Womans Arm Severed By Dog

[ILK]

I get 100% on a driving test, doesn't stop me from collecting speeding fines.

Knowing what is law and following the law are not the same thing.

Impulse control, your own belief of what you can and cant do are not dictated by the letter

but your own perception of boundaries.

Agree with this view....Laws only work on honest people :D

[WoofnHoof]

You wouldn't be teaching common sense you would be teaching basic dog behaviour and obedience, there will always be people who choose to remain ignorant but how many attacks are the result of wilful ignorance and how many are not?

[poodlefan]

Poodlefan , we have never agreed on everything since ive been on here but i commend you for your point of veiw and way of getting it across.

if only i could stop my blood boiling and defensiveness, maybee i could make some better points!

Very hard to be objective when the breed you love is under the gun Chris.. but facts carry more weight than passion, regardless of how much you care.

[Lally]

Here is the latest report in Melbourne's Herald-Sun.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/...x-1225844490946

[BJean]

It would be no different to administrating and implementing vehicle licensing laws, somehow that manages to work *most* of the time.

No you are being naive.

I get 100% on a driving test, doesn't stop me from collecting speeding fines.

Knowing what is law and following the law are not the same thing.

Impulse control, your own belief of what you can and cant do are not dictated by the letter

but your own perception of boundaries.

Following your reasoning there would be no need to license people to drive then? Awesome.

:D

step outside of the university

and see that licenses do not impact people's ultimate behaviour.

anyone can get a license,

it does not mean that everytime they drive their car they will drive like they did to get their license.

notwithstanding

a dog is not a car -

I own the dog

but it can be approached by any number of people who may not have a license to dog.

Dont forget that potentially dangerous items which are licensed, like guns

can only be handled or be in possession by

those that have a gun license.

So if you're walking your dog, an officer to approach - license please?

come on

Edited March 24, 2010 by lilli

[WoofnHoof]

Been outside the uni for a while now but thanks anyway

The obtaining of the license requires a basic understanding of the road rules, a basic understanding of dog behaviour would probably signficantly reduce dog attacks in the general public.

It has been stated by a number of people here that a lot of the general public do not have a basic understanding of dog behaviour, I dare say the trainers here would concur that a lot of people who go to them do so because they do not have this basic understanding. Clearly there is a need for people to learn these basic rules so why not make it compulsory as part of a licensing system. Heaps of people know how to drive before they get a license does this mean they don't need to demonstrate a good knowledge of the rules in order to get a license?

[Nekhbet]

Unanimous of Unanimous Posted at 5:07 AM Today

People People People please stop Blaming the breed,When will you ever Learn.. I know the Family Personally,& this dogs real owner is Kathy's son Vlado who is currently in Jail,I am not suprised by the attack,The dog was allways mis-treated & taught to attack,sad but I only speak the truth..

first thing I thought when I heard was that the dog probably was trained to bite. Doesnt surprise me at all if it was actually poorly trained, she tried to make it go into another room and the dog cracked it with a lethal backup of its poor training.

Idiots create dogs like this, not genetics. I have breeds known for their poosible aggression and it doesnt happen. Why? Because I have a clue and I'm responsible.

[~Anne~]

Here is the latest report in Melbourne's Herald-Sun.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/...x-1225844490946

From the update;

Rocky lashed out as Mrs Bonic tried to usher him into another room about 11am.

He began gnashing her right arm, so she put up her left arm to try to defend herself.

[poodlefan]

And now the facts start to emerge

He said the dog had never shown any sign of being vicious before yesterday's attack and was always secured in the backyard.

Wonder what that means.

Rocky lashed out as Mrs Bonic tried to usher him into another room about 11am.

Trigger event.

[BJean]

Been outside the uni for a while now but thanks anyway

The obtaining of the license requires a basic understanding of the road rules, a basic understanding of dog behaviour would probably signficantly reduce dog attacks in the general public.

