persephone Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 she is more scared of the words "WHO DID THIS" *nods* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilypoo Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 *nods* Im new to DOL so just wondering what this means????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 it means "Yes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I'm not sure that appeasement gestures, even if they do involve great eye contact, make for very beautiful heeling I like the thinking though, turn it around straight away, reinforce the good. Just be careful not to reinforce sooky behaviour, maybe ask her to do something else then reinforce that instead. My thoughts exactly ;) I see a difference between an appeasement gesture and a dog who is looking to you in confidence during heelwork. My Dane on the other hand, as soon as she senses somethings up there is NO way she will come anywhere near you. If you can get close enough to smack her bum (ill probably get negative comments for smaking) she drops it to the ground and keeps running.... Funniest thing to watch :D I too am wondering why it's funny? How is your dog being afraid of you even mildly amusing? Not sure I'd be teaching my dog to focus on my face by yelling at it. I'd certainly not be initiating the behaviour by reprimanding the dog then confusing it by rewarding it straight after. Agreed :D A focus exercise isn't difficult. You can simply hold a treat in front of your face, use the dog's name and reward the dog for looking in your eyes. Prolong the time and phase out the lure and bingo.. dog looks to you on cue. That's what I do, or I hold the treat in my hand away from my body and reward the dog for looking to me for direction (not unlike the basic principle of TOT). Lighten up..... The dog doesnt get hurt...If she was scared then she wouldnt come back to me.. Her tail is non stop wagging and SHE doesnt drop to the floor only her bum so you cant reach it.. she is more scared of the words "WHO DID THIS" But you said when you get close enough to her to smack her, she drops her bum and runs away or avoids you as soon as she 'senses' something is up - why would she run away or avoid you if she wasn't scared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilypoo Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) But you said when you get close enough to her to smack her, she drops her bum and runs away or avoids you as soon as she 'senses' something is up - why would she run away or avoid you if she wasn't scared? Forget I said anything... i dont come on here to be attacked.... What is good for your breed or dog may not be good for me and my dog. Everyone does things differently. If you knew my dogs temprement you would think her attitude and body language is funny aswell. I would never hurt any animal deliberatly. My dogs are soo loved and spoilt...I shouldnt have to defend myself on here. We are all dog lovers and thats all that should matter Sorry I said anything.... Edited March 22, 2010 by Gilypoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 But you said when you get close enough to her to smack her, she drops her bum and runs away or avoids you as soon as she 'senses' something is up - why would she run away or avoid you if she wasn't scared? Forget I said anything... i dont come on here to be attacked.... What is good for your breed or dog may not be good for me and my dog. Everyone does things differently. If you knew my dogs temprement you would think her attitude and body language is funny aswell. I would never hurt any animal deliberatly. My dogs are soo loved and spoilt...I shouldnt have to defend myself on her. We are all dog lovers and thats all that should matter Sorry I said anything.... No one is attacking you, just trying to understand why you would think it was funny if you dog was avoiding or running away from you when she knows you are going to smack her. I can't ever imagine thinking it was funny my dog was scared of me, but each to their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilypoo Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 No one is attacking you, Could of fooled me :D just trying to understand why you would think it was funny if you dog was avoiding or running away from you when she knows you are going to smack her.I can't ever imagine thinking it was funny my dog was scared of me, but each to their own I dont think it funny that shes scared of me cause I know that she ISNT scared of me.... Obviously she respects me as I am the Alpha but definatly not scared. She does the oppposite to what the GSD in the original post does.. She sulks up ears flat and waits.... How is that not a dog being scared of the owner/ stiuation... Laying to the floor is a submissive thing and any dog that puts their ears flat is showing signs of being scared.... I was just saying that my dane does the opposite and runs away and if you get close she drops her bum... Animal cruelty is not a thing to be laughed at and I would hate to think my girls are scared, but I know they arent. And unless you have seen my dane in action you cant coment that she is scared of me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I think if the dog is running away from you it has trust issues with you. If it is lowering its bum in the circumstances you describe it is anticipating a smack and trying to avoid it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) Ok, then