Womans Arm Severed By Dog

[Elfin]

My chihuahua is agressive, but most of the time nobody cares because if he's not in anyone's face he's not a danger to anyone, the only way he might succeed in severing my arm was if I had died already and he'd had a week or so to gnaw at it.

My 45kg Deerhound needed extensive surgery to reattach his thigh muscle after an aggressive 5kg Jack Russell grabbed hold of him. Four years later, he still has a 20cm scar down his leg, and some muscle weakness there.

I don't thinks that's very funny.

An aggressive dog is an aggressive dog. I don't care about it's size.

And for the record, my dog never even TOUCHED the JRT as it attacked him. He was running away from the little turd and it latched onto my boy's thigh.

[WoofnHoof]

Many dogs have the potential to be dangerous and when large and powerful breeds are deliberately crossed with the intention of breeding dogs that can take a person's arms off, or are trained to be aggressive towards humans and other animals, then I don't want to be aligned with the people responsible. It is a perverse form of cruelty to animals and the people who are responsible are as guilty as the dog itself when an attack like this happens.

Souff

Even more so IMO, humans have bred a dog which has the morphology which allows it to bring down a large animal on its own. The gray wolf or the village dog or whatever form of ancestral canine you prefer never had this ability, they hunted large animals in packs using slashing wounds and hounding the animal until it bled to death. Those dogs of the past would never have even tried taking down a full grown bovine, it was humans who developed the jaw and the front end of these animals which allowed them to tackle the job.

My chihuahua is agressive, but most of the time nobody cares because if he's not in anyone's face he's not a danger to anyone, the only way he might succeed in severing my arm was if I had died already and he'd had a week or so to gnaw at it.

So what we have is a combination of powerful animals and humans who no longer use them for work and therefore have little understanding of the proper management of powerful animals, and the reasons for it. Therefore controls over ownership and breeding are a logical step to take IMO.

This is the attitude that angers me, total double standards. It's OK if a little dog is an aggressive little shit, we won't try & get help for it, it's only tiny & can't cause harm, except if it attacks a baby or small child.

One of my sisters has an aggressive little shit of a Chi, it will bite anyone who gets near it except her, she also laughs about it, saying he thinks he's a big dog. I have tried trying to change it's behaviour, but my sister starts yelling at me saying I am scaring it, sure just trying to talk to it & pat it must be scary for this little bastard, it has bitten me many times. She has two daughters who are late teens & early twenties, soon they will possibly be getting married & having children, I've told both girls that when they have children, NEVER to take them to their mothers house, unless the dog is confined & can't get near their babies, they both agree.

Of course it's not ok if a little dog is an agressive little shit but it's not exactly a tragedy waiting to happen is it? My dog would have to have access to a baby or small child to bite it and he doesn't so it really makes no difference to anyone else if he is agressive or not.

There is going to be a difference between the management and potential of a large animal versus a small animal, it's common sense it's got nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with the practical implications of large dog vs small dog irrespective of breed.

[WreckitWhippet]

Hey anyone notice that no DOL members dogs have made it on the news over their dogs seriously injuring them or anyone else?

Gee I wonder if there is a relationship between people who educate themselves when it comes to dogs and having less occurrences of dogs ripping faces off.

Maybe not , but I've read some pretty idiotic things in my time on here, when it comes to dog ownership. Some have been down right stupid, dangerous and I think quite a few people here are damn lucky they have not made the news. It's been down to the power of good luck, more so than good management.

I consider myself to be an educated and responsible dog owner, I carefully manage my pack and my mind is open when it comes to learning more. Even so, we've had some near misses in this house. One involved my child and dog who was subsequently PTS, we were lucky that my daughter didn't become another bite stat. I watch the dogs and kids like a hawk, I can read a dog and to this day I still don't know what happened.

