Dogs Playing With Dogs

[Simply Grand]

From what I've observed at the dog park the working breeds - ACDs and Kelpies mainly, we don't seem to have many BCs - do tend stay more focussed on their owners and would rather chase balls than play UNLESS another dog is willing to be their sheep/cow/rabbit so they can chase/herd them.

I've noticed this because Saxon quite likes being the sheep and will run around being chased quite happily. Once he gets tired and stops though they do tend to lose interest and find something else to do.

[corvus]

As the owner of two well socialised dogs that visit the dog park several times a week, there's a lot to be said for having dogs that are just good at dealing with the unpredictability and occasional scariness of unknown dogs. They weren't born that way. They had to learn over time that sometimes crazy things happen and they actually can deal with it and even turn it into a positive outcome. My older boy is just coming up to 2 years and I am finally starting to trust his judgement more than mine about other dogs. It is a beautiful thing to watch when he just knows what to do. He loves to play and is a total social butterfly. It has been encouraged, but he still has a good recall thanks to a lot of practise. My other boy is not as naturally social and can be intimidated by other dogs, but once he realises they aren't going to eat him he's as outgoing as a little dog could be. He is 8 months and has only recently discovered how much fun dogs other than Kivi can be. I am fine with this, and I was fine with it when he didn't want to play with the other dogs. I'm fine with whatever makes him happy.

I think that social play is a great way for dogs to develop a good understanding of their own kind, and therefore reduce anxiety around other dogs. I also think it's great exercise, and some researchers have suggested that it is very important to the development of young animals, particularly social animals. I don't want my dogs to do anything they don't naturally enjoy, but I love that I can take them to a brand new park and just walk them around once on leash to assess the situation before I'm ready to let them off. They never start anything, they always keep out of trouble, and they usually make friends and have a great time.

[kirst_goldens]

I guess i too am a believer in a dog having some dog pack time - ie running with mates at a park or something, having said that i am not into meeting strange / rude dogs as i too have had some bad exp.

I guess for some dogs a human pack is enough and for others its not, its all personality and what they are used to and taught i guess. And at the end of the day u are the dogs pack and get to decide who can play with ur pack, hence why they will often look at u for approval before running off once they here the ok off u go command

i love watching them all run together though magic to watch how they play and interact with one another

[Aidan]

Good question, good discussion.

[JulesP]

That is very nice of Saxon to be a sheepie! :D Very nice indeed!

[Whippetsmum]

Like a few others who have replied, I'd love my dog to be able to have fun with other dogs, it would be great for his confidence, and for mine. More importantly, if I am honest, would be a measure of whether I've done "enough" for him, if he socialises well etc. For me, the problem seems to be finding the well socialised dogs and their owners so that we can learn from them in safety. I have been to the off leash parks, where one bad apple or two (human and canine) spoil it for me, it doesn't match the ideal of happy frolicking dogs, when there's a lot of growling and posturing (human and canine) . There are also quite a few horror stories about people abusing off leash areas- anyone else read about the Pug in Urban Animal? My sister lives inner Sydney and there have been a few attacks in the off leash areas near her.

[megan_]

That is very nice of Saxon to be a sheepie! :D Very nice indeed!

My boy is like this too - he looooves to be chased. He spends a lot of time trying to get other dogs to chase him. Maybe I need to volunteer him for a hearding trial??

[becks]

2) What you plan on doing with the dog. If you are interested in competing in dog sports then you want your dog to tolerate and ignore other dogs and focus on you and the job at hand. You don't want aggression but you don't want the dog leaving the ring to play with friends either!

I guess this is where my head is at.

I don't agree with that reasoning. Guide dogs are expected to work and not go off and play when they want. They are still supposed to have free time and be allowed to play with other dogs if they wish. Training teaches a dog when it is work time and when they can do what they want.

I don't get the rational of not allowing a dog who wants to play, to not be allowed to play, just incase he finds that more interesting then 'work'

[Mas1981]

2) What you plan on doing with the dog. If you are interested in competing in dog sports then you want your dog to tolerate and ignore other dogs and focus on you and the job at hand. You don't want aggression but you don't want the dog leaving the ring to play with friends either!

I guess this is where my head is at.

I don't agree with that reasoning. Guide dogs are expected to work and not go off and play when they want. They are still supposed to have free time and be allowed to play with other dogs if they wish. Training teaches a dog when it is work time and when they can do what they want.

