Womans Arm Severed By Dog

[gila]

According to one of the neighbours who stopped the attack: "We don't know the reason why he did it, he was not an aggressive dog, he was good around people."

If my dog perpetuated such a severe attack on me or one of my family members I would be wanting a necropsy done on him. If I was confident that it was totally out of character for the dog, and not because of mistreatment etc. I would be looking for neurological causes.

[Jed]

Yes C & C from Wiki and bull breed breeders sites is "real research"..not

You tend to talk mainly about the APBT in the USA which has MUCH less "fighting line" blood than Australia. But you said you were involved with them so you should know this already right? You should already know that over 80% of the dogs (jeep, redboy etc) imported were from fighting lines right? You should also know that the CH and ROM APBT in the USA don't get their titles from doing triangles and stack in front of the judge right?

Nice propaganda skewed to the other side of the bull debate. Hats off to you.Your biased, unbalanced post to the "pro" side is just as bad as the "tabloid press". Why don't you link the press adds that address bull breed attacks? If the tabloids say it's a fox terrier you will of course agree that it is but when it's a bull breed you will question it. That's logic in a nutshell.

Yes, it is from bull breed sites, because they are the sites written by people with experience. Nothing from wiki, that's stuff people thought.

There are show CH pitbulls in USA (and Aust) and weight pull champs etc. Why not go and look at the APBT Aust site for their names and what they did? ROM is not for fighting.

Remember, those lines came from USA, did they go bad on the plane over? Did they come to Australia and suddenly become big bad fighters? I don't actually think the Jeep lines are human aggressive either? If someone told me in Aust they had Jeep lines, I'd want to see a certified pedigree, thanks. Lots of people talk the tough talk.

If the tabloids print a picture of a dog which attacked which looks 100% like a fox terrier, it's a fox terrier. If a fox terrier wins BOB and there is a picture of a fox terrier, it's a fox terrier. A brown dog can look like a pitbull, a fox terrier looks like a fox terrier. Unless you are blind. Then it feels like a fox terrier, unless it bites you, and then you are too busy feeling for all your fingers to feel what it is.

I researched all this information years ago, and nothing has changed. Except there are fewer pitbulls.

If you are too bog ignorant to see the truth when it is laid out in front of you, go on believing what you want. Just realise that you are wrong. Totally wrong. And bigoted. But if you do your research solely from the media, what can you expect?

Oh, and why don't you ask Mantis - her dog never did anything wrong. Or ask Tybrax, she had a pitbull, she didn't do anything wrong either.

dogbesotted

Sadly some owners of "macho" type dogs see them as an extension of their masculinity/toughness etc etc the more awsomely savage and uncontrolable the dog the bigger the swagger of such an owner... NO AMOUNT OF REGULATION LEGISLATION OR SUCH will ensure that dogs that are dangerous are not owned by such idiots.. that is why the current legislation will actually lead to increased incidents because the pitbull has been sent underground and therefore will be bred and owned only by those who should never be allowed near a dog let alone own one.

Yep, small XXXX, big dog.

And once there are no more pitbulls, these very people will do exactly the same to some other dog, or breed.

chrisjc

and you keep telling yourself your an expert. these events are always going to happen regardless of an APBT being responsible or it be another dog.

If you were referring to me in this post, I certainly don't tell myself I am an expert.

When the newspapers began to demonise pitbulls, I believed the hype. Why wouldn't I, I'd never seen a pitbull.

Others on this forum (some were owners and breeders of pitbulls) wanted to set me straight :D. I did some serious research, particularly on some German websites, and I was astounded by what I read. It was obvious even to me, that the whole deal with BSL stunk to high heaven. I did more research, got to know some pitbulls and owners, was asked to join the EDBA committe, and did some serious fighting against BSL.

I've seen a lot of pitbull blood, none of it from dog fights, and scrapped with the best of them against BSL. But I am far from an expert. And I never tell myself I am an expert, but I've done a lot of research and reading, seen the stats, read about the dog attacks, spoken to people involved, saved a lot of dogs who were for the chop, so I do have some knowledge.

And when someone writes twaddle, I will oppose it - every single time. I've been doing it for about 6 years now

And every time there is an attack, they trot Hugh out, so he can fume and splutter and spit on camera. "That wretched breed". He's a man who never lets the truth get in the way of a camera opportunity.