when she avoids you or runs away when she "knows" you are going to smack her, what do you think is driving that behaviour? Edited March 22, 2010 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilypoo Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I think if the dog is running away from you it has trust issues with you Ok i get it... im a sucky puppy mummy... I give up. The typical DOL pact mentality has come out again... How about we try and focus on the original question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I'm not trying to be mean. My GSD had trust issues with me for a while as my older Kelpie X would growl at him if he tried to come to me if she was there too (she is possessive), so I had a hard time getting him to come to me in the yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 The typical DOL pact mentality has come out again... Oh please - any time more than one person disagrees with a post it's suddenly a pack? Seeing as we can't see your dog, why do you think she runs away and avoids you when she knows you are going to smack her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilypoo Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Seeing as we can't see your dog, why do you think she runs away and avoids you when she knows you are going to smack her? you know what, if she is scared then so be it... You cant tell me that when you punish your dog in which ever way (smacks, raised voice, low voice) that the dog doesnt react in some way.. If the dogs puts its tail in between its legs, drops to the ground sooks, then guess what the dog is scared of you aswell so it puts you in the same boat... DOL is about supporting and giving advise. I only posted what my dogs do in the same situation to contribute to the thread.. If I was having problems then I would have started my own thread. Now I really dont want to discuss this further, we have too far gone of topic. If you want to PM that is fine but ive said what I want and you have aswell so please just drop it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridie Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I think if the dog is running away from you it has trust issues with you Ok i get it... im a sucky puppy mummy... I give up. The typical DOL pact mentality has come out again... How about we try and focus on the original question.... oh dear what was "the question again"!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilypoo Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 oh dear what was "the question again"!! exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) Seeing as we can't see your dog, why do you think she runs away and avoids you when she knows you are going to smack her? you know what, if she is scared then so be it... You cant tell me that when you punish your dog in which ever way (smacks, raised voice, low voice) that the dog doesnt react in some way.. If the dogs puts its tail in between its legs, drops to the ground sooks, then guess what the dog is scared of you aswell so it puts you in the same boat... Just to clarify - I wasn't asking that question to have a go - I was asking to get a clearer picture of what your dog was doing and why seeing as you would know better than I would. I wouldn't ever smack my dogs, but I have no problems with punishments or corrections. When I punish or correct my dogs I do it to interrupt a behaviour, so the goal is to get them to stop what they are doing - I can't tell you the last time I corrected them and had them cower or put their tails between their legs or drop to the ground and sook but what response you get could depend on a number of factors like the level of punishment you use etc. Sometimes too I find that giving my dogs a known command (like here or down etc) works better than giving them a vocal correction like ah ah - i.e. the other night Daisy was flying out the front door as someone opened it to eat the cat's food which was on the other side. I could have gone "AH AH" but instead I called out 'here!' and she pelted around and came running to me instead. I don't think ah ah would have worked in that instance because her food drive is so strong, 'here' worked instantly because I've conditioned her to respond to it in food drive. But that is getting off topic Edited March 22, 2010 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all that glitters Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 When she stares at you like that, say "look" for example and praise her........."gooooood girl" and give her a treat. Teach her what "look" means and when she stares at your eyes with a "look" command, she gets rewarded. She gets the treat for making eye contact. If she breaks eye contact withhold the treat and command "look" again and increase the time before you give the treat. It's a great focus exercise Shelle, then when she can hold a stare on command, you can start walking and teach a focused heel. :p You can also use this exercise at mealtime. When feeding her make her sit and "look" at you, with full eye contact. You can start with just a few seconds and then gradually increase the time you would like her to look at you. I do this exercise with my food obsessed GR and I can now put his chicken frame in his bowl and he will immediately sit in front of it and watch me intently waiting for me to give him permission to eat :p Sorry to go OT just had to agree with Longcoat ;) Yep we've done that every night since the