Overbite In Puppy?

[mrs tornsocks]

Hi there, totally understand your situation, we were first time puppy buyers and found ourselves in this situation but AFTER he came home. It's great the breeder forewarned you. Our lab boy has / had an overbite. His story:-

- we got him at 8 weeks, went to puppy school at 9 weeks and the instructor noticed his overbite. We hadn't, we're novice owners. It was at least 15-20mm. We contacted the breeder, she claimed she didn't know about it (she was also inexperienced), litter had had vet checks at 7 weeks, he /she apparently didn't notice it.

- obviously we found it very hard to believe that it would grow quickly in a short period of time (ie from vet check to puupy school, 3 weeks or so), even though puppies do grow quickly

- spoke to our vet, he told us to keep an eye on it, but to wait until his adult teeth came in ... and that corrective surgery is available (involves breaking the dogs jaw under anesthetic apparently )

- breeder offered to take him back, which of course we could not do as we'd already fallen head over heels. We agreed together that she would pay for any surgery or vet bills that were required to get him HEALTHY or to ensure he had no problems down the track, and we got this in writing. He was never going to be a show dog and was / is on limited register so we're totally cool with that.

- the OB has never given him any problems. He is just about to turn one, his teeth are great, it has self corrected quite a bit (probably now around 8mm), but we are not desexing him until around 14-18 months to give him a little more time to grow and hopefully correct more. He loves his bones and chicken frames and of course, being a lab, pretty much any food on offer

Are you set on this particular pup ? Is there another you can pick ? If you really want this one, I would ask the breeder for written committment that any vet procedures associated directly with correcting the overbite, or problems associated be covered by her/him. Even though, if push came to shove, it may be hard to get the money out of them, at least they know you're serious and concerned about the potential problems down the track.

If you're not set on the pup .. honestly ? I would wait for another litter that has no obvious problems. Of course you can never predict what will happen, and clearly I would never EVER give back my beautiful Archie of the Overbite, but it it's something you could avoid, I would.

And it also gives you time to do some more hunting around and research; as you've probably discovered there is so much to learn about the world of purebred pups and breeding.

Good luck !!!

edited to add a couple of recent shots of my boy ... and that you cannot notice it at all unless you pry his mouth open

Edited March 17, 2010 by mrs tornsocks

[whippets]

Sometimes it can look like an overbite but when the adult teeth come in it then meets at a correct scissor bite (if the breed calls for a correct scissor).

I don't think overbites are a big issue as far as quality of life is concerned. I had a racing grey that was overshot by almost 3cm's (which is a lot) and she looked like a shark . She had no problems eating/chewing

[poodlefan]

Mrs T:

- the OB has never given him any problems. He is just about to turn one, his teeth are great, it has self corrected quite a bit (probably now around 8mm), but we are not desexing him until around 14-18 months to give him a little more time to grow and hopefully correct more. He loves his bones and chicken frames and of course, being a lab, pretty much any food on offer

If he's only 12 months, you might get a bit more growth from the lower jaw.. jaws still tend to be developing after 12 months.

[mrs tornsocks]

Mrs T:

- the OB has never given him any problems. He is just about to turn one, his teeth are great, it has self corrected quite a bit (probably now around 8mm), but we are not desexing him until around 14-18 months to give him a little more time to grow and hopefully correct more. He loves his bones and chicken frames and of course, being a lab, pretty much any food on offer

If he's only 12 months, you might get a bit more growth from the lower jaw.. jaws still tend to be developing after 12 months.

Correct ... hopefully it will continue to improve, which is why we're

- the OB has never given him any problems. He is just about to turn one, his teeth are great, it has self corrected quite a bit (probably now around 8mm), but we are not desexing him until around 14-18 months to give him a little more time to grow and hopefully correct more. He loves his bones and chicken frames and of course, being a lab, pretty much any food on offer

Edited March 17, 2010 by mrs tornsocks

[nicolatu]

Hi there, totally understand your situation, we were first time puppy buyers and found ourselves in this situation but AFTER he came home. It's great the breeder forewarned you. Our lab boy has / had an overbite. His story:-

- we got him at 8 weeks, went to puppy school at 9 weeks and the instructor noticed his overbite. We hadn't, we're novice owners. It was at least 15-20mm. We contacted the breeder, she claimed she didn't know about it (she was also inexperienced), litter had had vet checks at 7 weeks, he /she apparently didn't notice it.

