Shakti Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 My husband and i have seven children between us (blended family) and four of them live with us permanently. They range in age from 21 down to 12. We also foster babies and at-risk teenagers so we have a pretty busy household. Ben (my neutered GSd aged 5 years) has become increasingly unhappy over the past two years or so with having so many diffrent people living in the house. I have to add too that most of these kids can display some bizarre and very unpredictable behaviours. However, the situation has worsened despite my attending training classes, consulting behaviourists etc ( at a cost of a couple of thousand dollars all told) and I am now at a loss. Ben is very well-trained and is a joy to be alone with ie if I take him out for the day or if he and I are at home alone. He is quick to obey, affectionate, undemanding etc. The issue we have is that he will snap with zero warning (that I can perceive) and this is getting worse. He will be lying down calmly on his bed and then when one if the foster children goes past him, he will suddenly leap up snarling and showing his teeth and if I am not on the spot to order him to lie down he will actually snap at them. Twice now he has managed to rip a t-shirt in one instance and scrape his teeth along the jaw of one of the teen boys - not a bite but he punctured the skin. I am now keeping him outside when we are at home but I cannot guarantee that these kids will obey the house rules and not go outside without supervision. I am loathe to crate Ben all the time as this is no life fgor him plus he is used to being an inside dog. It has gotten to the point where I either keep Ben and we stop fostercare or I try to rehome Ben (but it would have to be to a very experienced owner) or I have him put down which would break my heart. But I really do not want to stop caring for these kids either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 My husband and i have seven children between us (blended family) and four of them live with us permanently. They range in age from 21 down to 12. We also foster babies and at-risk teenagers so we have a pretty busy household. Ben (my neutered GSd aged 5 years) has become increasingly unhappy over the past two years or so with having so many diffrent people living in the house. I have to add too that most of these kids can display some bizarre and very unpredictable behaviours.However, the situation has worsened despite my attending training classes, consulting behaviourists etc ( at a cost of a couple of thousand dollars all told) and I am now at a loss. Ben is very well-trained and is a joy to be alone with ie if I take him out for the day or if he and I are at home alone. He is quick to obey, affectionate, undemanding etc. The issue we have is that he will snap with zero warning (that I can perceive) and this is getting worse. He will be lying down calmly on his bed and then when one if the foster children goes past him, he will suddenly leap up snarling and showing his teeth and if I am not on the spot to order him to lie down he will actually snap at them. Twice now he has managed to rip a t-shirt in one instance and scrape his teeth along the jaw of one of the teen boys - not a bite but he punctured the skin. I am now keeping him outside when we are at home but I cannot guarantee that these kids will obey the house rules and not go outside without supervision. I am loathe to crate Ben all the time as this is no life fgor him plus he is used to being an inside dog. It has gotten to the point where I either keep Ben and we stop fostercare or I try to rehome Ben (but it would have to be to a very experienced owner) or I have him put down which would break my heart. But I really do not want to stop caring for these kids either! Can you get a dog enclosure for when he is outside so the kids are safe? Then maybe put a toddler gate on your bedroom for when he is indoors and tell the kids not to go in there? Then crate him overnight so the kids can still access you during the night? If you want more space for him indoors you could use a large C-crate or section off a corner of the room for him etc. Ben will adjust to being confined to certain areas while indoors quicker than you think. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Avanti* Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I have no advice but can understand why you would feel absolutely gutted. I wish you all the best finding a working solution. I had labrador that went through a patch like this and after a while his behaviour calmed and he stopped doing it . He had one bad experience that set him off but it's a long story and I don't wish to hijack your thread with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) How hard this must be for you! Just heartbreaking. What advice have your behaviorists given you? Have they been able to suggest management techniques, or given you any advice whether your situation is going to get worse or better? I'd want and have expected a plan on how best to manage his behaviour long term with a priority on keeping everyone safe. Really coaching you through this process. Edited March 23, 2010 by shel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Is the dog OK with predictable adults? I'm guessing you know that rehoming a dog that snaps is a dangerous business but at the same time, it sounds like your house is a particularly challenging one for a dog so perhaps his behaviour is manageable and it would be appropriate to adopt him out with full disclosure. Only you know if you can find a good home. That's obviously the ideal solution if you're not prepared to stop fostering. Otherwise I guess the next option is to have a lovely day with Ben by yourself finishing with an appointment with the vet. One thing I wouldn't try in the same position is continuing as you have been. Kids will disobey rules, even good kids can't be totally relied on around a difficult dog much less foster kids with behavioural issues. And living in a crate and/or outside if the dog has previously had a close relationship with you is no life for a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) You need to rehome Ben as soon as possible, before there are tears. And there will be. He is not happy in this environment, he is telling you at every opportunity. This is a very difficult environment for most dogs. And it is quite possible that some of the children have either hurt him, or tormented him. Either current or past ones Choose the home carefully, without children, and ensure the people are aware of his behaviour and aware of the temperament and needs of the GSD. There is a high possibility that with the stress of the move, he will be less predictable, and the new owners need to be aware of that. Your only other option is to keep him segregated from all the children all the time. And I think this is going to be impossible. And if you stop fostering children, he will still not be safe with your children. Otherwise, have him humanely pts. Do NOT send him to the pound or rescue. He will definitely bite someone if you do that. I don't believe this environment is suitable for any dog. Edited March 23, 2010 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I guess you either need to re-home Ben or stop Fostering - it's up to you to figure out what your priority is there. I'm not sure I could support re-homing a dog who is snapping at humans though unless he goes to a dog savy very balanced quiet and calm home where the behaviour may cease all together. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninahartland Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 What an awful predicament to be in I guess like others have said you have to decide whats more important. I don't think its very fair on the dog to keep him crated when he hasn't been used to it. Sounds like something may have happened over the years and he's telling you he's had enough. Maybe he needs to go to a child free home where he can relax a little. I know what its like having a house full of teens I had 5 of them...thankfully they've all left home now and it's peaceful again :D Good luck with whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 How awful :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Everyone has said it, Brooke. This is a very sad and difficult situation for you. Although I don't necessarily go along with the thought that Ben could be a danger in the future, I think the situation he is in is untenable for him. He isn't a human who can push annoying people away with their arms, he only has his mouth. A house where there are different people coming and going with regularity is very upsetting. I can see the changes in my own dogs when I have a few fosters coming and going and they are all dogs not little people who might be teasing or just upsetting by being there. What a challenge it must be for a dog to have disturbed young people coming and putting out all the vibes of their previous unhappy lives and "display some bizarre and very unpredictable behaviours". You and your husband sound wonderful with true and caring hearts, but as Jed says, there will be tears before too long. That said, it is all very well for us to give advice: I just want to add that I understand how heart breaking this must be for you and feel deeply for your predicament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Brooke you have a hard decision to make. If you want to continue foster care, you need to rehome Ben. Can you talk to his breeder? Is there a GSD rescue who might assist? Be careful vetting homes.... a 5 year old GSD is a prime candidate for acquistion by dodgy security types. He might find himself in PNG under pretty ordinary conditions. No flames from me. If you're going to continue fostering, I think that rehoming Ben is the right thing to do. If the right home cannot be found, give him his wings. :D Edited March 23, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogslife Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Rehome to a adult environment. It sounds like he is stressed but may be happy in an adult home. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ons Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 my heart goes out to you Brooke, what a difficult situation. But :D for you for fostering children. I'm thinking that as much as it may break your heart that Ben should be rehomed to a dog savvy home with adults only. It would be kinder to him. no flaming here, only lots of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfsie Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Everyone has said it, Brooke. This is a very sad and difficult situation for you. Although I don't necessarily go along with the thought that Ben could be a danger in the future, I think the situation he is in is untenable for him. He isn't a human who can push annoying people away with their arms, he only has his mouth. A house where there are different people coming and going with regularity is very upsetting. I can see the changes in my own dogs when I have a few fosters coming and going and they are all dogs not little people who might be teasing or just upsetting by being there. What a challenge it must be for a dog to have disturbed young people coming and putting out all the vibes of their previous unhappy lives and "display some bizarre and very unpredictable behaviours". You and your husband sound wonderful with true and caring hearts, but as Jed says, there will be tears before too long. That said, it is all very well for us to give advice: I just want to add that I understand how heart breaking this must be for you and feel deeply for your predicament. I could not have said it better myself.i feel for you, but choices have to made for safety of all. I feel incredibly sad for you. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Thank you all very much for your support. Jed there is absolutely no way I would send my lovely boy to a pound etc - any more than I would advertise him as FTGH on Petlink or some such! Our other dogs all cope beautifully as they have areas where they can be away from people when they want to be but as they are SWF's they are far happier being in our bedroom for large portions of the day than Ben would ever be! He is very intelligent, highly trainable and VERY active. I am going to contact the trainers at my GSD Obedience Club and see if any of them can assist in suggesting a knowledgeable home for him. I hate this but to stop helping these young people who need so much to feel loved and secure is even more heart-breaking! I wish there was an answer that would work for everyone concerned. :D He really is a great dog - I would miss him so much! ETA Thank you to those who have suggested other behaviorists and veterinary behaviorists. I will follow up on those but money is now becoming an issue sadly. Edited March 23, 2010 by Brooke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I think you're doing the right thing to look at what is best for your dog- hard as that is. I'm not sure what you have tried- another behaviourist may help, or they may not- behaviourists certainly aren't a cure all. Good luck with the decision you make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Thank you all very much for your support. Jed there is absolutely no way I would send my lovely boy to a pound etc - any more than I would advertise him as FTGH on Petlink or some such!Our other dogs all cope beautifully as they have areas where they can be away from people when they want to be but as they are SWF's they are far happier being in our bedroom for large portions of the day than Ben would ever be! He is very intelligent, highly trainable and VERY active. I am going to contact the trainers at my GSD Obedience Club and see if any of them can assist in suggesting a knowledgeable home for him. I hate this but to stop helping these young people who need so much to feel loved and secure is even more heart-breaking! I wish there was an answer that would work for everyone concerned. :D He really is a great dog - I would miss him so much! ETA Thank you to those who have suggested other behaviorists and veterinary behaviorists. I will follow up on those but money is now becoming an issue sadly. Oh Brooke, how difficult for you. Like everyone has said though, you are doing a great thing by fostering children, and by doing everything you can to give all your dogs a happy life. He sounds like a lovely dog and I'm sure there will be a suitable home out there for him. Irrespective of the money issues with more behaviourists, I think it might be kinder to Ben anyway to find him a home where he can have peace and quiet, and space to himself. Of course you will miss him but you will be continuing to give him the best life that you can. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti Posted March 24, 2010 Author Share Posted March 24, 2010 Thanks for the support and the kind words everyone! As we are running out of options, it seems more and more likely that my lovely boy may have to be PTS. I still have my fingers crossed that a GSD trainer will take him but the replies so far have not been encouraging. I feel like my heart is breaking as I watch him galloping about the backyard so full of life and so beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 So hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 (edited) Oops D P Edited March 24, 2010 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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