Labrador Breeders

[blacklabrador]

I'd run a mile from any breeder, breedign primarily for colour, but that's just my own personal opinion.

:D

[magnet]

I got my baby from Majoley (Southern highlands NSW), they are on Dogzonline. We were actually looking for a black, but Billie came along and we snapped her up, she is awesome. Great dog, great temperament and very smart. So much for the experts who told me chocolate labs are crazy :D Good luck.

Edited April 21, 2010 by magnet

[macka]

I got my baby from Majoley (Southern highlands NSW), they are on Dogzonline. We were actually looking for a black, but Billie came along and we snapped her up, she is awesome. Great dog, great temperament and very smart. So much for the experts who told me chocolate labs are crazy Good luck.

Speaking of Billie... we need more Billie photos in the lab thread. :D

[mrs tornsocks]

My dog is from a Lacote sire, although mated to another bitch (ie not bred as such by Lacote).

We were charged - and bought - higher than what I thought was a 'standard' lab puppy price. Won't go into the circumstances as to why we did this, but we did so knowing that there was no legit reason to a choc to be more than a yellow or black.

I would ask a breeder why they charge $1800 for a choc, when leading (eg breeders of Aust champ show dogs) breeders charge less for a yellow or black. Just see what the reaction is.

You know what though ? Don't get too bogged down in it. You are obviously already doing plenty of research and getting good reccs here, so weigh those up -- and ask the breeder heaps of questions.

[magnet]

I got my baby from Majoley (Southern highlands NSW), they are on Dogzonline. We were actually looking for a black, but Billie came along and we snapped her up, she is awesome. Great dog, great temperament and very smart. So much for the experts who told me chocolate labs are crazy Good luck.

Speaking of Billie... we need more Billie photos in the lab thread. :D

Haha! Yeah, gotta get the camera out this weekend. She's snoring loudly as I type.

[Mas1981]

One question about chocolates while we are discussing them, are they meant to have pink rims around their eyes and pink on the inside of lips??

None of mine do!! I believe they should have liver points and that yellows and blacks should have black points, unless of course they are yellow with liver points which is not true to standard, and cannot be exhibited in shows.

Most of the ones I have seen out and about have the pink so I was just wondering if all of them had it, thanks for the answer, I love the deep rich chocs that you can get but I dont like the pink eye rims etc.

[Baby Dragon]

My yellow lab has black eye rims and a dark liver nose, is it common to have that mix?

[Cordelia]

Hopefully blacks won't ever gain the popularity of chocs or yellows.. The best should be harder to find :D

Agree with everyone who stated $1800 is INSANELY expensive for a pet puppy... I would be expecting pick of the litter from a Driftway litter for that price (and I'd be expecting to win the bloody Royal!)

Rip off.

[Embellish]

Hopefully blacks won't ever gain the popularity of chocs or yellows.. The best should be harder to find :nahnah:

Agree with everyone who stated $1800 is INSANELY expensive for a pet puppy... I would be expecting pick of the litter from a Driftway litter for that price (and I'd be expecting to win the bloody Royal!)

Rip off.

Believe me, even Guy (Driftway) does not charge those prices - even for a show prospect..... he would choke on his coffee at the thought

[Bubitty]

Is it even possible to get a Driftway puppy? I have heard great things about them and I'm thinking the puppy queue must go on forever!

[macka]

There is a driftway puppy in our lab thread so yes, it is possible!

There are also many other breeders using driftway dams/sires.

[sandgrubber]

Amusing. When someone says pedigree dogs cost too much everyone comes on saying that the initial purchase price of a dog is almost immaterial compared to the long term costs of good care. But when some breeder charges a few hundred dollars more than they do, or their friends do, everyone gets judgemental. Blackboy has been charging $1600 for chocos, pet or show, for some time. Long wait list. It's a market, guys. People who are investing to try and produce the best shouldn't get finger wags for charging what the market will bare. If the purchaser wants a cheaper choco pup, they will find one eventually . . . may mean a longer wait or a lesser quality. I'll bet that there will be a long wait list for chocos at Driftway, both show and pet quality. Economics 101 teaches that when stocks are low and delivery times are long, prices rise. One reason that we aren't producing enough pedigree dogs is that prices are often low and do now adequately reward the breeder for the expenses and time involved in raising a quality pup. If more people found they could go to, say, part time employment to spend more time with their dogs . .. and produce four or five litters a year out of well-cared for dogs . . . I think the supply problem for pedigree dogs would resolve itself.

[poodlefan]

Sandgrubber:

But when some breeder charges a few hundred dollars more than they do, or their friends do, everyone gets judgemental.

In some cases, Sandgrubber, cynicism is justified. Outside of your breed, blue Staffords are a case in point. Twice or even three times the price of another coloured SBT for a blue.. no imports involved either.

People are paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars extra for a colour. Not a better quality dog, just colour. We all know there are breeders out there whose dogs never darken a show ring and who are making money hand over fist by riding the wave of popularity generated by people who often don't understand that by insisting on a particular colour, they are compromising on almost all other aspects of their pup.

Some of those breeders are listed here.. no titles on the dogs, pups advertised with colour as the prominent feature and some damned ordinary dogs used to produce the pups.

There will always be exceptional breeders who choose to focus on developing and improving a particular feature of a breed. The trick is trying to steer puppy buyers away from the profiteers and towards the pioneers. The penalty is, as you suggest, long waiting times. And some folk just won't wait.

