The Town Crier

[Tugg Speedman]

Hi Everyone,

I've been following the forums for quite some time now, and I thought it was about time I became a member. During my explorations I've found the content of the forums to be an invaluable source of advice and knowledge for all things canine. Even though I can't remember every post I’ve read, or the authors that wrote them - there's a good chance that each and every one of you have already helped me in some way or another, so thank you!!!

Aside from introducing myself, the main purpose of this post was to ask for some advice on the behavior of our cheeky little English Springer Spaniel. We've had her from 8 weeks old, and she is now close to 5 months old. Overall, she's a great pup and despite the usual adjustment and growing pains associated with bringing up any young animal we think that she is developing quite well. In saying that, a pattern has emerged of late, that initially just annoyed our household, but after the weekend has managed to spread to our neighbors too!

We put her to bed at around 10pm every night, and she sleeps on her bed in the laundry with a baby gate across the doorway. The location of the laundry happens to be almost directly opposite our bedroom, so she can actually see us from through the bars of the baby gate. Anyway, she usually goes to sleep without too much fuss; however, she has a habit of waking between 5am and 6am every morning! She lets us know she's awake through a building crescendo of whines and half-barks. Thinking she has to relieve herself, I get up and let her outside and then go back to bed. If it is still dark - I leave the light on for her until the sun comes up. Up until about two weeks ago this routine worked well - she could do her business outside and play in the yard and I got to go back to sleep! She is not allowed in the house unless we are home, so she is used to the yard and normally has no issue with it, however now when she wakes up and I try to let her out she won't go - well not without a lot of coaxing! When she finally does go outside, it's obvious that she wants to play, but I don't give her that attention because I don't want her to link crying with playing etc.

So I leave her outside and go back to bed, but after a few minutes she starts to cry. Initially, I just ignored it in the hope that she would eventually give up. Most of the time this worked, however on Sunday morning, after waking at 6am she proceeded to cry all morning outside the door until I heard a neighbor yell out "Quieten Down!" at about 7:30am. Now, I'm really paranoid about annoying the neighbors so I’m not sure what to do. Should I supervise her toilet break and then usher her back into the laundry and put up with her crying from inside the house? At least that way the neighbors won't hear her.

Has anyone had any similar experiences and if so how did you resolve them? Also, how does one find that balance between not reinforcing negative behavior and at the same time not annoying the neighbors through excessive noise?

I look forward to your responses!

[poodlefan]

Tugg:

Should I supervise her toilet break and then usher her back into the laundry and put up with her crying from inside the house? At least that way the neighbors won't hear her.

I think that's preferable to her screaming the neighbourhood down.

Have you thought about putting a dog door from the laundry outside and giving her access to the laundry during the day? That way you don't have to get up when she needs to go out.

[Tugg Speedman]

Tugg:

Should I supervise her toilet break and then usher her back into the laundry and put up with her crying from inside the house? At least that way the neighbors won't hear her.

I think that's preferable to her screaming the neighbourhood down.

Have you thought about putting a dog door from the laundry outside and giving her access to the laundry during the day? That way you don't have to get up when she needs to go out.

I wanted to do that, however, we have a white cat who isn't allowed outside during the day. His pink nose and ears put him at a high risk of contracting skin cancer and so a doggy door would also double as a kitty escape hatch!

[poodlefan]

Tugg:

Should I supervise her toilet break and then usher her back into the laundry and put up with her crying from inside the house? At least that way the neighbors won't hear her.

I think that's preferable to her screaming the neighbourhood down.

Have you thought about putting a dog door from the laundry outside and giving her access to the laundry during the day? That way you don't have to get up when she needs to go out.

I wanted to do that, however, we have a white cat who isn't allowed outside during the day. His pink nose and ears put him at a high risk of contracting skin cancer and so a doggy door would also double as a kitty escape hatch!

So what would happen if you kept the door to the laundry closed?

[Tugg Speedman]

So what would happen if you kept the door to the laundry closed?

I suspect that her first reaction would be to scream the house down, and then there is always the chance that i may not hear her when she needs to go to the toilet. We've already had a few relapses of her using the house as a public toilet! At 5 months, she still wouldn't have 100% control of her bladder and i don't want to distress her by inadvertently causing her to soil her sleeping area.

[poodlefan]

So what would happen if you kept the door to the laundry closed?