It has been stated by a number of people here that a lot of the general public do not have a basic understanding of dog behaviour, I dare say the trainers here would concur that a lot of people who go to them do so because they do not have this basic understanding. Clearly there is a need for people to learn these basic rules so why not make it compulsory as part of a licensing system. Heaps of people know how to drive before they get a license does this mean they don't need to demonstrate a good knowledge of the rules in order to get a license?

Are you espousing that the general public undergo a dog license

or just anyone who lives in proximity to a dog?

Shall we all pass a dog test before we can walk into a park where there are dogs?

What about dog beaches - only licensees to habituate there too?

If we go away on holiday, must our friends/family who agree to look after the dog, also go and get a dog license?

How will we keep those that dont have a dog license away from the dangerous dog object?

We put guns in gunsafes, cars only by current licensed drivers ...

at what age do children need to get their own dog license before they can handle the family dog - 16, 18, 21?

In order for licensing to be implemented, there needs to be a system of rules about how and when the handling of the licensed object is legal.

Does equating dog ownership to owning inanimate objects like cars and guns, really seem a sensible, practical idea to you?

Edited March 24, 2010 by lilli

[~Anne~]

And now the facts start to emerge

He said the dog had never shown any sign of being vicious before yesterday's attack and was always secured in the backyard.

Wonder what that means.

Rocky lashed out as Mrs Bonic tried to usher him into another room about 11am.

Trigger event.

I was hoping someone with knowledge might shed some light on why they think this may have caused a reaction. Is it possible it was a dominance issue? She said "go" and he said "don't push me"? I know next to nix about behavior in this context.

It is also interesting the grandson had recently visited. If the feedback comment quoted above is correct, could the grandson have been stirring the dog up on his visit and trying to engage it in vicious play or reactions??

[poodlefan]

I was hoping someone with knowledge might shed some light on why they think this may have caused a reaction. Is it possible it was a dominance issue? She said "go" and he said "don't push me"? I know next to nix about behavior in this context.

It is also interesting the grandson had recently visited. If the feedback comment quoted above is correct, could the grandson have been stirring the dog up on his visit and trying to engage it in vicious play or reactions??

Speculation time.. and this IS pure speculation

Was Rocky an outside dog allowed inside when grandson was there and otherwise relegated to the backyard? Did he not want to go outside? Had he been kept on a chain? Chained dogs are massively over represented in serious attacks on people.

Had he been grabbed by the collar and harshly disciplined before.. did Mrs B try to take his collar and he reacted defensively? Did she not read the body language or dismiss a growl as the dog being "silly'.. Was he sore? Was he a young entire dominant male that wasn't going to be pushed around by someone of lesser physicality than the grandson?

Had Rocky been the subject of physical abuse? Wonder what grandson's "problems" were?

We'll probably never know and God knows dog owners are rarely effusive on the subject how they might have contributed to the tragedy. But what happened is the product of both genetics, environment and trigger behaviour. What I do know is that the description "family pet" covers a whole range of circumstances, some of which are not what you're average DOLer would consider meet that description.

Was this a dog that was socialised, trained and exercised regularly, encouraged to be affectionate and gentle with people and had a strong social bond with Mrs B.. we probably won't learn that either.

Edited March 24, 2010 by poodlefan

[WoofnHoof]

Been outside the uni for a while now but thanks anyway

The obtaining of the license requires a basic understanding of the road rules, a basic understanding of dog behaviour would probably signficantly reduce dog attacks in the general public.

It has been stated by a number of people here that a lot of the general public do not have a basic understanding of dog behaviour, I dare say the trainers here would concur that a lot of people who go to them do so because they do not have this basic understanding. Clearly there is a need for people to learn these basic rules so why not make it compulsory as part of a licensing system. Heaps of people know how to drive before they get a license does this mean they don't need to demonstrate a good knowledge of the rules in order to get a license?

Are you espousing that the general public undergo a dog license

or just anyone who lives in proximity to a dog?

Shall we all pass a dog test before we can walk into a park where there are dogs?

