Allergy - My Poor Dog Is Getting Really Cranky!

[Crazy Daisy]

Is your dog still irritated badly by the affects of the skin condition?

This is a hard one to answer as my opinion has changed over the last week.

He doesn't actually seem itchy to me the more I watch him and I touch him all over and it doesn't seem to phase him at all. He is just getting snappy, but this could have nothing to do with his bad skin, I just want to rule everything out to try and assess exactly what is causing his unpredictable behaviour.

I don't really know how to explain his behaviour. He just seems over it all sometimes, but I don't know if it's his skin that is irritating him.. I think I jumped to the conclusion that it was to do with his hair loss.

I guess I'm just hoping that if I can work out his problem with his skin then maybe I can take that off his list as a reason for his crankyness. I'm sorry if that's a long winded response to a simple question and probably didn't even answer it. But I'm just a bit confused at the moment

[Erny]

He doesn't actually seem itchy to me the more I watch him and I touch him all over and it doesn't seem to phase him at all. He is just getting snappy, but this could have nothing to do with his bad skin, I just want to rule everything out to try and assess exactly what is causing his unpredictable behaviour.

I don't really know how to explain his behaviour. He just seems over it all sometimes, but I don't know if it's his skin that is irritating him.. I think I jumped to the conclusion that it was to do with his hair loss.

I guess I'm just hoping that if I can work out his problem with his skin then maybe I can take that off his list as a reason for his crankyness. I'm sorry if that's a long winded response to a simple question and probably didn't even answer it. But I'm just a bit confused at the moment

If it were me, and going by what you've said, the first step I would take would be to rule out hypothyroidism. And I wouldn't be satisfied with having the blood tests and analysis run through our Aussie laboratories, I'd be sending them to the USA via Dr. Jean Dodds. Cost would work out at approximately $210.00 (give or take, depending on exchange rates) including international courier fee.

[rajacadoo]

Erny,

Can I just correct you here :D .

I have just sent my dogs blood to Hemopet/Hemolife for thyroid testing with Dr Jean Dodds... For the Thyroid 5 panel, (I think thats what it is called, its on the website anyway...), it was $65 American dollars, which translated to about $120 Aussie dollars, all up. Of course you then have to add on the Vets consult fee, for taking the blood. I then went and posted the blood myself to America, and had the results back, (after a bit of a mix up), in about 10 days . No International Courier fee anymore .

[luvsdogs]

In your 1st post you said you fed your dog raw salmon. I have read on several occasions that raw salmon should not be fed to dogs because of flukes.

http://www.merckveterinarymanual.com/mvm/i...tm/bc/57305.htm

I don't think this is related to his allergies but thought it worth mentioning.

[centitout]

Allergies with kibble are generally put down to the preservatives used in the mix.

Says who?

Exactly. Never heard this and I've listened to 4 different Dermatologists speak on food allergies.

Agree with Zayder - the storage mites are problem.

its probably the fact that a lot of humans are allergic,sensitive to food colourings/preservatives,so would be a natural assumption that dogs are too.My aunt,after 3 years of developing extreme hives 2-3 times aweek,having been to numerous doctors/allergy specialists/testing-found she is allergic to yellow food colouring-and it was in 1/2 the stuff she ate.I have a friend who is allergic to certain preservatives as well,and that took years to diagnose.

Kids that are ADHD etc often re act to certain foods,and doctors will tell you to avoid those.

I broke out in severe psoriasis 3 years ago after a sore throat-was put on cortisone creams,coal tar creams,cortisone tablets-the works.Specialist said deal with it-nothing you can do except keep on with the cortisone you will have it for life .

9 mths i suffered with it,finally went to a naturapath(sort of thought they were all quacks) he took one look at me and said i had a crap diet full of chemicals and preservatives and that my body was overloaded.

Went organic for 3 weeks,took extra oils(9 capsules a day)stopped the cortisone,creams etc,used a stocking with rolled oats in it to clean,and the psoriasis went by the end of the 3rd week,never been back.

All you have to do is take a look at your shampoo bottle to see how many chemicals are in it-then add up all the product you use/eat in a day to see how many chemicals and preservatives are involved.No wonder that allergies in both humans/dogs and horses are on the rise.

[sas]

Centitout, I just think it's important we don't make assumptions with Humans Vs Dogs as they do work different in many cases.

[~Anne~]

Erny,

Can I just correct you here ;) .

I have just sent my dogs blood to Hemopet/Hemolife for thyroid testing with Dr Jean Dodds... For the Thyroid 5 panel, (I think thats what it is called, its on the website anyway...), it was $65 American dollars, which translated to about $120 Aussie dollars, all up. Of course you then have to add on the Vets consult fee, for taking the blood. I then went and posted the blood myself to America, and had the results back, (after a bit of a mix up), in about 10 days . No International Courier fee anymore :D .