- obviously we found it very hard to believe that it would grow quickly in a short period of time (ie from vet check to puupy school, 3 weeks or so), even though puppies do grow quickly

- spoke to our vet, he told us to keep an eye on it, but to wait until his adult teeth came in ... and that corrective surgery is available (involves breaking the dogs jaw under anesthetic apparently )

- breeder offered to take him back, which of course we could not do as we'd already fallen head over heels. We agreed together that she would pay for any surgery or vet bills that were required to get him HEALTHY or to ensure he had no problems down the track, and we got this in writing. He was never going to be a show dog and was / is on limited register so we're totally cool with that.

- the OB has never given him any problems. He is just about to turn one, his teeth are great, it has self corrected quite a bit (probably now around 8mm), but we are not desexing him until around 14-18 months to give him a little more time to grow and hopefully correct more. He loves his bones and chicken frames and of course, being a lab, pretty much any food on offer

Are you set on this particular pup ? Is there another you can pick ? If you really want this one, I would ask the breeder for written committment that any vet procedures associated directly with correcting the overbite, or problems associated be covered by her/him. Even though, if push came to shove, it may be hard to get the money out of them, at least they know you're serious and concerned about the potential problems down the track.

If you're not set on the pup .. honestly ? I would wait for another litter that has no obvious problems. Of course you can never predict what will happen, and clearly I would never EVER give back my beautiful Archie of the Overbite, but it it's something you could avoid, I would.

And it also gives you time to do some more hunting around and research; as you've probably discovered there is so much to learn about the world of purebred pups and breeding.

We are not sure of the extent of the Overbite yet. I replied to the breeder's email last night at about 11pm and hopefully she will call me at about 4pm in the afternoon. When we contacted the breeder, she only had 1 puppy left but the puppies were not chosen for which homes to go to yet. Therefore i don't think I have a choice (I could ask later). I will ask for a health guarantee from the breeder and ask more about overbite severity. For my GF and I, we just don't want the puppy to need surgery to fix it up when he is older. I will discuss about all the possible options later on with the breeder.

Sorry about the mistake. I misread the email she sent to me. She said the puppies had their NEEDLES and microchipped done on the same day. Does that mean they are vaccinated?

[macka]

What bothers me is why would an ethical breeder vaccinate puppies at 6 weeks ?

I think you'll find that plenty of "ethical breeders" vaccinate at six weeks.

Nicolatu - I have nothing to add on the overbite just that you should discuss all of your concerns with the breeder openly and if you feel uncomfortable with their response I would leave it and find another breeder.

[oakway]

What bothers me is why would an ethical breeder vaccinate puppies at 6 weeks ?

Don't a lot of folk give their pups their first vaccs at 6 weeks?

No........proven fact that they do not work in all pups under 8 weeks.

Edited March 17, 2010 by oakway

[WreckitWhippet]

breaking a jaw and corrective surgery for something as simple as an overbite, in my opinion is overkill.

Even in the worst of situations and the bite ends up with inverted canines digging into the roof of the mouth or in the gums. Simply grinding off the tips of the teeth will suffice.

I've seen the most shocking overshot and undershot jaws, with massive gaps. Owners need to keep a bit more of an eye on the teeth and provide plenty of raw meaty bones, just to make sure that plaque doesn't build up but other than that, they live just like any dog, without the need for expensive and unecessary surgery.

Edited March 17, 2010 by SBT123

[Crisovar]

What bothers me is why would an ethical breeder vaccinate puppies at 6 weeks ?

Don't a lot of folk give their pups their first vaccs at 6 weeks?

The majority of Vaccine manufacturers are still recommending vaccinating from 6wks.

Many Breeders who have researched the issue choose to wait till later, but I wouldn't call those that don't unethical.