The media are on the war path again and sadly I think the Stafford will come off second best if another round of BSL hits us...

It's been worrying me for a couple of years. I t hought it was just paranoia. Originally "staffy" was never mentioned, only "pitbull", but "staffy" seems to creep in more and more.

Cosmolo

I am one who thinks that dog aggression IS a problem- i have had 2 dogs try to kill one of mine and we stepped in to save my dog- according to some people here that makes me an idiot for getting between 2 fighting dogs (we went from cutting off the airway to wheelbarrowing and waiting) Should i have just waited till they killed her? The owners of these dogs, purchased from a registered breeder as littermates- wanted social, dog tolerant dogs- surely breeders who have a breed more prone to ANY kind of aggression have the responsibility to tell people what the deal is and what kind of training/ socialisation is required.

I've broken up a few dogs fights - carefully, without being bitten, and I will continue to do it if necessary.. And yes, breeders should ensure that buyers understand EVERYTHING about the pups they buy, and how to raise them right. Unfortunately, not all breeders do, and not all buyers listen. Most "dog tolerant" dogs are raised to be so, and sometimes people think they are doing the right things, but they are not, so a problem occurs without the owners being aware of it.

There are a lot of aggressive cocker spaniels out there. People buy the cute fluffy pup which looks just like a teddy bear, fluffy ears, round dark eyes and all, and treats it like a teddy bear, so it grows up and is a problem. Because they overlooked the fact that cocker spaniels are a working breed, and need solid training and good leadership. And this has nothing to do with cocker rage. There are a few breeds who are similar.

I think dog aggression is a problem too. However, while governments and councils pat themselves on their collective backs because they have solved all dog agression problems by banning breeds, nothing will change. What councils have done is negated their civic responsibilities, and negated any chance of being sued by ratepayers, so there is no impetus for them to actually do anything about aggressive dogs.

And they don't.

Anne

Do the same to a Pitbull and what would happen? I won't even try to guess but we all know the results would be far different to what would happen with a more docile breed. You CAN NOT deny that breeding and genetics play a large role in the temperament of a dog.

There are sites on the internet about starved, beaten, abused, set on fire pitbulls, some of which had been fought, which bravely underwent all kinds of treatment, and licked the hands of the people treating them.

These dogs can be dog aggressive, and often are - but they are rarely human aggressive. Cross breds, yes, and some bred by idiots, yes, (but that applies to all breeds). I'll see if I can find a link for you. Quite heartbreaking really.

ilk

I'm sure most of us would have to agree that it is bazaar that a family pet would go into such a vicious attack mode.

Yet 90% of the dog attacks in Australia (and overseas) are by the family pet. This dog was the family pet.

Lally

If someone's lived with a dog for 3 years, and, apparently, they know each other reasonably well, why can't they identify the trigger? Is it due, then, to the very nature of the dog?

Most people can't explain why it happened. Sometimes they miss the triggers. Easy to miss with a dog you live with. A poster posted in the general forum recently - the dog they are discussing is going to attack someone soon. I can see the trigger, and so can other posters.

With this particular dog attack, I do wonder if the fact that the dog belongs to the grandson (?) who recently visited and left caused a problem? Dog very bonded to him, thought he was taking the dog with him, he left without the dog, the dog was very upset. Maybe the dog saw the grandson as his master, and didn't want to do what the grandmother wanted - growled, she chastised him - he attacked.

I have no idea what the reason for this attack was, but the above springs to mind.

Until some effort is made to identify why these attacks take place, instead of just knocking off the dog, no one will be any the wiser. When you read the full report of some attacks, the reason is obvious, but it's difficult to get the full report, and the people involved are often rightly hysterical, which makes it more difficult.

Woofnhoof

but how many attacks are the result of wilful ignorance and how many are not?

Most attacks are due to people not recognizing the triggers - which is ignorance. What lilli and Sandra say is correct. People often just do not realise that they are p%$sing their dogs off. Some think it is funny if the dog growls at them, or lunges at them. You tell people the dog is telling them to back off, they laugh.

You can't teach common sense. I went through this exercise with some incredibly nice people and a boy boxer. The husband was ticking the dog off very severely - the dog was telling him he was doing it. I explained what was going on. The husband ignored me, the dog bit him. THEN he learned. The wife listened and understood. It amazed me that the dog didn't take his face off, and if he had, he would have been pts. He had been warning this bloke for at least a year. No one was listening.

