Allergy - My Poor Dog Is Getting Really Cranky!

[16Paws]

:D

Yes I guess that would be pretty strange for a dog to be allergic to the actual dog.

In my defence, I've only dealt with people with allergies and when there is no underlying medical cause you have to start asking questions about absolutely everything to discover the triggers.

[Crazy Daisy]

Daisy- have you considered it may NOT be allergy related ?

Could it be (and I have no knowledge) some sort of endocrine problem?

Things on the skin often will start internally ...

Would that have shown up in the blood tests the vets did? Isn't endocrine to do with his thyroid? They tested that and it was fine.

[Crazy Daisy]

I have helped a couple of dogs with massive food allergies with a balanced BARF diet. One of the dogs had thick black skin on it's back with no fur at all and within 3 months there was no sign of any of the thickened skin and the fur grew back well. The other was constantly itchy and couldn't stop rubbing and scratching.

I add supplements to their diet as well like a good omega 3 oil blend and adding Pet Pep Up which is like a probiotic for the gut.

If you would like me to send you an outline of the diet, PM me with an email address and I can send it through.

I hope all goes well with everything.

Thanks Tyra I have pm'd you.

[persephone]

Don't know anything much about it, sorry- just seem to remember hormonal imbalances causing problems . :D Was just a thought.

[stormie]

Sounds like you have an atopic dog on your hands.

Get yourself to a Derm when you can. Don't play around with diet/supplements until you've done the food elimination diet. There's no point switching to raw if the meats you are feeding are something he's allergic to. I wasted a lot of money in fish oils in the beginning with Orbit, only to find out later on he was actually allergic to fish, so the oils were making him worse.

The Derm will start you on a process of elimination - the only way true atopy can be diagnosed. Generally they will rule out parasites, bacteria/fungi and then food as the cause. Once you've gone through that process they'll look at skin testing to see what your dog is allergic to. It's important to diagnose atopy first before skin testing, to know that the results are in fact true.

The problem with allergic dogs is that it can be food, contact, or inhaled or a combination of all of them. Pollens are not only inhaled, but also absorbed through the skin. And pollen can travel a long distance through the air, so even if you remove a suspect plant from your garden, your dog will still be inhaling/absorbing the pollen from the same plants all over your suburb.

Goodluck!!

[~Anne~]

I agree with what Sas said - re specialist.

It seems you haven't tried an elimination diet, but just listened to advice about faw/barf vs commercial maybe? One of the biggest flaws about the debate with raw vs commercail is that people say it is the preservatives and grains that are the cause of skin issues. This is wrong. The most common allergens are beef and chicken. Most commercial foods have beef and chiken prodcuts in them, even if it is only falvouring made from these things.

I had a rescue in who was allergic to beef, chicken and dairy. She also was allergic to dust mites and so her allergies were twofold of both dietary and atopic.

Your dog may or may not have a dietary related allergy, but you need to determine that by testing with an elimination diet.

[Nekhbet]

Get him off the commercial chicken! He's probably allergic to it! Also I agree stop the fish oil tablets, if you want to try something go for flax seed oil

You need to try a novel source of protein like lamb, white fish, game etc mixed with low allergen carbs like sweet potato, rice, etc. Vets All Natural make a skin support powder which with protexin in it to help with digestion, nutrition and balance.

As for an antihistamine I use Phenergen for Diesel as it made him a little sleepy as well and at least he got some rest. I stopped all chemicals and simply found the right food, only washed him when he got really stinky and now he shines. I think at least start with this type of diet and see a specialist to see what is actually going on.

[~Anne~]

Get him off the commercial chicken! He's probably allergic to it! Also I agree stop the fish oil tablets, if you want to try something go for flax seed oil

You need to try a novel source of protein like lamb, white fish, game etc mixed with low allergen carbs like sweet potato, rice, etc. Vets All Natural make a skin support powder which with protexin in it to help with digestion, nutrition and balance.

As for an antihistamine I use Phenergen for Diesel as it made him a little sleepy as well and at least he got some rest. I stopped all chemicals and simply found the right food, only washed him when he got really stinky and now he shines. I think at least start with this type of diet and see a specialist to see what is actually going on.

Lamb is also common in many dog foods, so it usually isn't an untried source. I would go for goat or camel or even kangaroo. I also wouldn't use rice as it is a grain, and sometimes grains can cause stomach upsets. On a last note, I have to disagree with the protexin too. An elimnation diet requires you to feed absolutely NOTHING else. No additives and no vitamins. Nothing bu the one simple protein source, and if need be for added bulk or energy, one simple carb soucrce.

[Crazy Daisy]

I have spoken to the vets this morning and they are having a look at who best to refer me to and will hopefully call back today.

I didn't realise that the chicken could be the problem. I might start him on roo while I'm waiting for the specialist.