Out of curiosity SBT123, were you watching what happened just prior to the attack or was it out of the blue? The reason I ask is because and I have mentioned this before on DOL, when I was a small child my parents Irish Setter bit my face. I rode on his back he followed me everywhere. The family were laying in the loungeroom watching tv, I was laying on the floor with the dog. He suddenly turned and bit my eyebrow (drew blood bigtime) as far as mum and dad were concerned, but I had been secretly blowing in his ear. He must of given me at least three warnings before he actually bit. My parents were talking about pts until I told them what actually happened.

It was out of the blue, from a dog who had not displayed any of the typical warning signs. My daughter has a huge amount of respect for the dogs, she doesn't ride them, lay on them as pillows, harrass them, poke, prod or tease.

The dog was laying on the floor less than three feet away from me, while I was washing up. I've been over and over what could have triggered it. There was no food around, the dogs are not fed in the kitchen or allowed to beg etc. My daughter walked past the dog ( didn't step on him or his tail ) and he lashed out at her. The saving grace was that as he lashed out, he spun to get up and he knocked her over.

That left me in a state of disbelief, firstly that the dog could have done such a thing and secondly that I missed the warning signs.

For the record, the dog was not a bull breed or cross.

[HugUrPup]

I don't care if a dog is a crossbreed, or a purebreed, or what size it is. Training, & learning about dog behaviour is the only answer. Over my many years, (being an old bugger), I have had many dogs, even bred & showed dogs for twenty odd years, I treat all of them the same, I am pack leader, I will give you lots of love & take care of you, but you will behave & respect me & other humans.

Then YOU would be a candidate to own what ever dog you want if policies were brought in to ensure proper ownership of dogs.

Rescue groups work hard to carefully match up dogs with owners.. but any Jo Blow can go and buy Shar Pei because they look cute and cuddly as pups. I dare say that dog attacks wouldn't be the only problem something like this would reduce.. there would probably be a lot less homeless dogs also.

Edited March 25, 2010 by puggerup

[WoofnHoof]

My chihuahua is agressive, but most of the time nobody cares because if he's not in anyone's face he's not a danger to anyone, the only way he might succeed in severing my arm was if I had died already and he'd had a week or so to gnaw at it.

My 45kg Deerhound needed extensive surgery to reattach his thigh muscle after an aggressive 5kg Jack Russell grabbed hold of him. Four years later, he still has a 20cm scar down his leg, and some muscle weakness there.

I don't thinks that's very funny.

An aggressive dog is an aggressive dog. I don't care about it's size.

And for the record, my dog never even TOUCHED the JRT as it attacked him. He was running away from the little turd and it latched onto my boy's thigh.

We are talking about dogs with potential to sever a human arm, a chi cannot sever a human arm no matter how hard he tries, I don't know about JRTs from what I can tell their jaw structure is entirely different to that of a chi though.

[mantis]

I don't care if a dog is a crossbreed, or a purebreed, or what size it is. Training, & learning about dog behaviour is the only answer. Over my many years, (being an old bugger), I have had many dogs, even bred & showed dogs for twenty odd years, I treat all of them the same, I am pack leader, I will give you lots of love & take care of you, but you will behave & respect me & other humans.

Then YOU would be a candidate to own what ever dog you want if policies were brought in to ensure proper ownership of dogs.

Rescue groups work hard to carefully match up dogs with owners.. but any Jo Blow and go and buy Shar Pei because they look cute and cuddly as pups. I dare say that dog attacks wouldn't be the only problem something like this would solve.. there would probably be a lot less homeless dogs also.

The RSPCA & the Government, need to stop BYB's & Pet Shops selling dogs, but they don't want to, it's easier to ban breeds of dogs, less effort.

[Jed]

My vet reckons if chihuahua's were the size of rottweilers, they would have wiped out the human race by now.

Too many badly bred ones with no respect for their owners. A good one is totally delightful, a bad one IS a turd.

I went to my neighbours one night. While watching the ACD, the bloody chihuahua jumped up and attached himself to my finger, grinding his needle like teeth to the bone.

People with toy dogs think this is funny.

Dogs like this need a bloody good kick before the nonsense begins.

And most of those attacking dogs wouldn't have done it, it they had been scruffed as pups, or someone who knew what they were doing gave them a damn good kick somewhere along the line.

