Sayly Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 You own a dog bred by Mrs Judge, can you handle someone else's dog (different breed, different group) under that judge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Yep ypu can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 Thanks, I thought so but thought I'd better check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
experiencedfun Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 depends how long ago you purchased.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWei Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Can I hijack and ask something similar, you own a dog bred by the judge. This dog is not a show dog, you own and show a different breed of dog that the judge does not breed or show, can you show this dog under said judge. I can't find anything that says no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarakay Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Can I hijack and ask something similar, you own a dog bred by the judge. This dog is not a show dog, you own and show a different breed of dog that the judge does not breed or show, can you show this dog under said judge. I can't find anything that says no. Yes :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWei Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Thanks tarakay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 depends how long ago you purchased.... Does it? What sort of time frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 experiencedfun - not running a dog bred by the judge so doesn't make any difference how long ago the handler bought a dog.If you are referring to showing a dog under the person who bred him/housed him/treated him etc it must be at least 6 months.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 There is often a difference between the legal answer and the right answer to this question. I personally would not handle any breed of dog under the breeder of my dogs because we have a close mentoring relationship. She's one judge out of a zillion judges and so it does not cause me any dramas to skip a show she might be judging. If there is a significant apparent conflict of interest then even if it's legal per the regs and the judge is as straight as an arrow, any wins will be tainted and will reflect poorly on the judge, you and by extension, the show committee. However, if the judge in question sold you a dog years ago that is now out of circulation and there was no apparent conflict of interest then I probably would show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWei Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 There is often a difference between the legal answer and the right answer to this question. I personally would not handle any breed of dog under the breeder of my dogs because we have a close mentoring relationship. She's one judge out of a zillion judges and so it does not cause me any dramas to skip a show she might be judging. If there is a significant apparent conflict of interest then even if it's legal per the regs and the judge is as straight as an arrow, any wins will be tainted and will reflect poorly on the judge, you and by extension, the show committee. However, if the judge in question sold you a dog years ago that is now out of circulation and there was no apparent conflict of interest then I probably would show. The latter to the case is my situation. I bought my second golden off the judge 12 years ago, and apart from one of two emails in those 12 years to let them know how he was going, I haven't had any contact with them. I seriously doubt the would remember me, or my face. IF we had a close mentoring relationship, then no, I probably wouldn't show under them, or get someone else to handle for me, assuming they hadn't met the exhibit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarakay Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 This brings up another question what would you do if the breeder was on a judging panel not judging your group, would you show or would you not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracdog Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 experiencedfun - not running a dog bred by the judge so doesn't make any difference how long ago the handler bought a dog.If you are referring to showing a dog under the person who bred him/housed him/treated him etc it must be at least 6 months.... It is 12 months in Qld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalay Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Perhaps I would suggest another show ?? But it would be your call on the day !!! Rules yes Ethics there is always another show somewhere could save embarrassment and gossip all the way round !!! JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayly Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) Normally I would just not handle but it's an away show and it's helping out a friend in need of handlers. I will stay out as much as possible but depending on who wins what and how thier owner is feeling health wise on the day, I may be needed. This brings up another question what would you do if the breeder was on a judging panel not judging your group, would you show or would you not. Do you mean like they were judging group 6 and you were showing in group 3? I don't see how it would be a conflict - they aren't judging your dogs and may not even know you are there showing? Perhaps I would suggest another show ??But it would be your call on the day !!! Rules yes Ethics there is always another show somewhere could save embarrassment and gossip all the way round !!! JMHO Showing in SA means we don't have the luxury of more than one show on per weekend - there are no other shows unless we want to go interstate. ETA: I would not enter under this judge with my own dogs of any breed. I have been asked now once entries are in if I will be able to help as I don't believe their normal handler is going to these shows. I will of course explain to the dog's owner the situation first, but wanted to check that if they desperately need me, that going in the ring with a dog for a run off or the like would not get them or myself in trouble. Thanks for the replies. Edited March 22, 2010 by Lyndsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 yes - sorry 12 months quite right - my apologies. If judge on panel and not judging your group - no ethical or legal issues there. SSM - in the case you spelled out I agree and would not show either. However if dog was several years old and you have had no contact then legally no problem - I might think twice ethically but it may also depend on the breed. Something "common" and plenty of them vs something rare where the judge would automatically know she bred the dog...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keshwar Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 yes - sorry 12 months quite right - my apologies.If judge on panel and not judging your group - no ethical or legal issues there. SSM - in the case you spelled out I agree and would not show either. However if dog was several years old and you have had no contact then legally no problem - I might think twice ethically but it may also depend on the breed. Something "common" and plenty of them vs something rare where the judge would automatically know she bred the dog...... I would add or General Specials to this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 keshwar - I don't necessarily agree with this unless it is within the 12 month rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaJ Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) Basically if the Judge (or a member of the Judges family in some situations) owned, leased, groomed, boarded, trained or handled the dog in any way within the last 12 months they can not judge the dog – Vets are excluded. This also includes breeding services… (Refer Conduct of Judges 6 and 7 SAKA Rules) You can handle for anyone so long as the dog does not compromise the Judge. It’s supposed to be about the dog not the handler (yep – that’s what I’m told). I’ll be using a very good handler in future as I’m crap at it. And I'm going to assume it's Pt Pirie - so have fun. Edited March 22, 2010 by AmandaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalay Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Normally I would just not handle but it's an away show and it's helping out a friend in need of handlers. I will stay out as much as possible but depending on who wins what and how thier owner is feeling health wise on the day, I may be needed.This brings up another question what would you do if the breeder was on a judging panel not judging your group, would you show or would you not. Do you mean like they were judging group 6 and you were showing in group 3? I don't see how it would be a conflict - they aren't judging your dogs and may not even know you are there showing? Perhaps I would suggest another show ??But it would be your call on the day !!! Rules yes Ethics there is always another show somewhere could save embarrassment and gossip all the way round !!! JMHO Showing in SA means we don't have the luxury of more than one show on per weekend - there are no other shows unless we want to go interstate. ETA: I would not enter under this judge with my own dogs of any breed. I have been asked now once entries are in if I will be able to help as I don't believe their normal handler is going to these shows. I will of course explain to the dog's owner the situation first, but wanted to check that if they desperately need me, that going in the ring with a dog for a run off or the like would not get them or myself in trouble. Thanks for the replies. Very hard if you do not have another show, but if you are just helping handling I couldn't see a problem, usually you are given the most difficult one to handle anyway :D There should be no trouble for you or them!! Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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