What about dog beaches - only licensees to habituate there too?

If we go away on holiday, must our friends/family who agree to look after the dog, also go and get a dog license?

How will we keep those that dont have a dog license away from the dangerous dog object?

We put guns in gunsafes, cars only by current licensed drivers ...

at what age do children need to get their own dog license before they can handle the family dog - 16, 18, 21?

In order for licensing to be implemented, there needs to be a system of rules about how and when the handling of the licensed object is legal.

Does equating dog ownership to owning inanimate objects like cars and guns, really seem a sensible, practical idea to you?

How far you want it to go is only limited by your imagination ;) Ideally a compulsory course in schools could be implemented and only actual owners of dogs would absolutely have to be licensed/do the course as they ultimately control where the dog goes and who it comes into contact with. If the dog's owner/handler has a basic idea of whether the dog is displaying signs of stress/agression etc at the park or whatever they can then remove the dog from the situation/stressor.

Initially it could be an optional course for non-dog owners until the school education filters through the general public and basic dog behaviour becomes a general knowledge similar to the way basic literacy and numeracy is fairly widespread in the population these days because of it's inclusion in the cirriculum.

[chrisjc]

getting any sort of license, would simply make the responsible people pay more money to do what they are allready doing, the backyard breeders who sell the poorly bred pups for high profits dont even register their dogs in the first place.

If you were the sort of person who had poorly restrained dogs, entire restricted breeds specifically for breeding would you register your dogs let alone get a license for them? i highly doubt it.

it sounds good in theory but what would you implement for to sum up what or how many different types of licenses there are?

As i own an APBT as usual i will use them as an example, I will allways defend my breed as i truly beleive that they show potential when trained and socialised properly to be in my eyes one of the best "multi purpose breed" bar none.

Do yourself a favour and look at the Dianne Jessup page listed earlier in this thread she does truly great things with these dogs.

However , as much as some owners of APBT push the boundries of the dogs and realy take hold of that aggresion potential and turn it towards people , the far other end of the scale is the owners that sugarcoat the past and make it a sound like a breed of angels. as in any other situation in life you look at the middle of the scale for real results i would like to say i am an owner that fits in here.[dont worry im getting there]

I am the first person to tell someone that the APBT as a breed is not for everyone, some can be hard headed and some have a very high DA tendency and need an experienced owner who knows how to face a potential issue head on.

when around other dogs even when socialised you need to be in 100% control at all times for your own dogs safety and others, rule no1 is "never trust a pitbull not to fight" you can train them to tolerate other dominant dogs but if a dog is to try to dominate APBT the pitbull will never say no to a fight. A late teens kid with some small man syndrome or a need to feel like an "Alpha" amongst peers is the very last person who should own one of these dogs but they are the ones they atract the most.

do you think that a breed that can infact be dominant and strong headed, which is no different than a GSD, Bull Mastiff, or a maremma, should be lumped in the same feild as say a Maltese?

it just couldnt work.

common sense is the solution and not everyone has that.

WHEN YOU BUY A DOG YOU RESEARCH ITS TRAITS AND HISTORY, for at the minimum a few months before you even should be setting foot in a breeders place.

do you think the type of owner who owns these types of dogs attacking people give a rats about research?

they more than likely hear throught the grapevine that so an so round the corners got a litter of "pitties with red noses" on the ground and they are ace gaurd dogs. when they get the dog and it shows no sign of being protective they get dissapointed and MAKE they dof agressive towards people , with a dog so willing to learn and please the owner they would punish and mistreat the dog until they get the results they want. License wouldnt work withthese people.

they are the same % of people that DONT register their cars let alone their dogs, so it simply wont effect them.

[sandgrubber]

What causes a fire. Is it the match? Or the accumulation of fuel and the weather conditions. .. just waiting for match.

[poodlefan]

What causes a fire. Is it the match? Or the accumulation of fuel and the weather conditions. .. just waiting for match.

All of the above. And that's the point - you need a certain combination of factors for a deadly result.

