Bubitty Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Hi Guys I am a bit confuddled! This is going to be ranting to bear with me. How do you guys balance training with everyday life with your dog? I initially started training Bitty at about 8.5 weeks purely out of the fear that if I didn’t she would grow up to be naughty. I don’t know much about training and everything has been done basically to stop her from wanting to chew up my stuff or bark etc. So we spent heaps of time learning to do stuff! However lately it appears that she seems to have more potential than I bargained for. I really enjoy training and playing with her and would like to continue but when I read the threads on here I feel REALLY intimidated with all the theories and principles. Everything seems so disciplined. All of you seem really disciplined! She’s a gundog and a great fetcher. Yesterday I ventured onto a message board with all this working gundogs training stuff and I was blown away! So much theory and……………stuff! I guess my question is, if I were to work with her and get her to do the really hard gundoggy stuff, will I need to make lifestyle adjustments? I am torn as I enjoy training her and OH thinks that we would have a lot of fun giving her a chance to do what she was bred to do but on the other hand I wonder if I would have to buckle down and treat her differently if I was to successfully train her to work properly. For eg I don’t think you can fluff around and still have a good obedience dog! I want to work with her and maybe compete formally but I’d still like to fluff around! Gosh I hope this makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) Why do you think you would need to treat her differently? The folk I know with gundogs who compete in gundog trials still treat their dogs as pets. Yes, when they are training, they require the dog to focus but other than that, they are indistinguishable (apart from being obedient and fit) from any other dog at the dog club. Some trainers use aversives but not all. The biggest lifestyle change required would be that of time.. to attend training seminars, train and compete. Edited March 17, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) You don't need to know all the theory, some of us just find it really interesting I don't think you will need to treat her any differently. The only thing you may find is that the work you have done on manners etc may conflict with some foundation work for competition. Of course it all depends on how seriously you want to take it anyway and what your goals are. Day to day training doesn't have to take up that much more time, you can do most things (apart from tracking) in small bursts. Going to classes, seminars and competing does take up more time. Edited for sense Edited March 17, 2010 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubitty Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 I honestly don’t know why I think that PF! I think its because I read the threads on here and you all sound really serious about what you do and I read about this principle and that principle. It makes me think that I can’t just had my dog a cupcake when I feel like it because it would have repercussions with training as it conflicts with some principle or other! There are seminars??? What happens at seminars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Seminars are usually given by well known and respected trainers in the field, normally about a specific topic or type of training. For example I went to a seminar on training contact obstacles for agility, and one by a different trainer on instructing classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) You go to seminars to listen, learn, watch and widen your horisons. And if you learned something you might want to try it on your dog. Ive been to seminar about all sorts of subjects: tips of obedience rings, training in drive, handlers seminar where you work with unknown dogs, bite work seminars, every day behaviours semianars. Often stuff is posted here about something upcoming, watch this section and choose if you want to go or not. When you say - she can do all the gundog stuff - that is pretty involved sport, why not start with basic obedience competitions or agility? Edited March 17, 2010 by MonElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) I honestly don’t know why I think that PF! I think its because I read the threads on here and you all sound really serious about what you do and I read about this principle and that principle.It makes me think that I can’t just had my dog a cupcake when I feel like it because it would have repercussions with training as it conflicts with some principle or other! There are seminars??? What happens at seminars? Nearly all forms of dog sports have seminars where a visiting trainer gives presentations and works with you on issues relating to the sport. They're usually a combination of education and skill building. I know that NSW does some intro to retrieving days (only from hearing FHRP talk about them) at Erskine Park. People do take their sports seriously (you need to if you want to succeed) but that doesn't mean that they don't have a sense of humour about it. However I think anyone will tell you that a fair bit of effort is required to do well. Those who want to play at it, don't tend to stay with it. People have varying degrees of gung ho ness but provided you're prepared to try and respect that others do take it seriously most will help. Turn up in a pink dress and