Val Bonney believes that one reason dog attacks have increased is because of the increase in the use of positive training.

[HugUrPup]

An aggressive dog is an aggressive dog. I don't care about it's size.

And for the record, my dog never even TOUCHED the JRT as it attacked him. He was running away from the little turd and it latched onto my boy's thigh.

I am actually more scared of a JRT than a APBT

[Elfin]

My chihuahua is agressive, but most of the time nobody cares because if he's not in anyone's face he's not a danger to anyone, the only way he might succeed in severing my arm was if I had died already and he'd had a week or so to gnaw at it.

My 45kg Deerhound needed extensive surgery to reattach his thigh muscle after an aggressive 5kg Jack Russell grabbed hold of him. Four years later, he still has a 20cm scar down his leg, and some muscle weakness there.

I don't thinks that's very funny.

An aggressive dog is an aggressive dog. I don't care about it's size.

And for the record, my dog never even TOUCHED the JRT as it attacked him. He was running away from the little turd and it latched onto my boy's thigh.

We are talking about dogs with potential to sever a human arm, a chi cannot sever a human arm no matter how hard he tries, I don't know about JRTs from what I can tell their jaw structure is entirely different to that of a chi though.

You inferred that a small dog could not be a danger to anyone. That is just not true.

Size has nothing to do with it. What if the JRT my dog met with was actually HA rather than DA, and it had been a toddler running across the park as my dog was?

Another example: my brother has a large scar over his eye from where he was bitten as a child by a neighbour's tiny Silky Terrier. The doctor's at the time said he was lucky not to lose his eye.

Aggressive dogs are aggressive dogs. No matter what size.

[ILK]

My chihuahua is agressive, but most of the time nobody cares because if he's not in anyone's face he's not a danger to anyone, the only way he might succeed in severing my arm was if I had died already and he'd had a week or so to gnaw at it.

My 45kg Deerhound needed extensive surgery to reattach his thigh muscle after an aggressive 5kg Jack Russell grabbed hold of him. Four years later, he still has a 20cm scar down his leg, and some muscle weakness there.

I don't thinks that's very funny.

An aggressive dog is an aggressive dog. I don't care about it's size.

And for the record, my dog never even TOUCHED the JRT as it attacked him. He was running away from the little turd and it latched onto my boy's thigh.

Being dog aggressive is very different to what we are talking about here, which is attacking a human.

[WreckitWhippet]

I don't care if a dog is a crossbreed, or a purebreed, or what size it is. Training, & learning about dog behaviour is the only answer. Over my many years, (being an old bugger), I have had many dogs, even bred & showed dogs for twenty odd years, I treat all of them the same, I am pack leader, I will give you lots of love & take care of you, but you will behave & respect me & other humans.

Then YOU would be a candidate to own what ever dog you want if policies were brought in to ensure proper ownership of dogs.

Rescue groups work hard to carefully match up dogs with owners.. but any Jo Blow can go and buy Shar Pei because they look cute and cuddly as pups. I dare say that dog attacks wouldn't be the only problem something like this would reduce.. there would probably be a lot less homeless dogs also.

Some do, many don't and you should be careful not to make generalisations. It's the same for breeders, the ethical breeder care, others are just in it for the money or don't know any better.

[mantis]

Many dogs have the potential to be dangerous and when large and powerful breeds are deliberately crossed with the intention of breeding dogs that can take a person's arms off, or are trained to be aggressive towards humans and other animals, then I don't want to be aligned with the people responsible. It is a perverse form of cruelty to animals and the people who are responsible are as guilty as the dog itself when an attack like this happens.

Souff

Even more so IMO, humans have bred a dog which has the morphology which allows it to bring down a large animal on its own. The gray wolf or the village dog or whatever form of ancestral canine you prefer never had this ability, they hunted large animals in packs using slashing wounds and hounding the animal until it bled to death. Those dogs of the past would never have even tried taking down a full grown bovine, it was humans who developed the jaw and the front end of these animals which allowed them to tackle the job.