I suspect that her first reaction would be to scream the house down, and then there is always the chance that i may not hear her when she needs to go to the toilet. We've already had a few relapses of her using the house as a public toilet! At 5 months, she still wouldn't have 100% control of her bladder and i don't want to distress her by inadvertently causing her to soil her sleeping area.

This would be if you had a dog door Tugg.

[merijigs]

It's no fun out in the yard at that hour of the day without you - go out with her and encourage her to do the right thing then bring her back inside, back to her bed and give her a favourite toy of something chewy to occupy her. Go to bed yourself and ignore all protests. My 2c worth.

[Tugg Speedman]

So what would happen if you kept the door to the laundry closed?

I suspect that her first reaction would be to scream the house down, and then there is always the chance that i may not hear her when she needs to go to the toilet. We've already had a few relapses of her using the house as a public toilet! At 5 months, she still wouldn't have 100% control of her bladder and i don't want to distress her by inadvertently causing her to soil her sleeping area.

This would be if you had a dog door Tugg.

Ok, i think we're on the same page now - you mean that if i got a doggy door installed and then closed the laundry door - our vampire cat couldn't escape into the sunlight?!

That might actually work, however, it would involve a daily migration of kitty litter trays and cat food from the laundry to another area so that the cat can eat and drink while that door is closed. Unfortunately, we do not really have another suitable permanent location for the cat's things - I'd have to dump everything in the bathroom or corridor

That reminds me - the pup has been eating cat shizzle straight out of the kitty litter! Aside from this being pretty gross - can she get any diseases/illnesses from doing this?

[poodlefan]

That reminds me - the pup has been eating cat shizzle straight out of the kitty litter! Aside from this being pretty gross - can she get any diseases/illnesses from doing this?

I'm not certain but she certainly will get appalling bad breath!

[Tugg Speedman]

Go to bed yourself and ignore all protests.

Easier said than done I'm afraid! It's like sleeping through an alarm with the volume all the way up! Speaking of which, i once lived with a friend who used to do that all the time! Not the radio mind you, the actual buzzing siren tone! It was so loud you could hear it from the street, and yet he still slept!

[Miss Danni]

Is it possible that she is getting cold outside now?

Not sure about Victoria, but the early mornings at our place are distinctly colder the last few weeks. Maybe she is getting cold outside and therefore doesn't want to stay out there at 5 o'clock in the morning.

I'd be letting her do her morning ablutions and then bringing her back into bed, maybe with a Kong to keep her quiet for a while until she falls back to sleep.

[raineth]

Go to bed yourself and ignore all protests.

Easier said than done I'm afraid! It's like sleeping through an alarm with the volume all the way up! Speaking of which, i once lived with a friend who used to do that all the time! Not the radio mind you, the actual buzzing siren tone! It was so loud you could hear it from the street, and yet he still slept!

it is easier said than done - but probably what you have to do!

How about leave the laundry door open so she wakes you up for her toilet break at around 5-6 a.m. Then supervise her toiletting. Once she's done put her in the laundry -close the door (may have to take the gate off) and IGNORE THE SCREAMING

I do think it would be good to give her something to chew on or a toy though

But seriously ignore her! maybe you won't be able to get back to sleep but it will only be a couple of nights before she learns the lesson

she sounds like a cutie - a photo would be nice

[Niques]

I have a pup who does the same thing. He'll sleep through to anytime between 4:30 and 5:30 for his morning toilet stop and will then cry until I let him out for the day at 6am.

I think ignoring her is your best bet. It's been 2 weeks since he came home and the past night or two, J. has just finally started reliably taking an hour long nap after toileting instead of crying. And I found myself towards the end of last week managing to sleep through (and even oversleep a touch) his crying, so there is hope

Fortunately, the neighbours of ours that I've spoken to are very understanding and tolerant (luckily! - from inside the garage, pup can be heard crying halfway down the street!!), but if yours have problems, I'd suck it up for a week and let her cry inside until she's learnt.

[Rapha]

We also have a Springer that used to wake up between 5-6am (however he his sleeping longer now that he is maturing)

He sleeps in the laundry and gives us a half bark that it's time to go to the toliet. We take him straight outside for toilet then we would give him his breakfast (a kibble stuffed kong from the freezer) in his crate in the lounge room.

This would keep him occupied and when we woke up at 7.30 he would be asleep in his crate.