[poodlefan]

What bothers me is why would an ethical breeder vaccinate puppies at 6 weeks ?

Don't a lot of folk give their pups their first vaccs at 6 weeks?

No........proven fact that they do not work in all pups under 8 weeks.

I was talking about breeder practice, not vaccine efficacy Oakway. Jean Dodds, noting that most pups are rehomed at 8 weeks, recommends first vaccs at 7 weeks. Not ideal but does offer some protection in those early days.

The really unethical breeders don't vaccinate at all.

[oakway]

What bothers me is why would an ethical breeder vaccinate puppies at 6 weeks ?

Don't a lot of folk give their pups their first vaccs at 6 weeks?

No........proven fact that they do not work in all pups under 8 weeks.

I was talking about breeder practice, not vaccine efficacy Oakway. Jean Dodds, noting that most pups are rehomed at 8 weeks, recommends first vaccs at 7 weeks. Not ideal but does offer some protection in those early days.

The really unethical breeders don't vaccinate at all.

I personally have never heard Jean Dodds ever say vaccinate at 7 weeks. She told me when speaking to her personally to go with the 8 weeks.

If you purchased a puppy that was not vaccinated would you not call the breeder unethical???????

Breeder practices are in question....if the puppy leaves the breeders property un vaccinated.

It can be a waste of time and money if the vaccine does not work.

Yes I was one of the breeders that vaccinated at 6 weeks weeks till I realised the puppies I let go where not realy vaccinated at all.

[oakway]

If you are only getting a pet puppy would it realy matter if the pups mouth was a bit off.

If purchasing for show, no way would you purchase it.

Breeders do sell the ones with off bites or gay tails, to short, to long as pet puppies.

[macka]

What bothers me is why would an ethical breeder vaccinate puppies at 6 weeks ?

Don't a lot of folk give their pups their first vaccs at 6 weeks?

No........proven fact that they do not work in all pups under 8 weeks.

I was talking about breeder practice, not vaccine efficacy Oakway. Jean Dodds, noting that most pups are rehomed at 8 weeks, recommends first vaccs at 7 weeks. Not ideal but does offer some protection in those early days.

The really unethical breeders don't vaccinate at all.

Yes I was one of the breeders that vaccinated at 6 weeks weeks till I realised the puppies I let go where not realy vaccinated at all.

So you're saying you used to be an unethical breeder?

There's a difference between unethical and uneducated, and I don't think you can really even blame breeders for being the latter, given that so many vets still seem to recommend first vaccs at between 6-8 weeks.

[oakway]

What bothers me is why would an ethical breeder vaccinate puppies at 6 weeks ?

Don't a lot of folk give their pups their first vaccs at 6 weeks?

No........proven fact that they do not work in all pups under 8 weeks.

I was talking about breeder practice, not vaccine efficacy Oakway. Jean Dodds, noting that most pups are rehomed at 8 weeks, recommends first vaccs at 7 weeks. Not ideal but does offer some protection in those early days.

The really unethical breeders don't vaccinate at all.

Yes I was one of the breeders that vaccinated at 6 weeks weeks till I realised the puppies I let go where not realy vaccinated at all.

So you're saying you used to be an unethical breeder?

There's a difference between unethical and uneducated, and I don't think you can really even blame breeders for being the latter, given that so many vets still seem to recommend first vaccs at between 6-8 weeks.

To Right, I was just like a lot of the others.

But the minute the information was available on new protocols, I had enough nouse to change my vaccinatian protocol.

Edited March 17, 2010 by oakway

[poodlefan]

I personally have never heard Jean Dodds ever say vaccinate at 7 weeks. She told me when speaking to her personally to go with the 8 weeks.

If you purchased a puppy that was not vaccinated would you not call the breeder unethical???????

Breeder practices are in question....if the puppy leaves the breeders property un vaccinated.

It can be a waste of time and money if the vaccine does not work.

Yes I was one of the breeders that vaccinated at 6 weeks weeks till I realised the puppies I let go where not realy vaccinated at all.

At the seminar I attended she said 8 weeks was preferable BUT if pups were to be rehomed at 8 weeks, then a 7 week vacc was the way to go.