My chihuahua is agressive, but most of the time nobody cares because if he's not in anyone's face he's not a danger to anyone, the only way he might succeed in severing my arm was if I had died already and he'd had a week or so to gnaw at it.

So what we have is a combination of powerful animals and humans who no longer use them for work and therefore have little understanding of the proper management of powerful animals, and the reasons for it. Therefore controls over ownership and breeding are a logical step to take IMO.

This is the attitude that angers me, total double standards. It's OK if a little dog is an aggressive little shit, we won't try & get help for it, it's only tiny & can't cause harm, except if it attacks a baby or small child.

One of my sisters has an aggressive little shit of a Chi, it will bite anyone who gets near it except her, she also laughs about it, saying he thinks he's a big dog. I have tried trying to change it's behaviour, but my sister starts yelling at me saying I am scaring it, sure just trying to talk to it & pat it must be scary for this little bastard, it has bitten me many times. She has two daughters who are late teens & early twenties, soon they will possibly be getting married & having children, I've told both girls that when they have children, NEVER to take them to their mothers house, unless the dog is confined & can't get near their babies, they both agree.

Of course it's not ok if a little dog is an agressive little shit but it's not exactly a tragedy waiting to happen is it? My dog would have to have access to a baby or small child to bite it and he doesn't so it really makes no difference to anyone else if he is agressive or not.

There is going to be a difference between the management and potential of a large animal versus a small animal, it's common sense it's got nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with the practical implications of large dog vs small dog irrespective of breed.

It's got everythiing to do with it, you are an irresponsible owner laughing at your dog being vicious, forget the size, why haven't you trained it, or seeked professional help to get rid of aggression?

This is what really aggravates me, on DOL, we have owners of small dogs agreeing with banning large dogs, yet they can't even control a small dog.

So us owners of big dogs who are responsible owners, have to suffer because of BSL & worst of all, so do our beautiful non aggressive dogs.

[Elfin]

My chihuahua is agressive, but most of the time nobody cares because if he's not in anyone's face he's not a danger to anyone, the only way he might succeed in severing my arm was if I had died already and he'd had a week or so to gnaw at it.

My 45kg Deerhound needed extensive surgery to reattach his thigh muscle after an aggressive 5kg Jack Russell grabbed hold of him. Four years later, he still has a 20cm scar down his leg, and some muscle weakness there.

I don't thinks that's very funny.

An aggressive dog is an aggressive dog. I don't care about it's size.

And for the record, my dog never even TOUCHED the JRT as it attacked him. He was running away from the little turd and it latched onto my boy's thigh.

Being dog aggressive is very different to what we are talking about here, which is attacking a human.

Errrr, I was questioning WnH's inference that small dogs were not a danger to anyone.

Aggression of any sort , be it HA or DA should not be tolerated (or in some cases, laughed at), I don't give two hoots if it is a Chihuahua or APBT.

[Shmurps]

I have been reading this with great interest and every day this worries me.

I do work in the pet industry, and no we don't sell puppies and kittens, but on a daily basis we have people come in with their

entire males and puppies. Whether they are buying food or a collar we always have the same conversations. Most want to breed.

I would say 80% are mix breeds ranging from Maltese x, oodles etc... but there is a large percentage that have bull breeds and all of those are from

byb. Most of the time we talk people out of wanting to breed their little pup that was bought from a petshop or byb. But to have a discussion with someone who has a bull breed is near impossible.

So my question is what can I do? or can someone write me up a educational flyer that I can hand out. It doesn't have to be directed at any breed I

guess but if we can stop at least one person from irresponsible breeding it would be a very small start.

[BJean]

Lilli

I give you much the same answer. Many dogs have the potential to be dangerous and when large and powerful breeds are deliberately crossed with the intention of breeding dogs that can take a person's arms off, or are trained to be aggressive towards humans and other animals, then I don't want to be aligned with the people responsible. It is a perverse form of cruelty to animals and the people who are responsible are as guilty as the dog itself when an attack like this happens.

I am not going go brand any particular breed as dangerous.