[The Spotted Devil]

Ziggy slept in the laundry at night when he was a youngster - I left him in an open crate with a little newspaper on the floor but he was incredibly quick to toilet train overnight - I think 4 wees on the paper in 2 weeks and then never again. He had his afternoon sleeps in there too because he couldn't sleep properly in the lounge room with the cats waving their tails in his face However, the one thing I never, ever did was open his door when he whined. If I heard him get up and get a bit restless and whinge, I'd just wait until he was perfectly quiet before opening the door - it worked a treat! If I went out he was put to bed in the laundry (never for more than a few hours fortunately), he never made a sound when I came home as he realised that keeping quiet was the quickest way to get my attention. Best thing I ever did - he is still a very quiet dog.

Edited March 16, 2010 by The Spotted Devil

[Chocolatelover]

You said she sleeps from 10pm till between 5 and 6 in the morning - this is close to 8 hours. Do you put her to bed at the same time that you go? If not, maybe keeping her up with you until you go to bed would mean that she would sleep the eight hours from then? I know it doesn't always work (if kids are any indication) but might be worth a try.

And maybe a bit more activity in the evenings would benefit her in sleeping longer? Our eight month old pup stays up with us until we go to sleep. He is pretty active right up until sleep time though - and then he just sleeps while we do, even if it's 9 o'clock on the weekend! Maybe a walk around the block or a play in the evening to use up a bit of energy. I know that for us a trip to the dog park usually means he goes to bed earlier than us by choice!!

I also used to set my alarm to take my pup out for a wee during the night. By the time he was six months I was doing it once a night at about 3am. I found that with it still being night time he just wanted to go back to sleep afterwards. Now he goes before bed and then when we wake up. It is not nice getting up but if it meant a sleep in it was worth it to me.

And I probably would suggest that you don't let him "see" you if you don't actually want him in the room with you.

Just some ideas that worked for us and I do sympathise with you for those early mornings

[Tugg Speedman]

Some great advice from all of you. Thanks!

So far this week she has been much better - but i guess the problem has never been the weekdays but the weekends. During the week i get up at 6:15am to walk her for about 30 minutes so she's usually OK. It's on the w/ends when I might try and sleep in to around 9am or so that the drama begins!

For a young pup, she gets heaps of exercise (30 minute walk morning and night) - at first i was worried that i might be over exercising her, but being a Springer she has ENDLESS energy! Often we'll come back from a 30 minute walk and some off lead fun in the park and instead of resting when we get home she'll start running around chasing the cat (in a friendly way)! I'm also very careful to monitor her energy levels too - I obviously wouldn't push her beyond what she feels comfortable with. As a result, i don't think that her early waking is a result of unspent energy - but then again she is a Springer!

She starts obedience this weekend, so hopefully that will provide her with some additional mental stimulation as well as provide me with some more pointers on how best to handle her!

The plan at this stage is to do the following when i hear her whining in the morning:

1. Wait until she stops, then escort her outside to do her business.

2. Once she is finished I'll then lead her back into the laundry along with a toy or two for her to play with should she not wish to go back to sleep.

3. Go back to bed and try to ignore (or possibly correct - a Cesar Millan style "Shhh") any barking/whining etc that she may do in order to get my attention. Hopefully, this will only persist for a few days.

4. Upon waking I will then feed her/let her out/play with her etc.

Thoughts?

[raineth]

Hi Tugg,

I think it mostly sounds good.

But there are a couple of things:

First of all I wouldn't bother with the 'shh' Caesar style or not!

This is because ANY attention acts as a reward especially in the situation where she is in (confined on her own in the laundry).

Also often Caesar methods only work for Caesar

When my Dane was a pup. I worked on the principle that any attention is rewarding and I ended up with the most incredibly well behaved house puppy! He would lie on his bed unless told to get off it; and hardly chewed on anything he wasn't meant to! Anyway that is just to illustrate the power of your attention.

The other thing I would consider is that you work up to a 9:00 sleep in. It just might be asking a little too much of a very energetic pup. You said that during the week she is normally walked early in the morning. So she probably all excited and geared up for expending some energy as that is what happens 5/7 days. But then all of a sudden 2/7 days she's expected to sleep when she would normally be doing something she loves and expending energy So to go from a 6 a.m wake up to a 9 am wake up might be a bit too much to expect at this stage!

1. Wait until she stops, then escort her outside to do her business.

2. Once she is finished I'll then lead her back into the laundry along with a toy or two for her to play with should she not wish to go back to sleep.

4. Upon waking I will then feed her/let her out/play with her etc.

all that above gets a big from me