Vaccination

[sandgrubber]

Titres are far more likely to say you need a vaccination when you don't than to say you're safe when you're in danger. So there's nothing wrong with a club accepting titres. I also think they may be useful for pups between 14 weeks and 14 months when a parvo epidemic is going on, especially for breeds that are notoriously sensitive to parvo. My vets tell me that parvo mortality is unacceptably high in this age group because the puppy vaccines occasionally don't take. I've never got a clear answer as to why . . . mostly shrugged shoulders + "maternal antibodies".

p.s. I'm not an expert on this, but just have a science background and have done a bit of reading and consulted a few vets.

Edited March 23, 2010 by sandgrubber

[moosepup]

Tiggy can you not get the 3 year vaccine?

I am getting that from now on, but due to the vet hospital staying with advising yearly vaccination I have had to organise 10 dogs that will use it in the time it takes to expire.

Luckily a few friends have multiple dogs. Also luckily they are my friends because it will end up costing more over the three years than an annual C5.

I do find the whole thing very confusing, but as I do not vaccinate my kids every year and they now have a 3 year vaccine I will stick to that. I am not quite brave enough to have a booster at 14 months then nothing for the rest of their life.

I thought that the vaccine was exactly the same, you just get it 3 yearly instead of annually??

[gsdog2]

This is a great thread, and very timely for me as I've just gone through the exercise of trying to find a vet who'll give the three yearly vaccination. I have been using the same veterinary hospital for the last 15 years but have had to go elsewhere for the C3 vaccination as they would not get it in. I rang three differents vets before I finally found one that would give my dog the C3 vaccination. All of them told me how important the kennel cough vaccination was, and that she should be receiving the C5 every year.

I have three dogs (the other two aren't due for there's yet) and the other two have both had kennel cough despite being vaccinated. And yes, it would have been a different strain of kennel cough to what they were vaccinated for but one of them nearly died and the cost to save him was over $3000 as he ended up with pneumonia!!! The other one also had a trip to the vets with his kennel cough but was fortunate to make a quick recovery on AB's. I would only consider the kennel cough vaccination if I was going to board them in kennels.

Edited March 23, 2010 by gsdog2

[OSoSwift]

Tiggy can you not get the 3 year vaccine?

I am getting that from now on, but due to the vet hospital staying with advising yearly vaccination I have had to organise 10 dogs that will use it in the time it takes to expire.

Luckily a few friends have multiple dogs. Also luckily they are my friends because it will end up costing more over the three years than an annual C5.

I do find the whole thing very confusing, but as I do not vaccinate my kids every year and they now have a 3 year vaccine I will stick to that. I am not quite brave enough to have a booster at 14 months then nothing for the rest of their life.

I thought that the vaccine was exactly the same, you just get it 3 yearly instead of annually??

There is a vaccine that is specifically labelled as a three year vaccine and it does have higher thingo's for Parvo at least. There was a thread on it - anyway that one is registered as a trienniel C3 vaccination. Some vets will give a normal vaccine and sign off for three years. Mine will not. I have had to organise 10 dogs that will get vaccinated with the Trienniel vacc wihin the next 12 months before they will do it. Bloody annoying, but these are the things we do I guess.

[Crisovar]

Tiggy can you not get the 3 year vaccine?

I am getting that from now on, but due to the vet hospital staying with advising yearly vaccination I have had to organise 10 dogs that will use it in the time it takes to expire.

Luckily a few friends have multiple dogs. Also luckily they are my friends because it will end up costing more over the three years than an annual C5.

I do find the whole thing very confusing, but as I do not vaccinate my kids every year and they now have a 3 year vaccine I will stick to that. I am not quite brave enough to have a booster at 14 months then nothing for the rest of their life.

I thought that the vaccine was exactly the same, you just get it 3 yearly instead of annually?? :D

The AVA have issued advice that 3 yearly vaccination is the way to go, and that the regular annual vaccines will last the 3 years.

There is at this stage (AFAIK) only one manufacturer who has registered a 3 year Vaccine, and yes it is different to the other annual vaccines.

Many vets will not sign off on the other Vaccines as they are registered as annual vaccines, and to sign off on them is against manufacturers recomendation. In the event that they signed off on them for 3 years and an animal contracted Parvo etc they legally have gone against the registered use of the vaccine, and it could be sticky.

[stormie]

And unfortunately, we're getting no support from the companies who make annual vaccines and they're also still insisting their vaccines be given annually, regardless of what the AVA has said.

No one is willing to do research on the duration of their vaccines either, because I'm sure they know they will last longer than 12months and to show that would result in a massive drop in revenue.

[moosepup]

Okay thanks guys, that explains it. :D

It's a shame that it's all about the $$ but that's life eh. We haven't had Zoe vaccinated for several years now (she's 11) and she's still going strong. When I mentioned that to the vet the other day he said it was probably just luck...

I think I'm going to be doing a lot more reading about this than I thought lol.

[Guest Tess32]

And unfortunately, we're getting no support from the companies who make annual vaccines and they're also still insisting their vaccines be given annually, regardless of what the AVA has said.

