Distracted Dog

[Bubitty]

Hi Folks

I am really hoping some one can help me. Bitty is now 10 months on and is a pretty good girl. She’s well mannered and obedient but in the last month or so I have noticed that she has lost it a bit when it comes to tug.

Basically the problem I have with her is that every chance she gets she will pick up and toy and entice me to play tug or to chase her around. We no longer can train in the backyard because she just keeps playbowing me. I have tried packing every single toy away in the back yard but then she tries to entice me to chase her.

She is better inside when I pack all her toys away and will try to learn new things but as soon as we are done she will playbow me and I know she wants a game of tug.

I don’t think she is being “disobedient” because her recalls on walks etc are wonderful and in normal life when I ask her to do something (eg move somewhere, go out, go in, stay in one spot, leave something etc) she does it happily. Just that whenever we front up for a training session she will get that glint and beg for tug or try to make me chase her.

Also even in her normal life when I am going about my business she will come up at every chance with a toy in her mouth to beg for a game of tug.

I enjoy tugging with her but would like her to stop asking me to tug at every chance and to find a way to get her to be able to train in the backyard again.

Please help!!!!!

Edited March 24, 2010 by Bub

[Erny]

Oooh .... I'd love to work with your dog .

The problem is that you haven't structured in any rules to the tug game. You need to teach her when the game will start, when to give up the tug, and when the game is finished. Satisfy her need for tugging by doing her training with it in short sessions but frequently, but work it on your terms. You can only work it on your terms though, if you have made your terms clear to her.

[Aidan]

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/727

[Bubitty]

Thanks Erny!!! I saw a flyball demo once where after these border collies ran and did their flyball stuff, their owners would swing them around on this big tug thing. Is that their reward for doing the flyball thingy?

So do you mean that I am to train her to do something (eg fetch an object) and then instead of clicking and treating I am to play tug with her?

Or should I start playing tug with her for say 5 mins and then stop and ask her to give me back the toy and then put the toy away and do this a bit for a few days?

Please help me by spelling it out what you mean by making my terms clear? Can you tell me what I am to go home and do say tonight?

[Bubitty]

Okies just saw link!

Thanks Aiden!!! I’ll need to register and read it tonight! Although I would be really grateful if someone can also tell me what to do just as step number one!

I find navigating around all this training and theory very difficult at times and wish someone would just tell me: Go home, do this with your dog. Come back when you are good at it and I will tell you what to do next!

[Red Fox]

Thanks Erny!!! I saw a flyball demo once where after these border collies ran and did their flyball stuff, their owners would swing them around on this big tug thing. Is that their reward for doing the flyball thingy?

So do you mean that I am to train her to do something (eg fetch an object) and then instead of clicking and treating I am to play tug with her?

Or should I start playing tug with her for say 5 mins and then stop and ask her to give me back the toy and then put the toy away and do this a bit for a few days?

Please help me by spelling it out what you mean by making my terms clear? Can you tell me what I am to go home and do say tonight?

She obviously finds tug to be the most rewarding game of all, if it were me I'd be giving it a go. Don't see why you can't still use the clicker if you really wanted to (eg to mark a certain behaviour) but use the tug reward rather than a food reward

[Tassie]

I'd say the first thing you need to work on is to get the tug game under your control - as has been said - you start it and you finish it. You need to get the pup to take the tuggy when you present it - get her revved up, play hard for a minute or so, then stop all motion, take pressure off the tug, then what I do is put a hand under pup's chin, and gently take the tug. I usually say thank you when the pup releases the tug, then present it again for another game - rinse and repeat. So you might be playing for a few minutes, but with several releases and re-starts in that time.

Once pup is reliably releasing, you can put a verbal cue on - could be 'give' or whatever you like really - but the key cues to the pup will be all motion stopping, and pressure coming off the tug.

If pup has trouble releasing at first, you can swap for a nice treat. If you're clicker training, you could click the moment the pup relinquishes the toy to you, and treat. Although I'd lose the food from the picture as soon as you can - I find it can confuse the issue for some dogs if you're mixing food and tug.

The other important thing in this re-training phase, is that you totally ignore all approaches by the pup to play tug. (Later you can relax that a bit, but not at the moment.)

Hope that makes sense.

[Bubitty]

Thanks heaps Tassie!!!!! That makes perfect sense.

So once she is reliably playing and stopping, should I then go on to do what SecretKei suggested and use it as a reward to train her?

Does this mean that she will learn to make less “advances” towards me for tug or is this her personality and she’ll always be begging for a game?

[Erny]

So once she is reliably playing and stopping, should I then go on to do what SecretKei suggested and use it as a reward to train her?

Does this mean that she will learn to make less “advances” towards me for tug or is this her personality and she’ll always be begging for a game?

