badboyz Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 For me personally, if a bitch is not a good whelper, I would not breed her again. I had years of ceasars when I started breeding, and kept thinking the next bitch would not have one, but she did. It only stopped when I bought a bitch from a free whelping line. I was once told by a long time breeder that you should never keep a bitch from a bitch that had a ceasar - and I have learnt she knew what she was talking about. I have only had one caesar since, and that was due to extreme external forces rather than a problem with the bitch, but I still desexed her afterwards. No herbs or additives in the world will, in my opinion and experience (yes I tried them all) will help a problem whelper, and a bitch who is a good whelper will need little assistance. All I will do now is maybe give a little calcium between births if I feel things are slowing down, but that is not necessary if the bitch eats some of the placentas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipitgood Posted April 24, 2010 Author Share Posted April 24, 2010 (edited) For me personally, if a bitch is not a good whelper, I would not breed her again. I had years of ceasars when I started breeding, and kept thinking the next bitch would not have one, but she did. It only stopped when I bought a bitch from a free whelping line. I was once told by a long time breeder that you should never keep a bitch from a bitch that had a ceasar - and I have learnt she knew what she was talking about. I have only had one caesar since, and that was due to extreme external forces rather than a problem with the bitch, but I still desexed her afterwards. No herbs or additives in the world will, in my opinion and experience (yes I tried them all) will help a problem whelper, and a bitch who is a good whelper will need little assistance. All I will do now is maybe give a little calcium between births if I feel things are slowing down, but that is not necessary if the bitch eats some of the placentas. Im not sure being a slow difficult whelper deserves desexing her and never breeding from her again ... just yet. She has never had to have a section. I was after advice to make it easier for her. If she had to have a caesarien this time then i would most likely desex her, but im not about to jump in and do that just yet, just because she had a hard time the last 2 times. She still did the job, albeit with difficulty! Sure, i dont agree with continually breedng a bitch that needs caesarians, but she hasnt needed caesarians. Edited April 24, 2010 by Whipitgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboyz Posted April 25, 2010 Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) The issues i had was a long time between pups (5-6 hours), atonic uterus at the end, maternal fatigue, long pushing times (for some of the pups. I seem to get this with the first puppy often). I had 2 decomposed pups that had died long before labour as well, the first and last pup. She also had a bleed about 3 weeks into her pregnancy after her post season bleeding had cleared. So all in all, it wasnt a pleasant litter for her or me! I realize you did not mention a caesar Whipit, but you do say she has had difficulty the last 2 times. You say it was not a pleasant experience for either of you. To me, that would be enough to not breed her again. Why put either of you through that stress a third time. And I still say that adding things like calcium and rasberry leaf into the equation does not an easy whelper make. The possibility of a burst uterus resulting from an overly long whelping, especially if it has happened more than once, would worry me. The atonic uterus does not sound like a healthy uterus to me. Obviously the choice is yours, and if you go ahead I hope all goes well. But you did ask for opinions, and having learnt the hard way, if it was me I would be unwilling to take the risk again, and I doubt I would keep any of her daughters either, even if she was the top winning bitch of all time. Edited April 25, 2010 by badboyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted April 25, 2010 Share Posted April 25, 2010 If she were mine and I HAD to breed her a 3rd time, I'd do an elective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipitgood Posted May 19, 2010 Author Share Posted May 19, 2010 Well i am now a convert. I decided to mate my bitch shortly after i posted this thread. I had her on prophylactic antibiotics at mating (She got a post mating infection last time), gave her kelp throughout her pregnancy, rasberry leaf tablets from 7 weeks onwards and antibiotics the week before she whelped and she has just had the easiset whelping that any of my bitches have ever had! I also gave her calcium in between pups. 6 puppies in 2 hours, the first was born within 40 minutes of pushing (usually her first takes and hour and a half and is born dead, no surprise). The rest were all born healthy, no stillborns or decomposed pups and no detached placentas which are all problems ive had before. It will now be interesting to see if i get any fading puppies, another issue ive had in the past, including one in her last litter. Im hoping the antibiotics she was on for a week before whelping may eliminate the risk of fading puppies. Im no expert and who knows if any of this contributed, but i do know i have a healthy litter which was whelped very easily and im happy with that! Thanks to all those with advice regarding kelp, rasberry leaf and calcium. I will now be using that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakeydoak1 Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 I have never needed to use anything with my bithces before but just wondering what the calcium does?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 During whelping calcium can help to maintain contractions and the strength of contractions. Often just enough to help a tiring bitch push that little bit to get a slowish puppy out. Immediately after whelping a shot of calcium (instead of oxytocin) can help the bitch to pass anything that may still be inside and help the milk to let down. Similar functions to oxytocin but a lot more gentle on the uterus and less painful for the bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakeydoak1 Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Thanks Ellz - you learn something new every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Hi Whippitgood, Congratulations on your litter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipitgood Posted May 19, 2010 Author Share Posted May 19, 2010 Thanks Chocolate! Got mostly boys again but at least they are healthy - 2 bitches and 4 dogs. All varying shades of brindle and white! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Great news Whipitgood! Maybe there was something not quite right with her the first time? A low grade infection or something? You seem to have got it sorted perfectly - can't wait for puppy photos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipitgood Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Thanks Aloysha. The second time she got an infection after mating, the first time she was fine throughout pregnancy but still had a hard time whelping. So third time lucky. Im convinced its the herbs and antibiotics! Small sample size of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboyz Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Congratulations on your beautiful babies. I am glad it all worked out well for you and your girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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