Now the problem is sorted.

And banning big dogs would look like this

German Shepherd

Belgian Shepherd

Rottweiler

Labrador

Golden Retriever

Boxer

Livestock Guarding Breeds

All Mastiffs

R. Ridgebacks

Newfoundlands

St Bernards

Irish Setter

English Setter

Clumber Spaniel

Malamute

Husky

Greyhound

Collie Roughs & Smooths

Saluki

Borzoi

Other coursing dogs over x cms tall

Pointers (English, German)

FC Retriever

Briard

Black Russian Terrier

Standard Schnauzer

Giant Schnauzer

Akita

Water Spaniels

And heaps I haven't included.

Weimaranas

[WoofnHoof]

Woofnhoof

but how many attacks are the result of wilful ignorance and how many are not?

Most attacks are due to people not recognizing the triggers - which is ignorance. What lilli and Sandra say is correct. People often just do not realise that they are p%$sing their dogs off. Some think it is funny if the dog growls at them, or lunges at them. You tell people the dog is telling them to back off, they laugh.

You can't teach common sense. I went through this exercise with some incredibly nice people and a boy boxer. The husband was ticking the dog off very severely - the dog was telling him he was doing it. I explained what was going on. The husband ignored me, the dog bit him. THEN he learned. The wife listened and understood. It amazed me that the dog didn't take his face off, and if he had, he would have been pts. He had been warning this bloke for at least a year. No one was listening.

IMO that is why compulsory animal behaviour should be taught in schools, while they are still young enough to learn and before they get bitten. The fact is though some adults actually do have the capacity to learn new things which is why I think adult education courses should also be implemented, if it only educates 50% of the population then it's still done more than all the other legislation put together

[GRLC]

and it begins again .......... BSL does not work . Show me the evidence this dog is what they are saying it is .

Normal everyday non educated people have no idea what breeds are what , and could never identify the difference between the bull breeds. we have these types of everyday people working for our councils and governments and their the ones who design these stupid laws .

[WreckitWhippet]

and it begins again .......... BSL does not work . Show me the evidence this dog is what they are saying it is .

Normal everyday non educated people have no idea what breeds are what , and could never identify the difference between the bull breeds. we have these types of everyday people working for our councils and governments and their the ones who design these stupid laws .

And if it is an Pit Bull cross, what then ?

[whippets]

ROM is not for fighting

A far as Jeep is concerned he sired "many" pit champions which is how the dog got the ROM.

Remember, those lines came from USA, did they go bad on the plane over? Did they come to Australia and suddenly become big bad fighters? I don't actually think the Jeep lines are human aggressive either? If someone told me in Aust they had Jeep lines, I'd want to see a certified pedigree, thanks. Lots of people talk the tough talk.

I'm pretty sure you'd get a certified pedigree from the underground breeders who register their dogs as crossbreds so they are still able to keep them. Who said they were human aggressive? they first person to mention it was Mantis. I'd suggest that a human aggressive bull breed/cross is also dog aggressive.

If the tabloids print a picture of a dog which attacked which looks 100% like a fox terrier, it's a fox terrier. If a fox terrier wins BOB and there is a picture of a fox terrier, it's a fox terrier. A brown dog can look like a pitbull, a fox terrier looks like a fox terrier. Unless you are blind. Then it feels like a fox terrier, unless it bites you, and then you are too busy feeling for all your fingers to feel what it is.

And if it looks like a bull breed/ or bull cross then you would probably argue that it wasn't. I'd be looking for more than fingers. Probably hand and arm as well. If it quacks like a duck......

I researched all this information years ago, and nothing has changed. Except there are fewer pitbulls.

Mine isn't so much research but knowing that my brothers 2 dogs that he had in the 1980's, were both jeep grandsons, double. Nice dogs but didn't trust either of them. Hell that was over 20 years ago and I can still remember details of imports PLUS fighting lines and non fighting lines which current APBT's owners know nothing about (well here anyway). They can't even acknowledge that dogs were bred seperate (non fighting lines) to fighting strains of Kato, redboy, jeep and rascal.

It seems you are also ignorant. Most of my posts refer to bull breeds and crosses yet you automatically think of the APBT. Seems like you are the one labelling.

Instead of addressing or giving an alternative view to my initial posts of:

"I disagree TOTALLY. These dogs have the instinct. They definately need level headed people who can train and handle these dog to curb that fighting instinct.