I don't get the rational of not allowing a dog who wants to play, to not be allowed to play, just incase he finds that more interesting then 'work'

Yes I totally agree, look how focused Guide Dogs are, they have a rest day on a sunday and come down to play in a big group to the park i sometimes take my dog to, their trainers obviously feel it does them good to play with other dogs.

[persephone]

Guide dogs , in training when I was doing it had one or two free run days a week- down at the park- several at a time together- racing around, swimming, whatever. I used to thoroughly enjoy those days .... :D

Owners also take their dogs to the beach, to parks, to visit friends with dogs....

[Bjelkier]

I think we do it because it makes them happy and it makes me happy to see them enjoying themselves.

My breed is very social and I dont think it would be fair to them to deny playing.

It teaches them how to interact with other dogs, its fantastic exercise and it tires them out.

I dont allow them to socalise with just anyone however, only dogs I know I can trust and they dont go to dog parks.

[SmoothieGirl]

Sorry I haven't read all of the post, so I apologise if this has already been said.

I think every situation is different....but I believe they are pack animals and should have the opportunity to play with their own kind. We can only be their pack leader to an extent, we don't speak dog and can't get down on our hands and knees and belt round doing those fabulous zoomies with them. Interestingly this hits home with me even more when I see like breeds playing together. My Collie plays really well with an Aussie Sheperd, they are so sweet together and really 'get' each others games. She plays well with all breeds, but its not always as rhythmic and fluid in the play style.

Would we like it if we were segregated from humans, able to see them, say hello, but not truly interact? No I don't think I'm projecting human behaviour onto animals, I just don't presume to think that we humans always know best, especially for another species.

However, if I was concerned about my dog meeting new dogs, then I'd construct it that she could still play but in a much more controlled situation with proven well socialised dogs and probably with dogs of a similar breed or play style. At the end of the day we can't wrap them in cotton wool and they have co-existed for thousands of years developing their own communication style and as long as they are well socialised, they will figure most things out for themselves. And that there is the trick, they need to be well socialised to be able to hold their own in all sorts of situations with other dogs.

Anyways, that's my two cents worth.

Edited March 16, 2010 by SmoothieGirl

[Vickie]

They do have a super time playing with each other though! I haven't found this to effect them wanting to be with me either. The minute I go outside they then focus on me.

That's how I feel. I am happy for my dogs to play, but if I wanted to train & they chose play with another dog over play with me then that would concern me.

[huski]

Megan:

Genuine question: if your dog is a sports dog, do you think it is fair to "deny" it the company of other dogs? You might get better performance, but is it in the dog's best interest (assuming that they are social)? I don't mean that as an attack, I genuinely want to understand.

I think that's arguable anyway.

I always find this topic makes interesting discussion, ever since I read this thread here:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...t=0&start=0

I think a lot of people allow their dogs to develop a higher value for other dogs than the dogs have for them, the owners.

I don't think you need to deny your dog the company of other dogs, for them to see spending time with you as more valuable and exciting.

I'm not interested in having a dog who falls over itself to play with other dogs. Daisy tends to have a relatively neutral value for other dogs, even when off leash with them she doesn't often have much interest in playing with them. She does play with Micha every day and I don't mind that at all. That's not to say that she can't cope with other dogs, any DOLers who have met her can attest that she is so easy going around other dogs and can be totally nonplussed dogs getting in her face.

I like having a dog that would rather train or play with me than play with other dogs.

For any future dogs I have, I will always socialise them with other dogs from puppy hood BUT I will do so in a way that encourages them not to seek other dogs out as The Best Thing Ever. I do believe we can shape our dogs values for things like other dogs depending on how we socialise them in their critical development phase.

[WoofnHoof]

Play serves many purposes in other species as well as humans, whether or not someone thinks it's frivolous doesn't change the fact that it is a valuable social behaviour that has evolved for a reason.

[huski]

Play serves many purposes in other species as well as humans, whether or not someone thinks it's frivolous doesn't change the fact that it is a valuable social behaviour that has evolved for a reason.

I agree play is important but I also think that as owners we often fail to engage our dogs in play. I see many owners who have no idea how to play with their dogs or engage them. Play is not just about playing with other dogs but also with us, their pack leaders.