[macka]

Breeders have the right to charge whatever they like but purchasers equally have the right to tell 'em they''re dreaming and go elsewhere. ;)

[Sandra777]

Breeders have the right to charge whatever they like but purchasers equally have the right to tell 'em they''re dreaming and go elsewhere. ;)

And buyers certainly have the right to be informed that paying WAAY over the odds for a dog just because it is a certain colour is in no way guaranteeing their puppy is a healthy specimen of the breed. I have no issues with people who breed certain colours no matter what those colours or breeds are - I have major issues with people who breed for colour.

If you are breeding a high quality healthy dog and trying to keep it a specific colour then all power to you and charge whatever you like.

If you are churning out certain colours because idiot buyers think they're "special" or "rare" then expect to get bombarded.

[poodlefan]

What's being discussed here is why many many poodle folk are wary of allowing particolours to upgraded from a disqualifying fault in the standards.

There are already folk advertising "rare" phantom markings (and they ain't rare at all) for $$$$ and people falling for it.

Imagine the circus if partis get back in. Most poodle folk admire a good one but worry about what might happen to the standard of dogs if flashy markings become fashionable.

[sandgrubber]

I agree. There was a fad for 'rare silver Labradors' and a few corrupt breeders pawning off Weimerarner cross pups with pedigrees, probably faked, of no particular distinction for mega bucks. That's also pretty standard in markets, hence the well known maxim 'buyer beware'. It's worth warning people off snake oil salesmen (or women). But $1800 vs $1200 with a long wait or $1200 with no particular distinction in the pedigree is bugger-all difference. If Guy isn't raising his prices when he has a long wait list he is either a man of principle or an idiot, depending on whether you accept market principles or laud people for putting principles before economics.

I'm a breeder. I would gladly pay $600 more to avoid the ugly Laboratory Rat look of pink eye rings and nose that sometimes go with choco labs. Hell, I'd pay $2000 more for a fantastic pup. Beats the $8k plus and misery of quarantine for importing the equivalent.

Sandgrubber:

But when some breeder charges a few hundred dollars more than they do, or their friends do, everyone gets judgemental.

In some cases, Sandgrubber, cynicism is justified. Outside of your breed, blue Staffords are a case in point. Twice or even three times the price of another coloured SBT for a blue.. no imports involved either.

People are paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars extra for a colour. Not a better quality dog, just colour. We all know there are breeders out there whose dogs never darken a show ring and who are making money hand over fist by riding the wave of popularity generated by people who often don't understand that by insisting on a particular colour, they are compromising on almost all other aspects of their pup.

Some of those breeders are listed here.. no titles on the dogs, pups advertised with colour as the prominent feature and some damned ordinary dogs used to produce the pups.

There will always be exceptional breeders who choose to focus on developing and improving a particular feature of a breed. The trick is trying to steer puppy buyers away from the profiteers and towards the pioneers. The penalty is, as you suggest, long waiting times. And some folk just won't wait.

Edited April 22, 2010 by sandgrubber

[poodlefan]

I agree. There was a fad for 'rare silver Labradors' and a few corrupt breeders pawning off Weimerarner cross pups with pedigrees, probably faked, of no particular distinction for mega bucks. .

Interesting that in poodles, silver is a dilute of brown.

There have been some highly regarded and established breeders take on producing quality in a colour before. I know in the USA a long time poodle person took on reviving white Miniatures and there's someone here doing it too. However they're doing it for the breed and to preserve a colour, not to profit from it. And they do a hell of a lot more thinking than mating colour to colour to produce it.

The challenge in poodles is to get clear colour without losing dark pigment. You don't tend to get that by simply mating white to white for generation after generation.

[RubyStar]

Interesting discussion. I own a chocolate Lab but not because I wanted to jump on the colour bandwagon, she came to me as a rescue dog. I originally wanted another yellow puppy but fate brought her to me instead. She must be poorly bred, she has the pink nose/eye rims/lips, so it must look like I went out and got myself a poorly bred choc pup because I wanted to jump on this so called bandwagon. Doesn't mean I love her any less and I think she's beautiful. If I had gone the puppy route instead of adult rescue, I definitely wouldn't have bought a choc pup. I don't find the colour that fantastic that will justify me going on a longer than usual wait list and paying prime $$ for that privilege. Give me a yellow anyday! And yes, yellow are my preference, why shouldn't I be allowed to have a preference as one of these "pet" buyers.

[poodlefan]

Interesting discussion. I own a chocolate Lab but not because I wanted to jump on the colour bandwagon, she came to me as a rescue dog. I originally wanted another yellow puppy but fate brought her to me instead. She must be poorly bred, she has the pink nose/eye rims/lips, so it must look like I went out and got myself a poorly bred choc pup because I wanted to jump on this so called bandwagon. Doesn't mean I love her any less and I think she's beautiful. If I had gone the puppy route instead of adult rescue, I definitely wouldn't have bought a choc pup. I don't find the colour that fantastic that will justify me going on a longer than usual wait list and paying prime $$ for that privilege. Give me a yellow anyday! And yes, yellow are my preference, why shouldn't I be allowed to have a preference as one of these "pet" buyers.

Everyone has preferences RS. I like the yellows too. But buying a dog when a less common colour becomes your primary requirement means waiting or compromise.

What I object to is when a fashionable colour becomes the primary goal of breeders who breed to fill that demand. And that's because they compromise on breed quality to do it. In essence they cash in on breed reputation established by others but do nothing to contribute to maintaining or improving it. When that colour can have health implications or is a breed fault, its downright unethical IMO.