRONG.

You have no idea! These are not fear tactics at all, "Your Breed May Be Next" Is In actual fact a lot closer to happening now more than ever. Good luck to the ANKC In protecting their breeds, they're going to need It.

I can not understand why people come to the BSL forum to bag pitbulls, or justify their breed, or to support BSL. Why bother ? If you support BSL, you are on the winning side, be happy with that.

Me either Jed,

And for those having a go at the BSL T's slogans, what's It to you what I write

I have every right to support the APBT In any which way I choose, and I speak the truth In every single one!

you don't like them, don't look at them It's that simple really!

[Longcoat]

Sandgrubber

I agree that BSL doesn't work well and ends out causing the deaths of many good, lovely, dogs, and heartbreak for their owners. I think those working to end BSL need to be honest in recognising problems in getting some individuals/booodlines within their breed to fit into society, and, to the extent that those problems are being perpetuated and made worse by a small group of people who love blood sport, I think breed fanciers need to come down on the group in question. As a Labrador breeder, there is no way I'm going to be able to approach a dog fighter as a 'peer'. As an APBT fancier, perhaps one who owns some awesome dogs, and who can talk credibly about bloodlines in the breed, people like you may have a chance.

The problem is, you (universal "you") read the media reports. Pitbulls look pretty bad. Wouldn't want one living next door. Nasty bloody things, turn in a flash and kill the kids.

The majority of pitbulls are simply dogs, with the same attributes for their breed as other breeds. Sure, the boys may want to fight. I know plenty of reputable staffy breeders who tell owners to be careful about the staffy fighting. I tell buyers of boy boxers the very same thing.

It is not in the nature of pitbulls to attack people. It never has been. They were never bred as a guarding dog. And the fight has been bred out of most of them anyhow.

There are very few dog fighters about, and you wouldn't want to approach t hem as "a peer" anyhow.

And the fighting dawgs are unaffected. As ever, they are underground, being abused still, while the nice family pets are the ones bearing the brunt of this.

The pitbulls affected by BSL are not fighting dogs, they are simply family pets.

Read my lips - it has nothing to do with pitbulls. Pitbulls were simply a breed which was chosen to be the first dog which was banned.

THE FIRST DOG.

Not because of anything they had done. More breeds have been added to the bans, and more will be added. More will be restricted, as in Germany.

The American Pit Bull Terrier and the "media pitbull" about which we hear so much have absolutely nothing in common.

Keep researching. I did. It's a shame you wont get to meet some nice pitbulls.

I spent a day at an expo with a pitbull - all the kids had a cuddle, all the mums had a pat, and then said "oh, how cute what is it?"

"AARRGGH, a PIT BULL!!!" They couldn't believe it. They'd been up close and personal with a PITBULL. Which in truth, was a nice small to medium sized, red dog with a red nose, and a good attitude, and a happy, waggy disposition, happy to meet and greet all comers.

The really scary thing of the day was not the pitbull, it was the police GSD's escaping, and coming over to eat us, pitbull and all. There were some scared pitbull supporters and some embarrassed policemen!!

Most of the people in favour of the bans have never had anything to do with the breed, so you tend to believe what is in the newspapers.

How do you know they were GSD's Jed, did you see their pedigree papers and match the ear tatoo???. They may have been GSD Dutch Shepherd cross with a bit of Belgian Malinios in the mix???. Because their ears stick up, doesn't make them GSD's, and you know GSD's are not supposed to be savage by the breed standard. They must have been some cross breed dogs, couldn't be GSD's, all dogs can bite, it's the deed not the breed!!!.

This is a stupid response Jed, but no more stupid than the responses from the APBT supporters which are always on the same lines as this which I have written purely to highlight how silly responses like this look in support of a breed

Poor attempt at irony is actually sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.

It never stops Justin, same old defence over and over again. I know two APBT breeders well who both have some truely great dogs of their own, but both have PTS several highly aggressive Pits over the years that they believed were no good for the average pet owner and a liability in the wrong hands.

And there have been GSD euthed for aggression, and Amstaffs, and LGV,and cattledogs. If this is your argument, I don't think you are on the correct page.

This is the page that the APBT supporters should be on if they are seriously looking to release the breed from BSL. Rarely does any APBT supporter ever admit they can be aggressive and it's always as I posted before. A bit of honesty and reality goes along way I think???