But the deliberate crossbreeding of dogs carries with it an explosive recipe for disaster.

Good breeders of purebred dogs have been breeding for good temperament for years. They know the bloodlines and they select for the best features.

Somebody in some backyard puts together a dog and a bitch on the basis that they will make "rooly good fightin dogs" to protect their stash, or whatever.

Or they allow two dogs (probably already crossbred dogs) to mate just to produce a litter of puppies to sell, with no real knowledge of what is in the background of the parent dogs and no idea of what an explosive temperament they might be creating when the offspring reach maturity, particularly if they end up in the wrong household.

Sorry, not on!

The risk is too high.

Purebred dog breeders of dogs with good temperament do not deserve to be aligned with the above.

Souff

Yes Souff

But it will not be cross breed derivatives that are targeted

instead pedigree breeders of medium-big breeds, anything that the public and other

dog breeders dont know much about and or are afraid of.

I dont believe in divide and conquer - or that we can stand by ameliorate why other

breed types fall.

As a big breed person

I feel the future of my dogs lies with the future of all dogs ...

To be honest small breeds like pug, mini poodle, cav, chi

really are insignificant to me, and on some level I view them with contempt

so legistlation which would restrict-to-cease their breeding on health grounds is

inconsequential -

such legistlation would never be drawn up for my breeds - the health problems simply

aren't there to the extent that they are in many small companion bred dogs ...

nevertheless I will fight the RSPCA on their PR crapola campaign

denigrating pedigree breeds

and calling their health a significant welfare issue -

even if mine are never likely to fall under that RSPCA radar.

I read respondants afraid or ignorant of big dogs (and the psyche of certain other dogs)

yet in the same breath they are espousing solutions for the 'control', ownership and future of these dogs ...

yet they would be the first to demand that breeders not the RSPCA be the ones to

oversee the health and future of their own dogs.

Tell me how does a dog attack, come to ownership of all medium-big dog breeds needing to be

controlled?

It comes to pass when self-flagellating dog owners/breeders dont support each other, and espouse solutions for things they do not know much about.

Worse still, they assume that a legistlative system knows more about where dogs

can be owned and bred, more so than any breeder or breed specialist.

When the RSCPA come knocking on their door to decreee that their cav's brain is the

incorrect size for its skull, and cant be bred, (and owned)

or pug's airways are too distorted to breathe and cant be bred (and owned)

that is the dog control legislative system at work.

We've got healthy mutts Vs sickly pedigrees

and small dogs (excluding the sickly pedigree ones) Vs big dogs.

I suppose you cant use the health stick to go after all dogs, so just as well we can

incorporate 'scarey potential' as well.

Aye too much nonsense, give me my scallop shell of quiet

night

Edited March 25, 2010 by lilli

[mantis]

My chihuahua is agressive, but most of the time nobody cares because if he's not in anyone's face he's not a danger to anyone, the only way he might succeed in severing my arm was if I had died already and he'd had a week or so to gnaw at it.

My 45kg Deerhound needed extensive surgery to reattach his thigh muscle after an aggressive 5kg Jack Russell grabbed hold of him. Four years later, he still has a 20cm scar down his leg, and some muscle weakness there.

I don't thinks that's very funny.

An aggressive dog is an aggressive dog. I don't care about it's size.

And for the record, my dog never even TOUCHED the JRT as it attacked him. He was running away from the little turd and it latched onto my boy's thigh.

Being dog aggressive is very different to what we are talking about here, which is attacking a human.

But WoofnHoof, is laughing about her Chi being HA, I don't find that funny at all, just very sad. It isn't amusing if any dog is HA no matter the size, it just shows bad, irresponsible owners who don't know how to train their dog. Let's hope they never get a dog over 5kgs, could be very dangerous with their attitude.

[WoofnHoof]

It's got everythiing to do with it, you are an irresponsible owner laughing at your dog being vicious, forget the size, why haven't you trained it, or seeked professional help to get rid of aggression?

This is what really aggravates me, on DOL, we have owners of small dogs agreeing with banning large dogs, yet they can't even control a small dog.

