Angry Male Staffy

[Dani M]

hello

i own a 5 year old american staffy with no prior aggression problems towards other dogs. a couple of months ago my girlfriend moved in with me and brought her dogs with her she owns a 10 month old english bull terrier {female} and a 7 month old italian mastiff{male}. first couple of months were fine until my staffy was attacked by a stray dog. since then he has just been starting fights with the other male for no reason. the other day it got really it got really bad so i have had to seperate them i dont want to get rid of any so if i could just get some help i would really appreciate it thankyou

ps both males are not desexed

[KristenLovesLabs]

I'm no expert, but I'd say them being entire has something to do with it. Also, how much do you exercise them? Boredom can easily lead to unwanted behaviour.

Are you planning on breeding or showing them? If not, I'd be making a trip to the vets (for the staffy).

Edited March 17, 2010 by Kristenfaction

[tdierikx]

Is the female entire also? Maybe your boy is sensing her coming into season?

T.

[RallyValley]

I would hold off on desexing the youngsters until you know the recommended age of desexing for the breed, some heavier breeds it is highly recommended to wait until 18 months or older.

The best course of action would be to get a reputable dog behavioust in who can see the interaction and help you make informed decisions.

Keeping them all seperated is probably a good idea.

[Sandra777]

I doubt he's angry and wouldn't be at all surprised if he has now realised these strangers are here to stay so is on edge about the invasion of his territory and life, especially when he is possibly feeling very unsure of himself after being attacked. Not meaning this unkindly but in a good human-dog relationship the dog generally looks upon the human as the one that can protect them from all things (the leader if you like, but in the dog's eyes more like a god-figure, he-who-will-save-us-from-everything). If you accept this view, in your dog's eyes you "failed" to protect him so it could be that he's now thinking you can't protect him from anything so he has to do it himself.

Please get a behaviouralist - 2 bull breeds dogs fighting is a very dangerous situation for man and dog.

[Danois]

Is the bitch desexed?

If not, you are going to have a hell of a hard time ahead - not just over her but if any females nearby come into heat.

I'd desex the stafford and the bitch and leave the mastiff until the critical growth is done.

Hormones probably have a large role in all of this.

Otherwise - behavourist.

[WreckitWhippet]

It's set to get worse, unless you get some professional help.

If you are going to keep entire animals, the best thing you can do, is to build dogs runs and lock them up if you are not home. A fight between those dogs could result in the death of one.

[Starkehre]

Only guessing, but I would say it has little or nothing to do with outside attack and more to do with the Bull Terrier bitch possibly coming into season and the Mastiff just growing out of puppyhood and starting behave and have teestosterone as he would as an adult. Your lad is feeling a slight threat by the Mastiff also being an entire, and he feels he owns the bitch and wants her all to himself, IMO.

Looks like some serious separation is in order here before there is some possible blood shed or fighting.

Mastiff is too young to be desexed IMO, regarding correct growth patterns etc. The bitch could be desexed, but if she is coming into season, then you should wait a couple of months until she is well and truely over the season and in between the next one.

Of course until a professional has an actual look at the dynamics going on there, it is not possible for any of us to make an exact judgement for you.

But, whatever is going on, I would be separating your boy from the others.

And you will need to be vigilent with your bitch coming into season also, as apart from the fighting, there is also the risk of her being mated.

Best of luck.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Please desex all dogs as soon as possible or keep them separate at all times - invest in dog runs as someone has suggested above. Unless you are showing dogs or are a registered breeder, it is best for the dog's health and behaviour in the long term.

Also, if you decide to keep any dogs entire, please don't attempt to take them into a dog park. The undesexed dog may be nice natured but desexed dogs will go for them and they will not be welcome. I've seen it many times in our local park, a dog is set upon for no apparent reason and then you see it - they still have their tackle.

[justin19801]

I can only comment with my own experience.

Are you sure they are fighting? I have two bitches who playfight while the males look on. These 2 bitches are desexed. They need to be separated when you are not around as when one decides to stop and the other continues it can get very bad. Do not let them run together when you are not there.

Desexing may help, more than likely not. Desensitisation in a neutral area, a park is the best way but can take months.

Make sure you exercise the dogs with long walks, a tired dog is a happy dog. Make sure they realise you are the boss by eating first and feeding the dominant dog first (make sure it is the truly dominant dog and not the one you would like to be).

Unfortunately dogs are dogs and you may never be able to trust them alone together.

I would contact other Mastiff and Bull Breed owners to see how they manage the problem. My experience is many behaviourists don't even own dogs. Talk to people with practical experience.

[persephone]

My experience is many behaviourists don't even own dogs. Talk to people with practical experience.

