No Neuter Ch In Qld

[HOGWARTZBOXERS]

I think QLD is looking at the original reason for Ch shows - which is the assessment of breeding stock. The CCCQ have obviusly taken the view that a neuter is not breeding stock and therefore not elligible to be shown.

Sorry to be the dippy downer but I agree 100% with the above statement.

Conformation showing is ALL ABOUT assessment of breeding stock imo and that is how it should remain I feel.

To advance the sport/hobby ,I have no problem with having Neuter classes and sweepstakes in the shows, both champ and open, but I dont believe they should be eligible for challenge points or Best In Group/Show titles, but rather Best Neuter in Group/Show as per Baby In Group/Show, not eligable for points but still included.

They could be removed as are the baby puppies in the Chalenge line ups and even best in class could go through to General Specials but not be included in the Best In Show Line up.

I think most people would be happy with a similar solutuion if introduced, what do you all think?

would you be happy with something like this??

Hogz

[Bullbreedlover]

It was my understanding that dog/bitch neuters in each breed dont/arent allowed to compete for cc. They are judged in their class after opens but only come back in the ring to find the best neuter of breed.

Do they then go foward to find the est neuter of each group and then in show?

So they are still being judged in their breeds, which is what I think should be happening.

There are many beautiful examples which have had to be neutered and still get to show off against the entire stock would be great. Good for the public to see them as a whole in the breeds.

Many times the neutered stakes just get a cursory glance.

[Paptacular!]

It was my understanding that dog/bitch neuters in each breed dont/arent allowed to compete for cc. They are judged in their class after opens but only come back in the ring to find the best neuter of breed.

Do they then go foward to find the est neuter of each group and then in show?

So they are still being judged in their breeds, which is what I think should be happening.

There are many beautiful examples which have had to be neutered and still get to show off against the entire stock would be great. Good for the public to see them as a whole in the breeds.

Many times the neutered stakes just get a cursory glance.

That was my understanding too.

[Tansy]

The fact that they are refusing to promote it just shows how little respect the ANKC commands and is given, and this also reflects on the rest of Australia as a National body...

The thing is, it is not the ANKC as such that determines these things. Delegates from all of the State/Territory bodies meet and vote on these things. Two delegates from each State/Territory attend the conference. NSW, Qld and Vic have two votes each, all others have one vote.

So, I'm guessing Qld voted no and most others voted yes, and now Qld are acting like a spoilt child because they didn't get their way.

By the way, I think this title is stupid. Maybe not the title as such, but how it is awarded. Normally to obtain points you need to beat all the others in your breed, or at least all of one gender, whereas with this new title you just need to win a class to gain points. I don't think there will be many instances where there will be more than one Neuter entered, so it will just be a matter of entering 17 shows and getting 6 points a show. Yes, I know this happens in some breeds anyway, but I don't think it is much of an achievement just turning up 17 times. I guess that judges can nil award, but it rarely happens with the CCs, so I doubt judges will be more inclined to nil award a class (actually can they even nil award a class? I thought judges could only nil award a Challenge).

Even though I think the title is stupid I think if it is voted on by the delegates then it should be implemented uniformly across all states.

[SparkyTansy]

I think QLD is looking at the original reason for Ch shows - which is the assessment of breeding stock. The CCCQ have obviusly taken the view that a neuter is not breeding stock and therefore not elligible to be shown.

Sorry to be the dippy downer but I agree 100% with the above statement.

Conformation showing is ALL ABOUT assessment of breeding stock imo and that is how it should remain I feel.

To advance the sport/hobby ,I have no problem with having Neuter classes and sweepstakes in the shows, both champ and open, but I dont believe they should be eligible for challenge points or Best In Group/Show titles, but rather Best Neuter in Group/Show as per Baby In Group/Show, not eligable for points but still included.

They could be removed as are the baby puppies in the Chalenge line ups and even best in class could go through to General Specials but not be included in the Best In Show Line up.

I think most people would be happy with a similar solutuion if introduced, what do you all think?

would you be happy with something like this??

Hogz

Hogz they aren't eligible for the challenge points that entire exhibits get...they get points the same way but only against other neuters. They don't compete at all against the other exhibits (entires) but have their own which is essentially the same set up as a normal show but against neuters only.

[Tarmons]

Don't kid yourselves...... over the years many a neutered bitch has gained its Aust Ch in Qld.

The CCCQ don't come to the party over Rule changes. The new Tracking Rules are a classic example. Qld has refused to come in line with the other States regarding 'Baits' and rewards. Qld is still the only state that requires a Pass in SS before a dog can trial in CD even if it has its CCD. The reason - and this came from the top - Trainee Judges need the experience of judging the trial ring.

[Dracdog]

Don't kid yourselves...... over the years many a neutered bitch has gained its Aust Ch in Qld.

Qld is still the only state that requires a Pass in SS before a dog can trial in CD even if it has its CCD. The reason - and this came from the top - Trainee Judges need the experience of judging the trial ring.

If there have been spayed Bitches titled then they should have their titles stripped and be suspended.

Would you prefer to have an inexperienced judge judging your dog for it's title? Open shows are used for the same purpose the only differance being that you don't have to qualify in one to enter a Champ show.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Dracdog

[-Megz-]

The fact that they are refusing to promote it just shows how little respect the ANKC commands and is given, and this also reflects on the rest of Australia as a National body...

The thing is, it is not the ANKC as such that determines these things. Delegates from all of the State/Territory bodies meet and vote on these things. Two delegates from each State/Territory attend the conference. NSW, Qld and Vic have two votes each, all others have one vote.

So, I'm guessing Qld voted no and most others voted yes, and now Qld are acting like a spoilt child because they didn't get their way.

By the way, I think this title is stupid. Maybe not the title as such, but how it is awarded. Normally to obtain points you need to beat all the others in your breed, or at least all of one gender, whereas with this new title you just need to win a class to gain points. I don't think there will be many instances where there will be more than one Neuter entered, so it will just be a matter of entering 17 shows and getting 6 points a show. Yes, I know this happens in some breeds anyway, but I don't think it is much of an achievement just turning up 17 times. I guess that judges can nil award, but it rarely happens with the CCs, so I doubt judges will be more inclined to nil award a class (actually can they even nil award a class? I thought judges could only nil award a Challenge).

Even though I think the title is stupid I think if it is voted on by the delegates then it should be implemented uniformly across all states.

I agree that it is likely that many Neuter Champions will get through on just 6 point Challenges but not because they have avoided competition but because there is no competition, much like a rare breed obtains their titles sometimes.

There are in fact 4 Neuter classes that can be offered/competed for.

So in actual fact if a club was to offer all 4 classes and a breed had a dog entered in each of Classes 15, 16, 17 and 18 then there will in fact be a Challenge line up for Neuter Challenge and then similarly for Classes 15a, 16a, 17a and 18a. Before moving onto Best Neuter of Breed.