high heels to a gundog day and baby talk your dog and eyebrows will raise. Most of these activities have a 'look' and jargon that goes with them.. but show me one that doesn't!! For a Golden Retriever, competition obedience should be seriously considered. They are in the top breeds for the sport. It's a lot more accessible than retrieving for an urban dweller too. I would suggest that joining a dog club that trains for and conducts obedience trials would be very good launching point. Edited March 17, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Goldies are definitely in the top for obedience! And given what you've said about her liking toys with some work she should do nicely at it Training and competing is a learning curve too, there are many paths to the same end in all sports, listening, watching and learning from the top people helps to give you an idea on the more popular methods for teaching an exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 No need to start treating your dog any differently :D . My dogs are family pets first and foremost and training is our recreation I don't have a gun dog so can't speak for that type of training but I have friends who are very successful at retrieving trials and they treat their dogs as members of the family. My O C (which can also stand for Occassionally Clever ) shares the couch with me at night and is at my feet as I type. Hi GuysI am a bit confuddled! This is going to be ranting to bear with me. How do you guys balance training with everyday life with your dog? I initially started training Bitty at about 8.5 weeks purely out of the fear that if I didn’t she would grow up to be naughty. I don’t know much about training and everything has been done basically to stop her from wanting to chew up my stuff or bark etc. So we spent heaps of time learning to do stuff! However lately it appears that she seems to have more potential than I bargained for. I really enjoy training and playing with her and would like to continue but when I read the threads on here I feel REALLY intimidated with all the theories and principles. Everything seems so disciplined. All of you seem really disciplined! She’s a gundog and a great fetcher. Yesterday I ventured onto a message board with all this working gundogs training stuff and I was blown away! So much theory and……………stuff! I guess my question is, if I were to work with her and get her to do the really hard gundoggy stuff, will I need to make lifestyle adjustments? I am torn as I enjoy training her and OH thinks that we would have a lot of fun giving her a chance to do what she was bred to do but on the other hand I wonder if I would have to buckle down and treat her differently if I was to successfully train her to work properly. For eg I don’t think you can fluff around and still have a good obedience dog! I want to work with her and maybe compete formally but I’d still like to fluff around! Gosh I hope this makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) Bub when it comes down to it, theories and principles are how skills and knowledge are communicated and passed from one trainer to another and how trainers figure out what methods will be used on their dogs. These are common to all forms of learning. A lot of the jargon is shorthand speak for principles or words that are frequently used by those within the sport. No need to be intimidated by it. The same sorts of principles and jargon exist in all pursuits. Agility nuts talking about RFPs and rear crossing is no different to cooks talking about rouxs and basting. Edited March 17, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 If you jump on to a gundog forum it's a bit like being parachuted into a foreign country where you don't speak the language Actually talking to someone who does it - and who knows you are a beginner - is a very different thing, which is partly why I suggested that you might like to contact the working gundog club (the other reason is that any of them would kill for a young pup who will retrieve 10 items in a row with little in the way of formal training!) Unless you have plans to attend formal shoots or compete in open tests I wouldn't worry too much about raising Bitty as a working gundog. My Goldie is 9.5 years old, he's spent his whole life playing fetch at the beach and tug when he comes back with the stick. I've broken every single rule in the book every day for 9.5 years. I started re-training him just last month, and I plan to compete in a beginner trial next month. One thing I've learned about dogs is that if you're taking things too seriously they will knock you off your perch every time ;-) We just have fun with it, I throw a few dummies (seriously, just 4 or 5) after our walk each day or work on something like stop and sit to the whistle. It's a real pleasure for both of us, his jaw chatters with anticipation sometimes, and this is after a 45min walk beforehand. I've spoken to some of the people at the gundog club here and they are fully supportive of my modest and, honestly, rather unlikely goals and have offered no end of assistance. You'll find it's the same with many obedience clubs too, if that ends up being your preference. We all have to start somewhere and anyone worth talking to or listening to will realise, through their own experience, we all have to start at the beginning. Are you still following Sue Ailsby's Training Levels? I don't think you can get a better introduction to the practical application of positive reinforcement training than that. Sue