*shakes head*

since then he has just been starting fights with the other male for no reason. the other day it got really it got really bad so i have had to seperate them

You have an established bull breed male

you have an adolescent mastiff ..

you have a female

you have the established dog's territory being invaded..and the human belonging to the older dog being taken over by a female person...

I doubt very much these are play fights- and yes, it will probably get MUCH worse without professional help . The younger dog is now getting his testosterone surge- and will be looking at the older dog thru different eyes.

The older dog will scent/ see the difference in the younger, and react...not in anger, but by instinct.

[poodlefan]

I would contact other Mastiff and Bull Breed owners to see how they manage the problem. My experience is many behaviourists don't even own dogs. Talk to people with practical experience.

Most oncologists don't have cancer. What's your point?

Would you be suggesting that someone who doesn't own a problem dog can't help others resolve problems with theirs?

[BOSSFACE]

Have to agree with most other replies. We had two of our young males...litter brothers and both entire.... that lived fantastically together until we tried introducing a female into the mix. It didn't matter that she wasn't in season...they both wanted to claim her and we ended up not being able to have the males together at all.....with or without the the girl.

[Monah]

I can only comment with my own experience.

Are you sure they are fighting? I have two bitches who playfight while the males look on. These 2 bitches are desexed. They need to be separated when you are not around as when one decides to stop and the other continues it can get very bad. Do not let them run together when you are not there.

Desexing may help, more than likely not. Desensitisation in a neutral area, a park is the best way but can take months.

Make sure you exercise the dogs with long walks, a tired dog is a happy dog. Make sure they realise you are the boss by eating first and feeding the dominant dog first (make sure it is the truly dominant dog and not the one you would like to be).

Unfortunately dogs are dogs and you may never be able to trust them alone together.

I would contact other Mastiff and Bull Breed owners to see how they manage the problem. My experience is many behaviourists don't even own dogs. Talk to people with practical experience.

Playfights that escalate and need separating beacuse they go bad are NOT playfighting.

I strongly suggest YOU get a behaviourist in yourself.

Some great advice here. Please keep the dogs separate until this is sorted, otherwise it could be fatal

Often dogs are OK with 'visitors', but not with 'live ins'. entire boys and a female are going to be a problem. I wish you a good outcome and please protect the animals meanwhile.

[Nekhbet]

My experience is many behaviourists don't even own dogs.

I own 3 and have owned many more. I have also had many ruined dogs given to me to retrain and rehome, from pets to protection dogs. I must have broken the mold.

It can be common in your situation. Your male has had his stable world rocked by being attacked, many male dogs go into overdrive and try to control their surroundings which usually ends up in fights. I think professional help is the way to go, I wouldnt say get rid of the dogs at all it comes down to how much training you're willing to invest as well as management.

At your AmStaffs age desexing will do very little unless his problems are from a testosterone overload ... since his behavior has been fine so far I see no reason to assume this, he's acting like an average entire male bull breed from what I can see. The Corso is coming up in age which he could see as a bit of a threat hence the picking (although not seeing the dogs it is not to say that the corso is not partially to blame in starting fights) You do have an explosive mix of 2 entire males and an entire bitch. I have a similar situation at home with 3 large, strong dogs and I make it work but it takes work.

If you need a hand feel free to run me an email, I'm in Sydney this weekend but free from Tuesday onwards.

Make sure they realise you are the boss by eating first and feeding the dominant dog first (make sure it is the truly dominant dog and not the one you would like to be).

I dont always eat first, in fact I dont eat at all in the morning and all my dogs get fed first. I dont elevate any dog to the top they're all treated equally under the same rules and they know where the boundries are and what happens if they cross them. Eating first and elevating one of the males in this instance will do little, in fact you're liable to create bigger fights if the males consider themselves evenly matched - a still virile, fit AmStaff and an up and coming Corso male. With this you're better to teach the dogs the owner is the ultimate top dog and they're not to put a toe out of line or else. Reward the good, give a consequence for the bad.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Nekhbet

[Cosmolo]

What Nekhbet said. You do need to get some professional help sooner rather than later.

Many behaviourists own dogs and many have owned dogs but perhaps don't have a current one for a variety of reasons. I have 5!

[justin19801]

I would contact other Mastiff and Bull Breed owners to see how they manage the problem. My experience is many behaviourists don't even own dogs. Talk to people with practical experience.

Most oncologists don't have cancer. What's your point?

Would you be suggesting that someone who doesn't own a problem dog can't help others resolve problems with theirs?

Comparing an Oncologist (20+ years of study and experience) with a Dog Behaviourist (anyone can hang a shingle with that moniker on their door and quite often doesn't even have a dog). Now I really have READ it all!

You can pay $300 an hour or approach registered breeders with the breeds involved who have had to deal with this problem before and are usually more than happy to help. They may even recommend a behaviourist they have used and found to be good value. At the moment from what you've described it sounds to me they are play fighting but make no mistake it will escalate.