APBT's and the like are not for your average Joe dog owner. I don't need any studies to work that one out."

or

"I would akin them to owning a loaded gun. In the right hands they can be safe (with proper training) and not many "average Joe" people would even fit that bill. In the wrong hands.....well we've seen what happens time and time again.

and

"For example, the APBT Australia club site specifically inform that they were initially bred for fighting and it's a fact that can't be ignored. They also mention that potential owners should be aware of the potential inherited characteristics of this breed."

Typical of these threads instead of addressing the points presented some people resort to personal attacks. I don't agree with 3/4 of what has been said in this thread. So what, that is my opinion. My opinion is not based by the media, but through of my own experience, my families experience and my brothers experience with bull breeds.

Yes, it is possible, I could be bitten by a cocker, papillion, pug or even my own breed a whippet. I'm pretty bloody sure I'd walk away with my arm still attatched to my shoulder.

So......when someone else shows that they can google pit sites and be able to use the Copy & Paste feature on their computer (bravo to you) I also feel inclined to reply to their "twaddle" as you call it. Hell bugger all of that is you own words. You just plagiarise someone elses opinion. So don't go taking any credit for what other people have applauded you for... whatsoever.

[GRLC]

My point is theres no way for them to prove it's either breed without some type of testing and unless they have proof, they should not be making assumptions. It just adds more fuel to the BSL fire , 1 of the original articles i read regarding this story said "ambulance officers believe the dog is a pitbull x" !

I just wonder how many attacks have been documented as being bull breed attacks when in fact those dogs are a mixture of breeds .

[WreckitWhippet]

We heard owners state the breed in past incidents and people still want to argue that it's a media beat up and it couldn't possibly be

[Diva]

Given this was a family dog and members of the family were present, my expectation would be that they self-identified the dog as the breed mix that was stated in the later reports. Might not be what the dog was, but I'm thinking that is what the owners understood it was. This is not some random dog roaming the street.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Diva

[HugUrPup]

I'd love to see people having to apply for licenses to own Am staff/Pit bulls.

I don't believe in BSL that bans breeds, but I do believe the legislation should involve stringent rules and regulations when it comes to owning certain breeds.

All breeds can get pissed off an attack, but breeds like these have the ability to rip your arm and face off in 2 minutes.. not a breed to be owned by just anyone IMO.

[Tapferhund]

"Sounds like a shark attack not a dog attack."

That's exactly what the woman's neighbours said when they witnessed the attack after they broke in to her house to rescue her.

Dreadful thing to happen to anyone......but I fear this will be the "last" straw for the State Govt and ALL dog owners, regardless of breed, will be suffering the consequences of this attack through more and more legislation.

[GRLC]

"

Dreadful thing to happen to anyone......but I fear this will be the "last" straw for the State Govt and ALL dog owners, regardless of breed, will be suffering the consequences of this attack through more and more legislation.

Absolutely we are all doomed no matter what we do !

[Adnil444]

getting any sort of license, would simply make the responsible people pay more money to do what they are allready doing, the backyard breeders who sell the poorly bred pups for high profits dont even register their dogs in the first place.

If you were the sort of person who had poorly restrained dogs, entire restricted breeds specifically for breeding would you register your dogs let alone get a license for them? i highly doubt it.

it sounds good in theory but what would you implement for to sum up what or how many different types of licenses there are?

As i own an APBT as usual i will use them as an example, I will allways defend my breed as i truly beleive that they show potential when trained and socialised properly to be in my eyes one of the best "multi purpose breed" bar none.

Do yourself a favour and look at the Dianne Jessup page listed earlier in this thread she does truly great things with these dogs.

However , as much as some owners of APBT push the boundries of the dogs and realy take hold of that aggresion potential and turn it towards people , the far other end of the scale is the owners that sugarcoat the past and make it a sound like a breed of angels. as in any other situation in life you look at the middle of the scale for real results i would like to say i am an owner that fits in here.[dont worry im getting there]

I am the first person to tell someone that the APBT as a breed is not for everyone, some can be hard headed and some have a very high DA tendency and need an experienced owner who knows how to face a potential issue head on.

when around other dogs even when socialised you need to be in 100% control at all times for your own dogs safety and others, rule no1 is "never trust a pitbull not to fight" you can train them to tolerate other dominant dogs but if a dog is to try to dominate APBT the pitbull will never say no to a fight. A late teens kid with some small man syndrome or a need to feel like an "Alpha" amongst peers is the very last person who should own one of these dogs but they are the ones they atract the most.

do you think that a breed that can infact be dominant and strong headed, which is no different than a GSD, Bull Mastiff, or a maremma, should be lumped in the same feild as say a Maltese?

it just couldnt work.

common sense is the solution and not everyone has that.