Wow, you must have done it at a bad time. The last time I converted AUD - USD it was almost equal. ie $65 American would have equated to around $70 Australian. We are still currently sitting at around the 91c to the American dollar.

It can take up to 3 months before any improvement is noticed when an allergen is removed (ie food soruce or whatever). The last girl we had on an elim diet took about 2 month beofre we noticed a big improvement. I would say we saw small noticeable changes within about 3 weeks (edited - meant to weeks, not months)

Working out allergies takes patience and persistance.

Edited March 29, 2010 by ~Anne~

[stormie]

Centitout, I just think it's important we don't make assumptions with Humans Vs Dogs as they do work different in many cases.

Definitely. You only need to look at the way humans and dogs respond to the release of histamine to see how different we are.

I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying that one really should follow the directions of a dermatologist to get to the bottom of the cause of the allergies, rather than taking guesses.

I'm not pushing it because I work in the industry - I'm pushing it because of my own experience. I wasted so much time trying all these different diets, supplements, herbs etc etc. People told me to go raw, so I did. People also recommended packing him full of fish oil. So I did. I spent a fortune on all types of creams, lotions, shampoos, you name it, to try and get some relief.

Then I listened to the derm and followed their instructions and it turned out the raw food I was feeding him, he was allergic to. And the fish oil I was giving him, he was allergic to. And most of the shampoos I was using, he was allergic to.

So I'm not saying that a raw diet won't help or any other supplement won't help. I'm just saying that people should spend the time and effort to find out the causes of the allergies so you know what you're working with. I feed raw now, because I know what foods are 'safe' - I'm all for it - but again, only when you know for sure that the foods you're feeding and a contributing factor.

[Erny]

I then went and posted the blood myself to America. ... No International Courier fee anymore .

I'm not sure of this, but I think you might have been fortunate to get it through? My understanding is that it is illegal to send bloods via ordinary post and that to send it internationally you are supposed to make a declaration confirming it to be blood serum - this so that it does not get caught up with customs.

What method of post did you use? I'd be a bit concerned that there'd be times when it was held up, and what would become of the blood serum in the meantime and whether it would be 'testable' when it got there, or possibly give false negatives?? (Don't know much if anything about that side of things.)

[centitout]

I know how frustrating dogs with allergies can be,years ago my ex husband bought me a husky/german shepard pup. She started scratching at 4 mths,by 6 her skin was badly thickened and smelly.She was on AB'S,cortisone,elimination diets.

After 3 mths on rice,small amount of vegies and a maximum of 500 g of lamb mince a week,her skin cleared up marginally.She had the derm route-$1000 in intra dermal testing +all the other visits etc-came back allergic to ALL meat protein and most vegetable as well.The only relief she got was high dose cortisone,so when she started refusing the rice diet she was on,i had her euthanased at the age of 13 mths.

Not fair to the dog,and at that stage they didnt have the prescription diets they do now.

Edited March 29, 2010 by centitout

[sas]

I then went and posted the blood myself to America. ... No International Courier fee anymore .

I'm not sure of this, but I think you might have been fortunate to get it through? My understanding is that it is illegal to send bloods via ordinary post and that to send it internationally you are supposed to make a declaration confirming it to be blood serum - this so that it does not get caught up with customs.

What method of post did you use? I'd be a bit concerned that there'd be times when it was held up, and what would become of the blood serum in the meantime and whether it would be 'testable' when it got there, or possibly give false negatives?? (Don't know much if anything about that side of things.)

Yep, on the Jean Dodds site, if gives you the declaration to put on the outside of the packaging for Customs. Jean Dodds provides very strict instructions for how to the blood just be taken, spun and packaged etc.

[sas]

I know how frustrating dogs with allergies can be,years ago my ex husband bought me a husky/german shepard pup. She started scratching at 4 mths,by 6 her skin was badly thickened and smelly.She was on AB'S,cortisone,elimination diets.

After 3 mths on rice,small amount of vegies and a maximum of 500 g of lamb mince a week,her skin cleared up marginally.She had the derm route-$1000 in intra dermal testing +all the other visits etc-came back allergic to ALL meat protein and most vegetable as well.The only relief she got was high dose cortisone,so when she started refusing the rice diet she was on,i had her euthanased at the age of 13 mths.

Not fair to the dog,and at that stage they didnt have the prescription diets they do now.

I didn't know Intradermal did food allergic responses?

[zayda_asher]

Centitout, I just think it's important we don't make assumptions with Humans Vs Dogs as they do work different in many cases.

I also think its important not to assume that every bout of hives or skin condition is an allergy too. There are many many non-allergy related reasons for hives and other skin complaints and we are far too quick to label everything as an allergy. This is what gives rise to the claims that allergies were cured, or X miracle treatment worked for this allergy, etc. A true allergy is never cured, it cannot be done, they are only manged to prevent flare ups and treated when a flare does occur.