has put just about every conceivable title on some of her previous dogs with just a little bit of specific training after they have completed the Levels foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 There are all different levels on how you can treat your sports dog. You could keep it in a run and only let it out for work. No playing with other dogs etc. It is up to each person to decide what they want to do. I am careful not to devalue commands in every day life. E.G. I don't call the dogs for a bath, they are not going to come as they hate baths and this could devalue the come command. I don't tell them to sit and then go off and leave them without releasing them, that could devalue the stay. The biggest change is time. It takes time to go to training and comps. I don't know about the dog's lifestyle changing but mine did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'm training my two for competition obedience but first and foremost they're my companions and walking buddies. Build you relationship first, if training breaks down you'll always have your relationship . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubitty Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Aiden I googled the working gundog club to try and find a phone number which was how I landed in the forum and was stunned! Yup I am still following that website with all the levels. I definitely would like to do more with her! I guess my next step is to take her to formal obedience and see if she will work in public with all the other dogs and distractions around. She works in an empty park but who knows! I'll give both of us a chance and see where it leads us and see if I have discipline and commitment to this type of activity! PF: I feel much better when you talk about rouxs and basting! Now thats my kind of language! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 My dogs are companions first and foremost... The training is just something the dogs and I both enjoy doing together. I think half of why they do well in their training is because it's fun for both of us and that involves a lot of mucking around! I don't think you have to treat training seriously to have well trained dogs - just as long as you're consistent and make time for training! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubitty Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Ohhh I just found the right link with the phone number to Working Gundog Club in NSW. Err what should I say to them? Just ask about Bitty's tugging predicament and fetching etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Just tell them you are interested and would like to come see Bub . You know how fanatical I am, and you also know how much my dogs are pets first and foremost . Bit can still have her scrummies from mum just for being too darned cute . I think we all started out just like you did. 6 years ago, I'd never heard of agility, 5 years ago I wanted to 'give it a go' but mainly wanted to take my dog to school so that it would be social and he wouldn't tear the house down. Now look at me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubitty Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Just tell them you are interested and would like to come see Bub . You know how fanatical I am, and you also know how much my dogs are pets first and foremost . Bit can still have her scrummies from mum just for being too darned cute . I think we all started out just like you did. 6 years ago, I'd never heard of agility, 5 years ago I wanted to 'give it a go' but mainly wanted to take my dog to school so that it would be social and he wouldn't tear the house down. Now look at me At least you are animal-ish though!!! I don't even seem like the type who should have dogs!!!! Its a miracle my breeder sold me anything at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) Ohhh I just found the right link with the phone number to Working Gundog Club in NSW.Err what should I say to them? Just ask about Bitty's tugging predicament and fetching etc? Ah, no. Tell them you have a young Golden Retriever who seems to show some apptitude for retrieving (bear in mind that what working gundogs do for a "retrieve" makes anything that happens in a backyard look rather tame) and that you're wondering if they have any introduction or training days for beginners coming up. They probably won't be too interested in problem solving for anything but working retrieves IMO. Bear in mind that tugging is not something you'd want in a dog that's meant to retrieve birds and bunnies, returning them to hand without mouthing them and surrendering without tugging. What they will be interested in is assisting you in determining whether your gundog shows any true apptitude for the function she was bred for and if she does, to develop it. Gundgog folk always seem keen in adding new blood to the ranks of those who participate in their sports. It would also be worth your while to actually attend a retrieving trial (I'd be leaving the dogs at home) or a gundog working test. I haven't seen a retrieving trial but bear in mind that retrieving from water is part of what is required of a dog. Edited March 17, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 At least you are animal-ish though!!! I don't even seem like the type who should have dogs!!!! Its a miracle my breeder sold me anything at all Yes - i plan to talk to her about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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