[megan_]

I was hoping someone with knowledge might shed some light on why they think this may have caused a reaction. Is it possible it was a dominance issue? She said "go" and he said "don't push me"? I know next to nix about behavior in this context.

It is also interesting the grandson had recently visited. If the feedback comment quoted above is correct, could the grandson have been stirring the dog up on his visit and trying to engage it in vicious play or reactions??

Speculation time.. and this IS pure speculation

Was Rocky an outside dog allowed inside when grandson was there and otherwise relegated to the backyard? Did he not want to go outside? Had he been kept on a chain? Chained dogs are massively over represented in serious attacks on people.

Had he been grabbed by the collar and harshly disciplined before.. did Mrs B try to take his collar and he reacted defensively? Did she not read the body language or dismiss a growl as the dog being "silly'.. Was he sore? Was he a young entire dominant male that wasn't going to be pushed around by someone of lesser physicality than the grandson?

Had Rocky been the subject of physical abuse? Wonder what grandson's "problems" were?

We'll probably never know and God knows dog owners are rarely effusive on the subject how they might have contributed to the tragedy. But what happened is the product of both genetics, environment and trigger behaviour. What I do know is that the description "family pet" covers a whole range of circumstances, some of which are not what you're average DOLer would consider meet that description.

Was this a dog that was socialised, trained and exercised regularly, encouraged to be affectionate and gentle with people and had a strong social bond with Mrs B.. we probably won't learn that either.

In The Age today, it said that while the dog belonged to the grandson, the dog had lived with this lady for 3 years. She lived in a flat.

I'm sorry but there is no reasonable defense for the dog doing what he did (which I know you're not going PF)- her arm is almost ripped off - hardly an appropriate level of defence against a 67 year old lady.

[chrisjc]

what causes a fire is the idiot holding the match. thought you woulda figured youd get that answer before you posted

[Crisovar]

I was hoping someone with knowledge might shed some light on why they think this may have caused a reaction. Is it possible it was a dominance issue? She said "go" and he said "don't push me"? I know next to nix about behavior in this context.

It is also interesting the grandson had recently visited. If the feedback comment quoted above is correct, could the grandson have been stirring the dog up on his visit and trying to engage it in vicious play or reactions??

Speculation time.. and this IS pure speculation

Was Rocky an outside dog allowed inside when grandson was there and otherwise relegated to the backyard? Did he not want to go outside? Had he been kept on a chain? Chained dogs are massively over represented in serious attacks on people.

Had he been grabbed by the collar and harshly disciplined before.. did Mrs B try to take his collar and he reacted defensively? Did she not read the body language or dismiss a growl as the dog being "silly'.. Was he sore? Was he a young entire dominant male that wasn't going to be pushed around by someone of lesser physicality than the grandson?

Had Rocky been the subject of physical abuse? Wonder what grandson's "problems" were?

We'll probably never know and God knows dog owners are rarely effusive on the subject how they might have contributed to the tragedy. But what happened is the product of both genetics, environment and trigger behaviour. What I do know is that the description "family pet" covers a whole range of circumstances, some of which are not what you're average DOLer would consider meet that description.

Was this a dog that was socialised, trained and exercised regularly, encouraged to be affectionate and gentle with people and had a strong social bond with Mrs B.. we probably won't learn that either.

In The Age today, it said that while the dog belonged to the grandson, the dog had lived with this lady for 3 years. She lived in a flat.

I'm sorry but there is no reasonable defense for the dog doing what he did (which I know you're not going PF)- her arm is almost ripped off - hardly an appropriate level of defence against a 67 year old lady.

You think a dog knows and understands this??

[~Anne~]

What causes a fire. Is it the match? Or the accumulation of fuel and the weather conditions. .. just waiting for match.

All of the above. And that's the point - you need a certain combination of factors for a deadly result.

Actually, I'll have to disagree and say that this is a bad analogy to use. Sometimes, there is no need for the match at all. Nature can create fires too.