WHEN YOU BUY A DOG YOU RESEARCH ITS TRAITS AND HISTORY, for at the minimum a few months before you even should be setting foot in a breeders place.

do you think the type of owner who owns these types of dogs attacking people give a rats about research?

they more than likely hear throught the grapevine that so an so round the corners got a litter of "pitties with red noses" on the ground and they are ace gaurd dogs. when they get the dog and it shows no sign of being protective they get dissapointed and MAKE they dof agressive towards people , with a dog so willing to learn and please the owner they would punish and mistreat the dog until they get the results they want. License wouldnt work withthese people.

they are the same % of people that DONT register their cars let alone their dogs, so it simply wont effect them.

Great post Chrisjc - After being a believer in BSL, I'm really starting to see the other side and that banning something - be it dogs, drugs etc doesn't stop the ones that really want that product to get it. Perhaps if BSL was scrapped, the people that should least have a pitbull would stop - can't be cool or whatever if everyone can get them, no longer illegal to have one. I don't know the answer to this. I truly believe education can help, but the morons of society will always do as they please and won't listen.

To me, everyone on these posts has a definite interest in their chosen breed and for all dogs in general - we wouldn't be on these sites if we didn't love our dogs and want to do the best for and by them. We are (I hope I'm correct) responsible dog owners who do the hard yards - training, socialising, researching before purchasing (or rescuing) etc to ensure that our dogs are safe, happy members of the community.

No one should get a dog without doing and continue to do the right things by them. But of course we all know that there are thousands of dogs out there, locked up, chained up etc, no socialising with other dogs and/or humans, mistreated, etc and this will ever be and unfortunately some of these dogs will be involved in an attack - child wanders into yard, family member approaches chained up dog etc etc. Rotties have had their bad press time (as have dobes, gsd and others). I have yet to come across a "bad" rottie, so there is hope that eventually the APBT will get it's rightful place in society, as you say, with people that understand the breed, are watchful and in control, that way the dog has a great life, you the owner have a great dog and attacks are no longer an issue. But how do you stop the morons and the bybs - that is going to be one major challenge - like how do you stop the drug trade? I worked once for a retired high court judge who dealt with this side of the law for many years. He was a total convert for legalising heroin - you take out the black market, the drug dealers etc and therefore crime will come down. Many doctors, lawyers, police etc were also in favour of this, however it is against our nature to let something in legally where in the wrong hands it has the potential to be fatal or at least maim.

Just my thoughts anyway.

[Souff]

The breed or crosses of breed is irrelevant.

A dog with this type of temperament has no place in society.

Dogs are supposed to be mans (and womans) best friend ..... not be there to rip your bloody arms off!

What set it off is also irrelevent.

The dog is gone, and another person is badly mauled.

And somewhere in Victoria or wherever today, somebody bought another dog that will end up like this one.

Can somebody shine a big bright light on the morons who believe dogs with this temperament have a place in our society; perhaps put them in a situation where they end up with the horrific injuries that this woman has copped.

Souff

[huski]

Being dog aggressive doesn't make them people aggressive?

ah yeah o.k....... and how many people get frenzied on when trying to break dog fights up? It wasn't to long ago when a Bull breed dog turned on a man that was trying to pull it away from his little JRT. Probably just before christmas or thereabouts. Same thing happened with a man with his 2 maltese (I think, but they were a small breed). He got mauled trying to get the bull breed off his pets.

Dog aggression and people aggression are NOT the same thing. What triggers a DA dog is not the same as what triggers a PA dog.

I own a DA dog and you could not find a dog who is more calm and gentle around people, there is not an ounce of people aggression in him.

These arguments always frustrate me. On one hand we push the fact that if you choose a purebred dog you KNOW what its temperament will be like. You KNOW what its characteristics will be like. It is a genetic line we follow, we breed for temperament yadda, yadda and now suddenly we say "Hell no, a dog isn't born aggressive, it is the upbringing that makes it aggressive!"