Although I think play is important I don't think that translates to letting your dog play with every dog they come across nor do I see the benefit in teaching them that playing with other dogs is the best thing in the world.

Edited March 16, 2010 by huski

[blacklabrador]

BUT.........More and more lately I been wondering why is there this fixation with having dogs 'play' with each other? Why do you want your dog to play with other dogs the don't know and what is the benefit in it?

If you saw dogs who enjoy socialising you wouldn't have to ask the question.

I am not fixated on having my dogs play with other dogs but when they do they have an absolute ball so why would I want to withhold this experience? I am interested in providing my dogs with an enjoyable and stimulating life and part of that involves trips to the puppy park which are anticipated with pure joy by my dogs.

[bluecollie]

Well firstly I totally agree >What a great topic!!

But overall I have to agree most with Smoothie girl... and yes thats as an owner of 4 BC's who also share their home with our cattle x mini bull & our Greyhound Polly + currently 5 foster dogs... (Greyhound, 2 x Kelpie pups & 2 Spitz girls)

I do not show or do sports with my dogs nor do I regularly visit dog parks though all my BC's can be off-leash and will immediately do a u-turn as soon as they hear me coo-ee...

My big boy Scooby is my man and its all about Mum (me) yet he has had over 250 rescues go thru his yard, to play with, to sleep with, to eat with as has my big BC girl Jess.

I could not imagine never letting any of them enjoy the company of outside dogs, to me that would be like having my kids schooled at home and never playing with even the neighbours child - how could you expect them to ever know how to interact when they did get the opportunity...

My question is did you ever consider it took you so long to get him to focus only on you due to him simply being 'curious' about the other dogs since he's never allowed near them? I imagine a home schooled childs curiosity would interupt their concentration too if they could hear the neighbours kids over the fence playing and yelling..the fact you may have finally succeeded your goal with him I feel would simply be out of his desire to please you as is in all BC's..

When my dogs run and play they constantly look over their shoulder to see if their needed to be somewhere else yet with me and if they receive no call they continue to play happily - when I do call its like yelling out 'Time to come in, teas up!' to the kids and to me they run..

Jess my big girl is the most disinterested I guess in other dogs- once she meets & greets she may choose to play, she may not, it totally depends on how good the game is the other dog wants to play cause she's been around that many her curiosity is almost zero after 5 minutes so she'll just come plomp down next to me and watch them all whilst enjoying a cuddle..

So my reply to why is.... because its natural!!

Edited March 16, 2010 by bluecollie

[huski]

BUT.........More and more lately I been wondering why is there this fixation with having dogs 'play' with each other? Why do you want your dog to play with other dogs the don't know and what is the benefit in it?

If you saw dogs who enjoy socialising you wouldn't have to ask the question.

I am not fixated on having my dogs play with other dogs but when they do they have an absolute ball so why would I want to withhold this experience? I am interested in providing my dogs with an enjoyable and stimulating life and part of that involves trips to the puppy park which are anticipated with pure joy by my dogs.

Just to play devils advocate, there are lots of things our dogs enjoy doing that we don't always permit them to do. There are plenty of instances I can think of where my dogs would have or are having an enjoyable experience that ive had to stop them from experiencing... Ie raiding the bin, chasing a small animal, scenting when I need to grab them and put them on leash. So I can understand AD asking the question what do we think our dogs get from playing with others - noting that he referrd to dogs your dogs don't know. I'm not keen on dog parks etc and I very rarely let my dogs run with strange dogs.

Edited March 16, 2010 by huski

[Golden Rules]

Honey is very antisocial at the park, its quite rare that she will play with another dog. Im constantly explaining that she thinks she is too much of a lady.

She gets ample opportunity, I just know now that she just doesnt like playing with other dogs .

Deelee, my DOugal is just the same - I always used to think he prefers humans to other dogs but when Duncan came along, they were always playing, both at home and at the park.

I think you will find that when you get your second Goldie ( ) you will see a change in Honey's oblivious behaviour

I think that social play is a great way for dogs to develop a good understanding of their own kind, and therefore reduce anxiety around other dogs. I also think it's great exercise, and some researchers have suggested that it is very important to the development of young animals, particularly social animals.

Agree, and that's why I always let my dogs play with other known dogs.

I like a well balanced dog