Dog Breaking From Sit Into A Drop

[Longcoat]

Please dont take this the wrong way.But i believe far too many people put the failures of a dog eg not sitting, dropping instead of sitting, breaking stays etc on excuses of being intimidated or standing the wrong way (just the reasons Ive read).To me its plain and simple the dog hasnt been trained enough in that area.Go back to basics.Dont jump steps, go slow.Once a dog knows what it MUST do it will do it.

If a dog breaks at a wait/Stay there is a reason ..THE DOG the dog doesnt know what it has to do.

Not how you are standing or if you are too close.

I tend to agree with this My dog used to do the same I think because we had overly trained him to sit and then drop where he learned that often a drop would follow a sit command. How we corrected that problem was commanding a drop first then a sit from the drop position which seemed to provide clarity in his mind what the two commands really meant. Since working the two commands backwards, he hasn't broken from either since

[JulesP]

Errr I have to disagree Dark Angel. My dog had not broken one stay ever until a big GSD scared her. It is very obvious from her body language that she is scared.

[Vickie]

Hmm, am reading this with interest.

Trim has always dropped for a stay, regardless of which position she is left in.

On sheep, she will stop by herself or on command, always in a drop.

In agility, I tried & tried to get her to sit, but she always went into a drop in anticipation. An international trainer once told me not to bother with sit for her, she is too "BC" and it would take an enormous amount of work to get her to stay in a sit without doing the BC drop.

Of course she does sit, but is like a wound up coil/spring ready to explode at any minute.

Now I am in a situation where she HAS to have a sit stay for something. So training starts tomorrow . I have never had a dog before that would not stay in a sit and it has never bothered me that she doesn't...until now .

[Prydenjoy]

Ness, you could try randomly giving the command to sit through the day at varying distances, starting closer, and working to further away. Going back to basics means that you'll be able to reward BEFORE she goes down each time, perhaps throw in one or two rewards during the stay, then release. Once you've got speedy sits and some duration work on further and further away until you get back to where you are now. Obviously always release from the sit, without asking for a drop. Perhaps rewarding with a game of tug or something for a job well done? Randomly practicing over and over informally with big rewards seems to get a speedy and keen reaction, and gives you plenty of chances to reinforce the correct behavior.

[dark angel]

Errr I have to disagree Dark Angel. My dog had not broken one stay ever until a big GSD scared her. It is very obvious from her body language that she is scared.

just curious how did he scare her?

And another thought we always train ..stand ..sit stand ...drop never sit drop....

like some of you have mentioned its just too easy for a dog to go from a sit to a drop

[dark angel]

JulesP, I do the same - never drop from a sit. Poor Poppy - hope she continues to progress!

And who's to say that the dog doesn't actually find the process of the owner returning and correcting rewarding?

A dog finding a correction rewarding??? Cant be doing it properly then

[huski]

JulesP, I do the same - never drop from a sit. Poor Poppy - hope she continues to progress!

And who's to say that the dog doesn't actually find the process of the owner returning and correcting rewarding?

A dog finding a correction rewarding??? Cant be doing it properly then

Some dogs like attention if even if it's "negative" - the owner returning, engaging with the dog to put it back in the right position etc.

If Daisy stuffs up her stays (breaks them or moves/changes position) I give her a NRM and put her back in the right position then reward.

Edited March 19, 2010 by huski

[dark angel]

JulesP, I do the same - never drop from a sit. Poor Poppy - hope she continues to progress!

And who's to say that the dog doesn't actually find the process of the owner returning and correcting rewarding?

A dog finding a correction rewarding??? Cant be doing it properly then

Some dogs like attention if even if it's "negative" - the owner returning, engaging with the dog to put it back in the right position etc.

If Daisy stuffs up her stays (breaks them or moves/changes position) I give her a NRM and put her back in the right position then reward.

Im confused .... why would you reward her when she has stuffed up her stay ??You put her back in position after she has broken then reward her for doing what ??

[huski]

Im confused .... why would you reward her when she has stuffed up her stay ??You put her back in position after she has broken then reward her for doing what ??

I mean that I would put her back in position and reward once she was remained in the right position for x amount of time.

[dark angel]

Im confused .... why would you reward her when she has stuffed up her stay ??You put her back in position after she has broken then reward her for doing what ??

I mean that I would put her back in position and reward once she was remained in the right position for x amount of time.

Ahhh clear now .. thankyou

[Vickie]

Now I am in a situation where she HAS to have a sit stay for something. So training starts tomorrow . I have never had a dog before that would not stay in a sit and it has never bothered me that she doesn't...until now :D .

She must have read this thread over night. Her sit stays were perfect this morning...for as long as I wanted .

[bedazzledx2]

Yee Haa Good Girl! Now build on that and go for time over distance and reward often and before she breaks!

Now I am in a situation where she HAS to have a sit stay for something. So training starts tomorrow :D . I have never had a dog before that would not stay in a sit and it has never bothered me that she doesn't...until now .

She must have read this thread over night. Her sit stays were perfect this morning...for as long as I wanted .

[Vickie]

I think I worked out why she was so good...I used a tug for reward. Bring out the tennis ball & her sit stays don't exist again.

She doesn't break...she just drops. She has been dropping for a tennis ball for 6 years, it's going to be a hard habit to break in a couple of weeks.

[caffy]

I think I worked out why she was so good...I used a tug for reward. Bring out the tennis ball & her sit stays don't exist again.

She doesn't break...she just drops. She has been dropping for a tennis ball for 6 years, it's going to be a hard habit to break in a couple of weeks.

Are you entering an obedience trial???????

Snazzy will pop up into a sit from a drop stay if I turn on the hose....guess what we've been doing??

[Kavik]

Vickie - why does she suddenly need to have a sit stay?