Thanks for the help.

[~Anne~]

I have spoken to the vets this morning and they are having a look at who best to refer me to and will hopefully call back today.

I didn't realise that the chicken could be the problem. I might start him on roo while I'm waiting for the specialist.

Thanks for the help.

If you are going to trial an elim diet, you'll have to do it properly otherwise there is no point and you will not get a result.

The idea of an elimnation diet is to find a protein source that the dog has never ever eaten. Protein sources are known allergens in some dogs. It is thought that the dog develops an allergic response to proteins within the first year or two of its life. Puppies are best fed only one type of food for as long as possible because of this. Variety is not neccessarily needed in a dogs diet.

If you think that he has never ever had kangaroo (think of food you have fed him over various stages of his life - have you ever fed him 'kangaroo' flavoured commercial food for example, it may contain traces of kangaroo).

If you think that kangaroo is a 'novel' or never tried meat for him, then trial it. Keep in mind that kangaroo can be too rish for some dogs. I choose goats meat for my trials. It usualy is around $8 - $10 a kilo and you can get legs, bones, minced and diced meat. Many butchers in areas with high numbers of middle eastern and indian communities will sell goats meat.

You must not feed anything else, except for a carb source if you choose to. A cheap and easy carb source is sweet potato. This can be fed boiled.

Do not feed treats, do not feed kibble, do not give vitamins or additives. No fluids except for water. You must completely remove all possible food allergen sources for anything up to 12 weeks.

The only food that should pass your dog's lips is the chosen protein source, carb source and water. Medications are obviously ok.

If the dog's skin begins to settle, it can be considered that the allergy is food related. If it doesn't, you can't rule out a diet allergy because it may also be atopic. Many dogs suffer both kinds. Once the allergic reaction has cleared or settled, you recommence the normal diet, adding one item at a time for 7-14 days days and watching for a reaction. If there is no reaction you add the next and so on. If it is a diet allergy, you will notice a reaction when they are fed a protein source that is a culprit. You then cease feeding that food item immediately and determine the type of protein it is. This is done until you know all protein types and sources that affect the dog. You can then look at creating a diet plan that covers the nutritional requirements of a canine, and also meets the needs of your dog's allergies.

An elimination diet is only a temporary diet.

[Crazy Daisy]

Thanks Anne, he has never had anything with roo in it. The only treats I used to use for training were cabanossi and cheese, but I have since stopped this and he hasn't had any treats in about three weeks. I will have a look at our local butcher and see if he sells goat, if not he may be able to tell me who does.

Now I haven't used any flea treatment on any of my dogs for the last five weeks (the cat has had advantage but he doesn't have anything to do with Ruff) Can I use something on them as a preventative? Even something natural? I have heard if a dog is allergic to fleas it only has to be bitten once to react. My golden comes with me to show training every Thursday and we have quite a few shows coming up next month and I don't really want to risk him picking something up and bringing it home to Ruff. Maybe I should just treat the other two and leave Ruff?

[~Anne~]

Thanks Anne, he has never had anything with roo in it. The only treats I used to use for training were cabanossi and cheese, but I have since stopped this and he hasn't had any treats in about three weeks. I will have a look at our local butcher and see if he sells goat, if not he may be able to tell me who does.

Now I haven't used any flea treatment on any of my dogs for the last five weeks (the cat has had advantage but he doesn't have anything to do with Ruff) Can I use something on them as a preventative? Even something natural? I have heard if a dog is allergic to fleas it only has to be bitten once to react. My golden comes with me to show training every Thursday and we have quite a few shows coming up next month and I don't really want to risk him picking something up and bringing it home to Ruff. Maybe I should just treat the other two and leave Ruff?

Yes, when testing for a diet allergy, you can still medicate a dog and give preventatives as these are not proteins they ingest. I would continue to treat your dogs as you normally would for parasites.

The Vet can do skin testing to test your dog for atopic reactions.

[Crazy Daisy]

The last time I bought a frontline spray as it seemed a cheaper option when you have three dogs all different sizes. But I think it may be too harsh for Ruff's sensitive skin, should i put him back on a spot on treatment instead?

[~Anne~]

The last time I bought a frontline spray as it seemed a cheaper option when you have three dogs all different sizes. But I think it may be too harsh for Ruff's sensitive skin, should i put him back on a spot on treatment instead?

I would avoid any spot treatments actually. His skin will be extra sensitive. I would opt for oral preventatives personally. Speak with your Vet. I personally use a product called Sentinel Spectrum and have not had any adverse reactions with my dogs or the rescues. This isn't suitable for big flea infestations though. I have heard of lots of severe reactions to spot on treatments.

[Mas1981]

I would find out what his allergys are and then go to a homeopath to treat them, they have loads of success with allergys.