So us owners of big dogs who are responsible owners, have to suffer because of BSL & worst of all, so do our beautiful non aggressive dogs.

I'd love to know where you got the impression that myself (or anyone else here) is agreeing with banning large dogs. I have a husky which could be called a large dog (although technically they are a medium breed) so I'd hardly be advocating the banning of large dogs would I?

You are also assuming that I haven't trained him, which isn't true he is less agressive than he was when the issue became apparent, at the end of the day though were I to do a risk assessment on the impact of his agression on myself or any other human the risk would be negligible.

It's a simple fact that a large powerful breed has a greater potential for the sort of damage in the OP than a smaller, weaker one does. Acknowledging this fact does not somehow morph into supporting BSL. It wasn't a chi or a JRT or any other small breed that tore this woman's arm and that is what needs to be looked at - what type of dog can do this damage and what sort of strategies should be employed to try to prevent it happening again.

[ILK]

I know all of this has been said before, but by reading this thread it needs to be said again.

It doesn't matter the breed or the size of the dog. If the dog is not fulfilled then it may misbehave. A toy dog may chew off a childs finger where a larger breed may chew off an adults arm.

The breed is not of consequence except by what the media portrays.

[Jed]

I was attacked by a very large entire male boxer about 15 years ago. All my bite injuries were on my arms and hands - because I was using these to defend my face and neck which are what the dog was attacking and aiming at. He was dragged off me with chains but wasn't put down. He belonged to my aunt and would have loved to finish the job. Even years later when I helped her move some furniture he was chained up but was lunging and frothing at the mouth wanting to get at me. I ended up never visiting my aunt until after he died (of cancer). He had attacked several others over the years - mine was one of the worst but I wasn't the only one sent to hospital by that dog. He was very dominant by nature, raised very badly, and got even worse with age.

In the case of my attack he gave no warning whatsoever. The back door of my aunt's house was opened (by my aunt), he charged inside and went straight for my neck. My partner was next door and he said it sounded like 2 dogs fighting - but the other dog wasn't even involved. I had no way of defending myself.

In this case, I would be pretty sure that her arms were injured because she used her arms to protect her face and neck for as long as she could. The dog intended to kill her. It is very good that this dog was put down.

Yes there is a long list of breeds capable of killing and seriously injuring people. I really like boxers - most of them are lovely - and I can be quite relaxed around one these days (mind you, that took a few years' work on my part). But owning a big dog is a big responsibility and owning a big dog with a tendency to be aggressive is an awesome responsibility and beyond most people's abilities.

I have brought this post forward to highlight the important fact in the dog attack we are talking about.

I have known boxers to behave as Zug Zug's aunt's dog did.

He was a dominant dog, and he was raised poorly. He did not have respect. He had taken over leadership of the household, because his human did not provide appropriate leadership.

He was deciding who should do what. If it didn't suit him, he would do whatever he felt was appropriate, including attacking people.

Dogs need appropriate leadership and guidance. Most boxer breeders are careful where their dogs go, and most do breed for slightly milder temperament. Fortunately, no one who wants a boxer wants to make it into an attack dog, and most know how to raise and train them.

This dog was very dangerous, and if he had belonged to me, he would have had his wings. But then, he probably wouldn't have taken over leadership, so there would have been no problem.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i have a small dog and everyone discusses how well behaved she is. I am the pack leader, she knows it and is a beautiful tempered dog. she barks if someone knocks at the door but stops when i tell her to.

she has never shown and aggression because that is not accepted behaviour in this house.

so the problem i have is why do most peopl expect small dogs to be badly behaved?

I have had large dogs and i can assure you all my small dog has the same rules and boundaries as the GSD's and labs. it is one of my pet peeves that small dogs are allowed to be badly behaved, there is no need for this at all.

I think people with small dogs that are badly behaved are taking the easy way out by saying it doesnt matter...it does...we want all dogs to be good community citizens because that helps all dogs big and small.

BTW, my small dog is very happy and confident so rules and boundaries hasnt harmed her one bit.