mr.mister Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Hi there, again. I was just wondering, as breeders, what you offer to your puppy purchasers in way of support for the life of the dog re:health etc? - A lifetime genetic health guarantee? - Taking back the puppy at any time in its life if need be? - Moral support and generally a wealth of info so to speak for any questions? On top of this, I'll give you a scenario. (completely made up, has never happened to me) You sell a pup to.. Joe. You sell it with proof that parents are health tested for hips/any genetic diseases in the breed/what have you, and you offer a genetic health guarantee. A while down the track, pup becomes ill and after tests it is apparent that what pup has is an inherited condition that was not anticipated or tested for, perhaps because it wasn't known to occur commonly in the breed? Sorry, I don't know much about this so bear with me, but I'm sure you get the idea! Joe contacts you and shows vet cert showing inheritable disease. What do you do? Would you: -offer to take pup back/offer refund/replace? -help to pay for vet fees? - any other support? Again, just me being curious George and taking advantage of the fact that experienced people such as yourselves frequent a forum such as this. I hope you don't mind. Any answers and opinions are duly taken and appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I think many would first seek a second opinion from their own vet or a vet of their choosing before deciding on a course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mister Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Okay, well in that case, for the sake of this scenario, say they have done that and the results are confirmed. Thanks for the heads up on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaJ Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) Oh well - we can't test for everything can we. Otherwise we'd be doing a'hole testing as a part of prenups! Edited March 17, 2010 by AmandaJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mister Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Definately true - I am simply asking what one would do in such a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaJ Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Testing is breed specific In some cases it can even be line specific Get the books out and learn the genetics of inherited diseases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mister Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Alright, no worries. Thanks anyway guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellabella Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Alright, no worries. Thanks anyway guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Alex I would like to offer you perhaps a little more than what has currently been answered. At least from my perspective as an owner, breeder and trainer. Common sense applies in this type of scenario. As a breeder we can offer a pup tested for any known hereditary diseases/conditions. Perhaps to make things more defined the breeder will offer the new owner a contract that states as such. If there turns out to be a 'new' or 'unexpected' condition then the breeder is not obligated to do anything as far as refunding or replacing pups. For example: a dog might turn out to be diabetic, or subject to fits which 'might' be hereditory, lifestyle affected, or just by chance. It is the breeders responsibility to provide a healthy, well adjusted pup. that means that the parents are good examples of the breed physically and also mentally stable - as well as tested for any known problems. The pups should then be raised in a clean environment with the space to explore both inside and outside - breeders should also ensure that pups have interaction with different people and other dogs - Thus setting pup up for a start in life in a human's world. Personally I do not ever intend giving a lifelong guarantee on a pup I have bred. After all a pup is a pup till about 6 months or so, after that it is now a dog and a totally different prospective with different issues as far as rehoming or the health. In saying that if there are issues then I would encourage the owners to get in touch with me. I want to know if there are likely problems with any bloodlines and perhaps I can help depending upon the circumstances. Remember too that the problems might be in the stud dogs lines and not my bitches. If I've paid $1,000-1,500 for a stud fee then I might want to take issue with the stud dog owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Guess the answer would be one of the 3 options you have put in your post, depending on which one was most suitable. After consultation with their vet & my vet of course. Bigger issue I think is how the condition would affect the dogs quality of life & if you & the owner have varying opinions on what & how much should/could be done. If you both disagree it gets complicated. Also it is their dog now, not yours. Interesting question really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulldust Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 We offer lifetime support and will take the dog back anytime. Refund or replacement guarantee up to 1yr of age for any problem that was not preventable. For exceptional homes we replace their dog's at no cost no matter how it died or at what age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellabella Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 We offer lifetime support and will take the dog back anytime.Refund or replacement guarantee up to 1yr of age for any problem that was not preventable. For exceptional homes we replace their dog's at no cost no matter how it died or at what age. I agree totally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojath Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 (edited) I offer a full 30 day health guarantee (excluding 'accidents'/injuries) where I will cover all veterinary care costs up to the purchase price of the puppy. I offer a lifetime guarantee against hereditary conditions, where I will replace a pup or cover veterinary expenses up to the purchase price of the puppy. We do retain the right for any complaint to receive a second opinion from our own Veterinarian or a Veterinarian of our choice, but we cover all transport costs relating to this. There are obviously risks involved in offering such a guarantee - you never really know what can be lurking, but I see it like this: Your puppy buyers have chosen to buy from YOU because you claim to breed healthy pups and undertake relevant health testing. They have been responsible and educated enough to buy from a responsible, registered breeder, so as a breeder I need to be equally responsible for what I have bred and sold. The day could come where numerous pups from my kennels could display some hereditary disease and I would then be responsible for paying a LOT of Veterinary fees, but I believe if you're not in a position to step up at such times, then you really shouldn't be breeding in the first place. We also REQUIRE that should circumstances etc change and a particular dog needs to be re-homed, that it is returned to us. Edited to add our exclusion. Edited March 18, 2010 by jerojath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mister Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Wow! Thanks for all the great replies. Thankyou very much, I do appreciate and it really helps me learn. Curiosity sated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellabella Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I offer a full 30 day health guarantee (excluding 'accidents'/injuries) where I will cover all veterinary care costs up to the purchase price of the puppy.I offer a lifetime guarantee against hereditary conditions, where I will replace a pup or cover veterinary expenses up to the purchase price of the puppy. We do retain the right for any complaint to receive a second opinion from our own Veterinarian or a Veterinarian of our choice, but we cover all transport costs relating to this. There are obviously risks involved in offering such a guarantee - you never really know what can be lurking, but I see it like this: Your puppy buyers have chosen to buy from YOU because you claim to breed healthy pups and undertake relevant health testing. They have been responsible and educated enough to buy from a responsible, registered breeder, so as a breeder I need to be equally responsible for what I have bred and sold. The day could come where numerous pups from my kennels could display some hereditary disease and I would then be responsible for paying a LOT of Veterinary fees, but I believe if you're not in a position to step up at such times, then you really shouldn't be breeding in the first place. We also REQUIRE that should circumstances etc change and a particular dog needs to be re-homed, that it is returned to us. Edited to add our exclusion. Excellent policy - and that is what a good breeder is all about. it is a shame that not all breeders adhere to such policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 The reality is its breed by breed & case by case ,Not set simple answer because one has to weigh up all the scenrios in the situation aswell Our guarantee is also based on the new owners signing there puppy paperwork to follow there side of the deal too so boths sides need to be weighed up & assessed from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mister Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Thanks for the reply showdog I'm just going to post a bit about myself here, copied from my other topic about the entire dogs, just in case anybody is.. curious? about me in any way and wondering why I'm asking all these questions Bottom line is though, I just love to learn and cannot possibly help but take advantage of a thread filled with such knowledgeable people who are passionate about their breeds and what they do. My situation: I own no dogs, but am currently being mentored by two breeders and will hopefully have my first show pup near the end of the year. I'm always full of questions about everything and as I don't always like bombarding my mentors with emails (though I already do lol), so I post on here. Hope that is okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mersonmalinois Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 We sold a healthy puppy to a couple in Florida. The puppy got stomach cancer and went through many treatments and was examined by the top experts here in the USA. He had to be pts last summer at 18 months of age. Of course we were there for the owners via phone & email during diagnosis, treatment and euthanasia. We offered their money back or a replacement puppy. They didn't want either and they thanked us for giving them such a special puppy, even though he got a dreadful illness (which is not common to our breed). Every time we bred a litter since his death (2 litters) we asked them if they would like a new puppy (for free, of course!), but they are not ready. Just because they lost their puppy doesn't mean they have fallen off our radar. I do hope they will eventually be ready for another puppy and we will gladly give them a great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I don't offer a guarentee as I can't second guess mother nature. I do all I can with regards to health testings and finding the right combinations of dogs. After that, the pups leave with 8 weeks worth of insurance and the new owners are encoraged to keep this up. I am there for help and advice and will take back a dog at any age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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