[Mas1981]

Sorry double post

Edited March 24, 2010 by Masons_mom

[Staff'n'Toller]

OT, I have a friend who is allergic to animal saliva. She comes up in terrible hives if she comes into contact with cat or dog spit. I thought she was joking the first time she mentioned it. I guess that's got to be better than being allergic to their fur when you're an animal lover!

I have that too with some dogs that come into the clinic occasionally, so I can see where you're coming from.

[SmoothieGirl]

Encouraged by a post Stormie made in response to my thread about an itchy dog I have taken my girl to see a Canine Dermatologist. We are three weeks into our six week elimination diet before starting allergy testing. Its challenging, because she is super itchy but can't really have any medication to alleviate it, but I'm thinking long term here. I just try to distract her as much as possible, wear her out at the park so she will sleep, rather than stay awake itching. She has lost a lot of coat, but I think its just a case of biting the bullet and doing this properly rather than just treating the symptoms.

Interestingly the Dermatologist said that contrary to popular belief the larger percentage of allergic reactions are not food related, but are in fact atopic. Also, there is now new evidence that dogs with contact allergies also have a tendency to lack something (??) in their skin to produce the natural skin barrier that most dogs have. The medical community often see this in humans with persistent atopic allergies as well apparently.

Personally, I really wouldn't worry about changing his diet until you have seen the Dermatologist, that way they can talk you through it and be part of the journey with you and support you through it. Bronte got to the point of breaking skin with her itching and biting last week and they have prescibed a specific cortesoid atopic cream to take the edge off, but I can only use it three days a week and must withhold it 10 days before the end of her food trial so as not to impact the allergy tests. Doing an elimination diet by myself would have left me without options and a very frustrated dog ripping herself to bits.

My girl is on venison and pumpkin, she was on sweet potato but stopped eating it and the specialist clinic said it was important that she got her carbs as they are brain food after all (and I'm not into dumb dogs). They were happy for me to change the carb, as opposed to her not eating any at all. They also have her on Vit B and Safflower Oil to balance out the diet.

I have made her training treats myself by slow cooking small bits of venison (yep, lots and lots of hand chopping) in the oven. This is a very time consuming process, but hey we are nutty for our dogs aren't we.

I hope you get referred to a specialist really soon and take some comfort in their extra expertise and understanding. PM me anytime if you just want to allergy vent

Edited March 24, 2010 by SmoothieGirl

[~Anne~]

Encouraged by a post Stormie made in response to my thread about an itchy dog I have taken my girl to see a Canine Dermatologist. We are three weeks into our six week elimination diet before starting allergy testing. Its challenging, because she is super itchy but can't really have any medication to alleviate it, but I'm thinking long term here. I just try to distract her as much as possible, wear her out at the park so she will sleep, rather than stay awake itching. She has lost a lot of coat, but I think its just a case of biting the bullet and doing this properly rather than just treating the symptoms.

Interestingly the Dermatologist said that contrary to popular belief the larger percentage of allergic reactions are not food related, but are in fact atopic. Also, there is now new evidence that dogs with contact allergies also have a tendency to lack something (??) in their skin to produce the natural skin barrier that most dogs have. The medical community often see this in humans with persistent atopic allergies as well apparently.

Personally, I really wouldn't worry about changing his diet until you have seen the Dermatologist, that way they can talk you through it and be part of the journey with you and support you through it. Bronte got to the point of breaking skin with her itching and biting last week and they have prescibed a specific cortesoid atopic cream to take the edge off, but I can only use it three days a week and must withhold it 10 days before the end of her food trial so as not to impact the allergy tests. Doing an elimination diet by myself would have left me without options and a very frustrated dog ripping herself to bits.

My girl is on venison and pumpkin, she was on sweet potato but stopped eating it and the specialist clinic said it was important that she got her carbs as they are brain food after all (and I'm not into dumb dogs). They were happy for me to change the carb, as opposed to her not eating any at all. They also have her on Vit B and Safflower Oil to balance out the diet.

I have made her training treats myself by slow cooking small bits of venison (yep, lots and lots of hand chopping) in the oven. This is a very time consuming process, but hey we are nutty for our dogs aren't we.

I hope you get referred to a specialist really soon and take some comfort in their extra expertise and understanding. PM me anytime if you just want to allergy vent

Great post - thanks for the info!

[Staranais]

Interestingly the Dermatologist said that contrary to popular belief the larger percentage of allergic reactions are not food related, but are in fact atopic.

Yes.

The veterinary dermatologist that lectured us at vet school reckoned that allergies occur in dogs, in descending order from very common to rare, were:

Flea saliva allergy

Atopy (allergy to inhaled or absorbed allergens)

Food allergy

Contact allergy

From what I've seen in practice so far, that definitely seems about right to me.

He also noted that dogs with one type of allergy were far more likely than your average dog to develop a second type as well.