[nicolatu]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies! I read everything once again and found out that most of you say that if the overbite is not too serious then it shouldn't affect the puppy. How much is too much? More than 5mm? More than 10mm?

[twodoggies2001]

If you are only getting a pet puppy would it realy matter if the pups mouth was a bit off.

If purchasing for show, no way would you purchase it.

Breeders do sell the ones with off bites or gay tails, to short, to long as pet puppies.

I'm sure they do, but personally, I wouldn't buy into a known problem, because, in the owner is left with the ongoing problems if any, and vet bills. If the prospective buyer hasn't interacted with the puppy as yet, and I was that buyer, I would look for another litter. I know the heartache of getting attached to that beautiful little puppy, which takes all of 2 minutes to bond with and have an open pocket for treatment. I must say, that at the time we purchased the puppy, we were unaware of the problem.

[oakway]

I personally have never heard Jean Dodds ever say vaccinate at 7 weeks. She told me when speaking to her personally to go with the 8 weeks.

If you purchased a puppy that was not vaccinated would you not call the breeder unethical???????

Breeder practices are in question....if the puppy leaves the breeders property un vaccinated.

It can be a waste of time and money if the vaccine does not work.

Yes I was one of the breeders that vaccinated at 6 weeks weeks till I realised the puppies I let go where not realy vaccinated at all.

At the seminar I attended she said 8 weeks was preferable BUT if pups were to be rehomed at 8 weeks, then a 7 week vacc was the way to go.

Fair enough.

[Lowenhart]

I'm sure they do, but personally, I wouldn't buy into a known problem, because, in the owner is left with the ongoing problems if any, and vet bills. If the prospective buyer hasn't interacted with the puppy as yet, and I was that buyer, I would look for another litter. I know the heartache of getting attached to that beautiful little puppy, which takes all of 2 minutes to bond with and have an open pocket for treatment. I must say, that at the time we purchased the puppy, we were unaware of the problem.

But twodoggies what you end up doing is rewarding the unscrupulous liers and penalise the honest. :/

Bites on puppies, especially in those breeds who's heads do a lot of changing, can go the full spectrum.

I've seen a perfect scissor bite go undershot in 1 week and 3 weeks later be looking overshot.

Granted, there are instances of puppies exhibiting the problem from an early age and it never really improves, but I haven't heard of anyone breaking jaws to fix overbites and any fixing has been done for cosmetic reasons. If the puppy can't eat/drink now, it simply won't thrive or grow.

I would suggest photos be taken and sent so you can see if the jaws are twisted (wry) if you can't go see the pup in question.

[twodoggies2001]

I'm sure they do, but personally, I wouldn't buy into a known problem, because, in the owner is left with the ongoing problems if any, and vet bills. If the prospective buyer hasn't interacted with the puppy as yet, and I was that buyer, I would look for another litter. I know the heartache of getting attached to that beautiful little puppy, which takes all of 2 minutes to bond with and have an open pocket for treatment. I must say, that at the time we purchased the puppy, we were unaware of the problem.

But twodoggies what you end up doing is rewarding the unscrupulous liers and penalise the honest. :/

Bites on puppies, especially in those breeds who's heads do a lot of changing, can go the full spectrum.

I've seen a perfect scissor bite go undershot in 1 week and 3 weeks later be looking overshot.

Granted, there are instances of puppies exhibiting the problem from an early age and it never really improves, but I haven't heard of anyone breaking jaws to fix overbites and any fixing has been done for cosmetic reasons. If the puppy can't eat/drink now, it simply won't thrive or grow.

I would suggest photos be taken and sent so you can see if the jaws are twisted (wry) if you can't go see the pup in question.

Not sure I quite understand your answer about rewarding unscrupulous liars and penalising the honest. Must be one of my senior moments. The pup we bought didn't have the bite problem. His problem was a porto systemic shunt and it was noticed when he was 6 months old. We were involved in buying another pup several years later from another breeder where the entire litter had incorrect bites and we walked away once we were told 2 days before picking up this puppy. That's what the vet advised us to do.