day I bought her home! ;) I put the food down and she knows to look STRAIGHT at me and ignore the food entirely, we stare at each other for a while and then I will say "OK!" in a bright voice and she'll eat. It's the only time I get a good stare out of her Not sure I'd be teaching my dog to focus on my face by yelling at it. I'd certainly not be initiating the behaviour by reprimanding the dog then confusing it by rewarding it straight after. Yes I know some people yell at their dogs I learnt early on that physical reprimand and raising your voice and yelling or screaming gets you nowhere with a dog, staying calm and assertive is a lot better, I always use a low tone voice.. hard to explain.. sort of like if you were telling someone a sad story or a bad story about an accident or something and your voice is a bit drab... like that! Anyway she knows I am not happy if I am talking like that lol. I keep the voice 'calm but assertive' and state my displeasure and will either stop and walk away if she is doing something naughty (ie getting excited and barking at me, thats an immediate game over), or I will walk over to her and stop her doing something that's not right (ie take a shoe off her, make her come back inside with me if she's barking at possums etc) I am glad though that when I am unhappy she will stay there or come to me, rather than run off! I think it's quite amazing the number of signals we can give off to dogs just with minimal physical moves or behaviors... yelling soooo isn't necessary once you know more about dogs and how they work! Shelle you might find this article interesting --> http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1 Oh WOW I bookmarked that, thanks, GREAT article!! It seems Shylas most common calming signal is the tail wag, and the licking and the slow walking. She's never done the bow or the paw up or a lot of the other ones yet. No one is attacking you, Could of fooled me :D just trying to understand why you would think it was funny if you dog was avoiding or running away from you when she knows you are going to smack her.I can't ever imagine thinking it was funny my dog was scared of me, but each to their own I dont think it funny that shes scared of me cause I know that she ISNT scared of me.... Obviously she respects me as I am the Alpha but definatly not scared. She does the oppposite to what the GSD in the original post does.. She sulks up ears flat and waits.... How is that not a dog being scared of the owner/ stiuation... Laying to the floor is a submissive thing and any dog that puts their ears flat is showing signs of being scared.... I was just saying that my dane does the opposite and runs away and if you get close she drops her bum... Animal cruelty is not a thing to be laughed at and I would hate to think my girls are scared, but I know they arent. And unless you have seen my dane in action you cant coment that she is scared of me... Yeah smacking of the bum just isn't needed when reprimanding a dog, it doesn't teach it anything, if anything it will just make it fear you. They can tell by your body language and energy that you aren't happy and the tone of your voice. Also getting up and walking away with your back facing the dog is a good technique too, they hate being ignored ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I agree, I have never had either of my dogs actually cower and try and get away from me, but onto the OP....It does sound like a calming behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcoat Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 When she stares at you like that, say "look" for example and praise her........."gooooood girl" and give her a treat. Teach her what "look" means and when she stares at your eyes with a "look" command, she gets rewarded. She gets the treat for making eye contact. If she breaks eye contact withhold the treat and command "look" again and increase the time before you give the treat. It's a great focus exercise Shelle, then when she can hold a stare on command, you can start walking and teach a focused heel. You can also use this exercise at mealtime. When feeding her make her sit and "look" at you, with full eye contact. You can start with just a few seconds and then gradually increase the time you would like her to look at you. I do this exercise with my food obsessed GR and I can now put his chicken frame in his bowl and he will immediately sit in front of it and watch me intently waiting for me to give him permission to eat Sorry to go OT just had to agree with Longcoat We do the same at meal times gsdog2 with our GSD and GR, works a treat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcoat Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 PF- I ,too was wondering about this, it seemed a bit at odds with itself .To get a dog to look at you, wouldn't T O T be a better place to start? A focus exercise isn't difficult. You can simply hold a treat in front of your face, use the dog's name and reward the dog for looking in your eyes. Prolong the time and phase out the lure and bingo.. dog looks to you on cue. Some serious obedience folk put the food in their mouths and spit it out for the dog during a heel work pattern. Sounds gross but gee it works. Their dogs eyes never leave their faces. If you can get eye focus on command, you don't need to spit food at the dog in heel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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