Your local CC can give you the numbers of breeders in those breeds.

Good luck and please let us know how it all pans out.

[casowner]

I believe that the OP is planning on showing the mastiff and that the female isn't desexed, until you get the issues sorted I agree that you need to keep them separate or else there may be heartbreak ahead. Speaking to a behaviouralist that can come out and see the behaviours and pack dynamics should really be done sooner rather than later.

Justin I don't understand your comment about behaviouralists, most trainers didn't wake up and decide they wanted to train dogs they were generally animal lovers/owners that have a passion for dog behaviour and modification.

To the OP good luck

From what I know about bull breeds "play fighting" can escalate pretty quickly to the point of injury or death, it is something I would never take lightly especially if the OP says it got so bad that they had to be separated

Edited March 17, 2010 by casowner

[megan_]

I can only comment with my own experience.

Are you sure they are fighting? I have two bitches who playfight while the males look on. These 2 bitches are desexed. They need to be separated when you are not around as when one decides to stop and the other continues it can get very bad. Do not let them run together when you are not there.

Desexing may help, more than likely not. Desensitisation in a neutral area, a park is the best way but can take months.

Make sure you exercise the dogs with long walks, a tired dog is a happy dog. Make sure they realise you are the boss by eating first and feeding the dominant dog first (make sure it is the truly dominant dog and not the one you would like to be).

Unfortunately dogs are dogs and you may never be able to trust them alone together.

I would contact other Mastiff and Bull Breed owners to see how they manage the problem. My experience is many behaviourists don't even own dogs. Talk to people with practical experience.

If you just give the dogs lots of exercise, you will land up with stronger dogs who will do more damage in a fight. Dogs get more tired out if you throw in structured play ans training.

Every behaviourist on here that I know has dogs and has dealt with problem dogs - dogs that have far more issues than the OP describes. I know, I have one of them (not agression but extreme fear). I honestly don't know where I'd be without their (Erny on this forum) help - Lucy's life is sooo much better since I've sought professional help.

To the OP - keep them separate until you can get a professional in. I noticed that you're in Melbourne. You're lucky that there are some great behaviourists here. If you let us know your location, I'm sure someone will be able to help you.

When you first hear prices, you might get a bit of a shock (I had no idea what it cost before I called). But it is the best money I've spent for a long time - it is certainly cheaper that the vet treatment you'll need to pay for if your dog gets injured.

ETA: Justin, Your price of $300/hr seems way off to me. It certainly isn't my experienced. I paid significantly less than that for a 2 hour consult and unlimited email follow-up - and trust me, I've used it A LOT and always got well thought out, detailed responses.

Edited March 17, 2010 by megan_

[poodlefan]

I would contact other Mastiff and Bull Breed owners to see how they manage the problem. My experience is many behaviourists don't even own dogs. Talk to people with practical experience.

Most oncologists don't have cancer. What's your point?

Would you be suggesting that someone who doesn't own a problem dog can't help others resolve problems with theirs?

Comparing an Oncologist (20+ years of study and experience) with a Dog Behaviourist (anyone can hang a shingle with that moniker on their door and quite often doesn't even have a dog). Now I really have READ it all!

You can pay $300 an hour or approach registered breeders with the breeds involved who have had to deal with this problem before and are usually more than happy to help. They may even recommend a behaviourist they have used and found to be good value. At the moment from what you've described it sounds to me they are play fighting but make no mistake it will escalate.

Your local CC can give you the numbers of breeders in those breeds.

Good luck and please let us know how it all pans out.

Why would you expect a breeder with potentially no experience in behavioural issues to become involved in resolving aggression issues for dogs they haven't bred??? What makes you think every breeder of these breeds has practical experience with aggression anyway? The liability issues alone should be enough to make any breeder keep their mouth firmly shut.

The issue with any professional you call on for advice is not whether or not they've got personal experience of the issue, but whether they've been able to practically asisst other people to resolve it. You don't need to own an aggressive dog to sort out dog aggro in other homes. One good behaviourist I know has had dogs but doesn't at the moment because her practice is too time consuming (in her opinion) to do justice to a dog in her own home.

Serious issues require qualified professional help. Sorting the wheat from the chaff as far as behaviourists go (and some do have years of study and experience) can be done. A decent professional could probably be identified by the OP asking here. Sometimes $300 an hour beats $$$$$ in vet bills anyway and we are talking about large powerful breeds here. $300 an hour should also buy you someone who carries professional indemnity insurance - very important in this line of work.

Don't go advising the OP to take a course of action that is doomed to failure. CC's should not be handing out breeders phone numbers to people on the pretext you propose anyway.

Edited March 17, 2010 by poodlefan