This. Is. Total. CRAP!

A Pug is NOT aggressive. It is born that way. It is genetics. It has NOTHING to do with the upbringing. If I can say that a dog is born without aggression, why then can't it be said that some dogs are born with aggression?

Sure, the Pitbull may be maligned, but the argument that a dog is created and not born, is dumb.

It's dumb to argue that the way we raise, socialise and train our dogs has no impact on their temperament.

Considering that the vast majority of aggression in dogs is fear based, how many dogs do you think are simply born that way? Are you saying that even if a pug was mistreated from eight weeks of age or younger, that they would still remain free of any behaviourial issues?

I'm not trying to say all dogs are created equal - we all know that certain types of dogs are better suited to certain types of people. BUT - aggressive dogs can be and are created, every day. It's "total crap" to assume most aggressive dogs are just born that way and believing so does nothing to promote responsible ownership and serves only to lull people into a false sense of security - buy a certain breed of dog and it will just magically grow into the perfect pet, regardless of how you raise, socialise or train it. That. Is. Total. CRAP!

Edited March 24, 2010 by huski

[Souff]

Being dog aggressive doesn't make them people aggressive?

ah yeah o.k....... and how many people get frenzied on when trying to break dog fights up? It wasn't to long ago when a Bull breed dog turned on a man that was trying to pull it away from his little JRT. Probably just before christmas or thereabouts. Same thing happened with a man with his 2 maltese (I think, but they were a small breed). He got mauled trying to get the bull breed off his pets.

Dog aggression and people aggression are NOT the same thing. What triggers a DA dog is not the same as what triggers a PA dog.

I own a DA dog and you could not find a dog who is more calm and gentle around people, there is not an ounce of people aggression in him.

These arguments always frustrate me. On one hand we push the fact that if you choose a purebred dog you KNOW what its temperament will be like. You KNOW what its characteristics will be like. It is a genetic line we follow, we breed for temperament yadda, yadda and now suddenly we say "Hell no, a dog isn't born aggressive, it is the upbringing that makes it aggressive!"

This. Is. Total. CRAP!

A Pug is NOT aggressive. It is born that way. It is genetics. It has NOTHING to do with the upbringing. If I can say that a dog is born without aggression, why then can't it be said that some dogs are born with aggression?

Sure, the Pitbull may be maligned, but the argument that a dog is created and not born, is dumb.

It's dumb to argue that the way we raise, socialise and train our dogs has no impact on their temperament.

Considering that the vast majority of aggression in dogs is fear based, how many dogs do you think are simply born that way? Are you saying that even if a pug was mistreated from eight weeks of age or younger, that they would still remain free of any behaviourial issues?

I'm not trying to say all dogs are created equal - we all know that certain types of dogs are better suited to certain types of people. BUT - aggressive dogs can be and are created, every day. It's "total crap" to assume most aggressive dogs are just born that way and believing so does nothing to promote responsible ownership and serves only to lull people into a false sense of security - buy a certain breed of dog and it will just magically grow into the perfect pet, irregardless of how you raise, socialise or train it. That. Is. Total. CRAP!

Ah yes, beware the aggressive pug.

Souff

[Souff]

Hey Poodlefan,

have any of those ElSHonko Kennels dogs been returned yet ..... ?

just wondering

Souff

[Jed]

Souff

Can somebody shine a big bright light on the morons who believe dogs with this temperament have a place in our society; perhaps put them in a situation where they end up with the horrific injuries that this woman has copped

Ah,but the problem is they don't know the dogs have "this temperament".

[Bindii]

irregardless

Is not a word.

But it is a scientific fact that a dog's temperament is mostly genetic... I didn't know that there was much of a question about it. Most vets/breeders/researchers agree on this.

No it may not be in all lines of a particular breed, but temperament is mostly determined by that of the dogs in it's pedigree. Whether that be shy, aggressive, friendly etc.

[Souff]

Souff

Can somebody shine a big bright light on the morons who believe dogs with this temperament have a place in our society; perhaps put them in a situation where they end up with the horrific injuries that this woman has copped

Ah,but the problem is they don't know the dogs have "this temperament".

Well this woman knows now. And the parents of the little girl in Britain hopefully have now realised what some animals are capable of doing.

Is this what it takes to make people realise that a dog is not fit to be kept as a pet?

Souff