Dog Does Not Know Wehen Playing Stops.

[Guest]

I'm not sure if I am in the correct forum, but this falls under behaviour and training, so I thought it best to place it here.

I rescued an 18 months Lhasa Apso dog from the pound. He is friendly, sociable with people and other dogs, on the whole he is a wonderful dog.

BUT, when he wants to play, he plays rough, biting and jumping up. I have been consistent in stopping him jumping by standing up every time he get's excited and starts to jump and not allowing him to bite my hands, but he dives in and bites my feet. This seems to be working well except he then starts to bark. It's a play bark (as his tail is wagging and his bum is in the air), I've tried the ignoring him and not making eye contact, but he will bark constantly for over 45 minutes. I know it is frowned upon, but I've started shutting him out of the room when he get's carried away and letting him back in when he has settled down. And I must say, there is improvement.

He is highly socialized, as loud noises don't faze him and even using a stern voice makes no difference (in fact if you raise your voice he thinks that it's part of play time). The thing that he really responds to are small treats, so I try and keep something with me at all times so I can reward any good behaviour. He is highly intelligent and learns new things very fast, which can be a problem as he won't go out when told because he knows the door will be shut behind him, chasing him just makes it more of a fun game (so chasing is definitely out of the question) for him and more barking. He still does try and attack feet as I walk, but I've found that if I keep him focused on my face then that negates that problem, it's working, but slowly. Can anyone give me any advice. Is shutting him out of the room until he settles down a bad thing?

And with the biting; I know he has got all his adult teeth, he still seems to chew like he's teething. When he chews on the rawhide bones, he really gnaws on them using his back molars. I've made sure he's got enough things to chew so he doesn't chew anything that he shouldn't, which is working well so far. But you know toddlers, he's forever picking something up that doesn't belong to him, but I just take it off him and he doesn't give me any trouble.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

MM

Edited March 16, 2010 by Guest

[Jigsaw]

It's late and my brain is a bit fuzzy so hopefully I make sense, but it sounds like you probably need to really start working on training. I'd be looking at the Triangle of Temptation which is pinned at the top of this part of the forum and also Nothing in Life is Free as a start. There are lots of references to NILIF on the web if you do a search. I'd also be looking at doing clicker training. If putting the dog away is giving you a break and stopping you from getting frustrated it's not a bad thing. Have you tried using a water bottle to interrupt the barking, then reward him when he's quiet. Rather than chasing the dog get the dog to chase you if he likes that sort of play but if it causes biting though have toys ready (in your pocket, stuffed down you pants/bra!!) to throw at him when he gets close to distract him. Keep your commands clear, concise and consistent and persistency pays off!! Dogs explore through their mouths too so often pick things up to explore taste and texture, as long as he's not eating things that could cause problems and is happy to give them up that's OK, sometimes it's remembering to keep things out of reach, just like toddlers. Chewing and licking can help settle and calm a dog too. Remember that when you feel that your dog is particularly naughty any behaviour that is not the naughty behaviour is a good behaviour and can be rewarded!!!

[Aidan]

I know it is frowned upon, but I've started shutting him out of the room when he get's carried away and letting him back in when he has settled down. And I must say, there is improvement.

Not many people that I know would frown on that. It works even better if you mark the unwanted response that caused him to be shut out of the room with a consistent signal - "too bad" or "Uh-oh", kind of like you might use a clicker but to mark a response cost.

The thing that he really responds to are small treats, so I try and keep something with me at all times so I can reward any good behaviour.

That's the other part of the equation and probably where you need to place the most attention. If you can teach him some highly specific things, things like "sit" then you can use those. The idea is to reinforce the things you would like to see more of, the polite, mannerly behaviours such as sit or drop.

Once you have taught him using food, you can then start asking for sits during play, just a very quick sit then reward with more play. This has been termed "doggy zen" - to get what you want, you must first give it up (and do this other thing you've just been asked to do).

[ChristineX]

Hi Micky Moo, I got Duke at 17 months (also rescue, and had been kennelled there) and he was the same regarding voice. As far as he was concerned, if you were speaking it was attention and that was all he wanted. 12 months or so after, he began to take notice of what my voice was acutally saying.

Totally agree with Aiden - keep rewarding the behaviour you want (okay, its not instant results but trust me, you get there), and use playing as rewards for doing what is asked (nothing in life is free, if Duke wants to play with the tug-jug, I get something from him first, ie sit, drop, stand - you get the idea)

Also, try having lots of toys on hand, when he starts biting, say no and give him a toy to chew instead - may work.

On the other hand, shutting the door on Kate when she was going thru her 'bite each finger one at a time' period was the only thing that worked!

Also - join a dog club - if you can manage to keep going, they become a lot of fun - and you never know where you can go from there! At 8, Kate (terrier) is looking as though we may get good enough to go obedience trialling (which could be fun). If you let people know the rough area you live in, people here tend to be able to tell you the nice ones to look at.

ChristineX

[Guest]

Thanx heaps guys, I really needed the reassurance.

I have been using the no reward without effort and it really seems to be working. I also have started put his lead on him when he starts "attacking" playing with the other old dog that we are looking after or if he starts biting feet. I put the leash on him, wait for him to settle down, praise him and tell him what a good dog he is before letting him off the leash and say "Free". This also seems to be working well. My sister has noticed the difference in his behaviour in a matter of 4 weeks since she saw him last. I think I was expecting too much, too fast. I am really determined to put the work into him and make him a pleasure to be around, I really think he's worth it.

Again thanks for the input. If you have any other insights, feel free to comment.

[Mas1981]

Does he have a specific spot or bed where he sleeps inside?? What i did with my lab when he was a puppy is I taught him a command to go to his 'mat' or his 'bed' and when he started trying to zoom around the house or play with me while I was cleaning I gave him his command and clicked and treated when he was doing the right thing. It worked for us, with an older dog, not sure how successful it would be.