She'll always beg you for a game if you are in any way reinforcing her for her advancement/effort to get you to engage.

Yes - you get the 'game' rules down (with the start, give and end of game rules taught) and use the game itself as a reward for compliance to behaviours that you want.

[Bubitty]

Thanks Erny!!!

Its going to break my heart to say no to her but I will be tough and control myself!!!!! She just looks so adorable and joyful when she bounds up to me toy in mouth, looking ever so hopeful! I feel so awful saying no!

[poodlefan]

Thanks Erny!!!

Its going to break my heart to say no to her but I will be tough and control myself!!!!! She just looks so adorable and joyful when she bounds up to me toy in mouth, looking ever so hopeful! I feel so awful saying no!

Don't SAY no.. make her work for it. She can learn that she only gets what she wants if she works for it.. and that she only gets it when you say so.

She is a gundog.. they live to put things in their mouths. That could be channelled constructively into retrieving if you wanted to try obedience or gundog working tests.

[Bubitty]

Poodlefan: I am at this phase with her where I am trying to work out what to do with her and how to do it. She’s a gorgeous pet but a little wasted on me I think.

She’s very different to Bubby (in a good way).

Before she lost the plot with this tugging obsession she used to run up the yard on command and bring back a row of 10 toys, holding each one in her mouth and waiting before I asked her to give it to me.

[Erny]

Before she lost the plot with this tugging obsession she used to run up the yard on command and bring back a row of 10 toys, holding each one in her mouth and waiting before I asked her to give it to me.

If you structure the tug game so that tugging is the reward for it, you should be able to get her to do the "toy selection" exercise again. Sounds to me as though it just wasn't satisfying enough for her, so she's given it up for lent.

You don't live in Victoria, do you? It'd be fun to do a lesson with you and Bitty, teaching the tug and how to structure and use it to enhance obedience skills.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Erny

[Bubitty]

Not Victoria Erny!

Sydney unfortunately!!!!! *wails*

[Aidan]

Before she lost the plot with this tugging obsession she used to run up the yard on command and bring back a row of 10 toys, holding each one in her mouth and waiting before I asked her to give it to me.

I think you should get in touch with the Working Gundog Club in NSW, sounds like you've got some real potential there and she will love the work. They will give you great instruction in using these drives in training, and as a handler I've found it really good fun also.

[Bubitty]

Update! She was bugging me to tug like a banshee tonight so I tried something with her.

I got a bit excited and skipped ahead but I think it was ok!

I tugged with her and stopped a few times.

Then I made her stay and then I put a toy 10m away from her in the yard. Then I sent her out to fetch the toy and when she came back and gave me the toy I waved another toy at her (one that is good for tug) and played tug with her. Then I asked her to stop, rinse repeat.

She was a bit confused the first two times but soon got it! We wafted off and had a couple of smooches on the porch and then she managed to do it 5 times in a row, each time with me waving the tug toy at her and playing after she has run out to get the other toy!!!!!

She does not seem to be distracted anymore!!!! When I was doing it with food she had lost it and was always off waving a toy at me!

Plus she was rather mad hatter with the tugging after she came back with the toy!!!!!!

Ohh I am so excited!!!!

She will be desexed tomorrow so we won't be doing anything more for a while though.

[Mas1981]

Update! She was bugging me to tug like a banshee tonight so I tried something with her.

I got a bit excited and skipped ahead but I think it was ok!

I tugged with her and stopped a few times.

Then I made her stay and then I put a toy 10m away from her in the yard. Then I sent her out to fetch the toy and when she came back and gave me the toy I waved another toy at her (one that is good for tug) and played tug with her. Then I asked her to stop, rinse repeat.

She was a bit confused the first two times but soon got it! We wafted off and had a couple of smooches on the porch and then she managed to do it 5 times in a row, each time with me waving the tug toy at her and playing after she has run out to get the other toy!!!!!

She does not seem to be distracted anymore!!!! When I was doing it with food she had lost it and was always off waving a toy at me!

Plus she was rather mad hatter with the tugging after she came back with the toy!!!!!!

Ohh I am so excited!!!!

She will be desexed tomorrow so we won't be doing anything more for a while though.

They bounce back so quickly after de-sexing its unbelievable.

[Bubitty]

Just wanted to thank everyone for all your help!!!!

I think I have finally cracked through with my little feral!!!!

Even though she has just been desexed she's been a nutter and keeps bringing me toys. So I have been going through her old, less straining tricks with her and rewarding with a tug (nothing too excitable or physical) and I THINK SHE GETS IT!!!!!!!!!!

It works so much better than food!!!!! She's doing what I ask and waiting for the tug!!!!!!!!!!!

[persephone]

Good for you!

[Tassie]

Way to go!