[zayda_asher]

I know how frustrating dogs with allergies can be,years ago my ex husband bought me a husky/german shepard pup. She started scratching at 4 mths,by 6 her skin was badly thickened and smelly.She was on AB'S,cortisone,elimination diets.

After 3 mths on rice,small amount of vegies and a maximum of 500 g of lamb mince a week,her skin cleared up marginally.She had the derm route-$1000 in intra dermal testing +all the other visits etc-came back allergic to ALL meat protein and most vegetable as well.The only relief she got was high dose cortisone,so when she started refusing the rice diet she was on,i had her euthanased at the age of 13 mths.

Not fair to the dog,and at that stage they didnt have the prescription diets they do now.

I didn't know Intradermal did food allergic responses?

They don't and never have.

Some vets do use the blood panels for food diagnosis, but this is not appropriate in dogs either, as they give a lot of false responses.

[sas]

Centitout, I just think it's important we don't make assumptions with Humans Vs Dogs as they do work different in many cases.

I also think its important not to assume that every bout of hives or skin condition is an allergy too. There are many many non-allergy related reasons for hives and other skin complaints and we are far too quick to label everything as an allergy. This is what gives rise to the claims that allergies were cured, or X miracle treatment worked for this allergy, etc. A true allergy is never cured, it cannot be done, they are only manged to prevent flare ups and treated when a flare does occur.

Absolutely!

[centitout]

I know how frustrating dogs with allergies can be,years ago my ex husband bought me a husky/german shepard pup. She started scratching at 4 mths,by 6 her skin was badly thickened and smelly.She was on AB'S,cortisone,elimination diets.

After 3 mths on rice,small amount of vegies and a maximum of 500 g of lamb mince a week,her skin cleared up marginally.She had the derm route-$1000 in intra dermal testing +all the other visits etc-came back allergic to ALL meat protein and most vegetable as well.The only relief she got was high dose cortisone,so when she started refusing the rice diet she was on,i had her euthanased at the age of 13 mths.

Not fair to the dog,and at that stage they didnt have the prescription diets they do now.

I didn't know Intradermal did food allergic responses?

Well,i assume it was intra dermal-she had biopsies taken from 12 places and that is what they told us??????She had 1 stitch in each place.

[centitout]

So if the tests she had were not reliable,why the hell did they do them?

Waste of $1000 + and she may have had an allergy to something that could have been managed?????

i know that allergies cant be cured-my daughter has developed coeliac disease at the age of 13,the slightest amount she has a reaction now which is becoming worse.

[zayda_asher]

So if the tests she had were not reliable,why the hell did they do them?

Waste of $1000 + and she may have had an allergy to something that could have been managed?????

i know that allergies cant be cured-my daughter has developed coeliac disease at the age of 13,the slightest amount she has a reaction now which is becoming worse.

Well,i assume it was intra dermal-she had biopsies taken from 12 places and that is what they told us??????She had 1 stitch in each place

If they did biopsies and she had stitches in then this wasn't blood panel, which is relatively new, and it doesn't sound like intradermal testing, unless this is a really old fashioned way of doing it. How many years ago was this? Here is a pic of a standard intradermal panel where they inject (not biopsy, I'm not sure how that would prove an allergic response) allergens and look for the response:

On this panel you can see the dog responded strongly to most antigens and the whole test area has swollen. Nothing is done to the patch after, except let it heal. Depending on the severity something like cortavance spray and resichlor may be applied to help heal and prevent secondary skin infection (which was done in this case).

The intradermal panel has been around for a fair time and is considered the gold standard for allergy testing.

Blood panels are efficacious for detecting certain responses, in certain conditions, but food responses is not one of them. Some vets (not derms I would hope) use them mistakenly. The only test for adverse food reactions in dogs is elimination diet. Food is one of the areas that is different between people and dogs: we understand more about the immune responses in people and CAN use blood tests and also direct prick testing (intradermal) to determine some food responses now. This is relatively new in humans and we can only do so because we understand the immune response better. In dogs, we don't have this knowledge so still have to rely on food elimination and rechallenge trials.

Edited March 30, 2010 by zayda_asher

[Crazy Daisy]

Bit of an update - Ruff has been on lamb, sweet potato and zucchini for the last six days and his skin hasn't gotten any worse I am going to a show this weekend and there are a few people there who live near me so I am going to ask which vets they go to as I am a bit frustrated with the last ones I've been to. I have also had three huge bills just come in So will have to wait till after easter for another vet trip.

I'll keep him on Lamb for a while as he doesn't seem to react on it. Even though I'm not sure what it is, not getting worse is a good sign.

[persephone]

not getting worse is a good sign.

yes it is!