No one is willing to do research on the duration of their vaccines either, because I'm sure they know they will last longer than 12months and to show that would result in a massive drop in revenue.

How can they if you can't measure memory cells....?

[Staranais]

And unfortunately, we're getting no support from the companies who make annual vaccines and they're also still insisting their vaccines be given annually, regardless of what the AVA has said.

No one is willing to do research on the duration of their vaccines either, because I'm sure they know they will last longer than 12months and to show that would result in a massive drop in revenue.

How can they if you can't measure memory cells....?

Challenge trials, not serology (titre) trials, are generally held to be the "gold standard" for vaccine testing. Get a bunch of animals, vaccinate some, wait a while, then challenge them all with the disease, and compare how many animals in each group contract the disease. If the vaccine still works adequately at that point in time, fewer animals in the vaccinated group will contract the disease.

Challenge trials have been done & published for most major feline and canine vaccines. This is what the AVA base their recommendations on.

[OSoSwift]

I would just like everyone (companies, vets ets) to get their act together, work together and agree! It would make it much less confusing for those of us that are the consumer.

It just does my head in!

If research say a 1 year vaccine works for three years, then label it as such. If they are not sure test it and then label it - I am just getting so annoyed at all the to-ing anf fro-ing.

Aarrgghhh.

[Daisy]

I would just like everyone (companies, vets ets) to get their act together, work together and agree! It would make it much less confusing for those of us that are the consumer.

It just does my head in!

If research say a 1 year vaccine works for three years, then label it as such. If they are not sure test it and then label it - I am just getting so annoyed at all the to-ing anf fro-ing.

Aarrgghhh.

I totally agree!

[sandgrubber]

I would just like everyone (companies, vets ets) to get their act together, work together and agree! It would make it much less confusing for those of us that are the consumer.

It just does my head in!

If research say a 1 year vaccine works for three years, then label it as such. If they are not sure test it and then label it - I am just getting so annoyed at all the to-ing anf fro-ing.

Aarrgghhh.

I totally agree!

Tell the drug companies. The 'one year' label was never supported by research . . . other than drug company calculations that they'll make more money if dogs are vaccinated annually. There are suggestions that the 'one year' = 'three year' vaccines (I'm not sure they are identical, but I've heard vets say there's no difference) are actually good for life ... except of course where something goes wrong and a vaccinated dog gets the disease. It's a big step forward that the AVA has heeded the weight of scientific evidence and gone to the 3 year protocol as a basic recommendation for core vaccinations. Personally, I'd like to see more quality control on vaccines. It really pisses me off when puppies are made sick by a bad batch. If that happened with a vaccine used on humans there'd be multi-million dollar lawsuits.

A muddle has been created. I think education is required to clear it up.

Edited March 24, 2010 by sandgrubber

[OSoSwift]

I totally agree, it all needs to be sorted out! At the moment it is all over the place. I just want some uniformaty

[Fleas]

General Consensus is that the yearly (read annual booster shot ) for all dogs over 1 year is suitable to be given every 3 years. Don't be swayed into getting a booster shot that is supposed to last three years as it is a larger does and some dogs will react badly to it, i.e. it can suppress their immune systems too much in the first 12-18 months after administered. C4 (Kennel Cough) should be given once or twice when they are puppies but a mild dose of KC is better for the dog to catch so that it's own immune system can do it's thing about it. Any other episodes should be less intense and last a shorter period of time, like your own kids catching cold from school.

The same careful thought should be given to the annual Heartworm vaccination in puppies and mid to older dogs (Proheart). It has been cited as causing deathe in the very young and older dogs and introducing heart defects in mid aged dogs introduced to it after being on monthly treatment. Some European countries and American States have banned its use. Don't believe me, Google it !! It just overloads the cardiovascular system. Comparable to someone on blood pressure medication taking their daily dose for a whole year in one go !!

Edited March 24, 2010 by Fleas

[OSoSwift]

General Consensus is that the yearly (read annual booster shot ) for all dogs over 1 year is suitable to be given every 3 years. Don't be swayed into getting a booster shot that is supposed to last three years as it is a larger does and some dogs will react badly to it, i.e. it can suppress their immune systems too much in the first 12-18 months after administered.

That would be good but my vet will not sign off on a i year vacc for 3 years and if I don't have a yearly or triennel vacc I cannot go to dog training or take my adult dogs along when we have Puppy pre school. My vet will not sign off on a 1 year vacc for 3 years.

I do not give Proheart anyway, so no drama there.

[sandgrubber]

If my vet wouldn't sign off I'd direct them to the AVA website. If that didn't convince them, I'd change vets. . . . unless a good reason is given for going against the AVA guidelines and the preponderance of scientific evidence

The reason it will be hard to get clear answers is that the people who make $$ off annual vaccinations will be slow to give up. Btw, there are still reasons to do an annual checkup. It may help you in getting the vet to sign off on 3 yr to make it clear that you still intend to do check ups.

General Consensus is that the yearly (read annual booster shot ) for all dogs over 1 year is suitable to be given every 3 years. Don't be swayed into getting a booster shot that is supposed to last three years as it is a larger does and some dogs will react badly to it, i.e. it can suppress their immune systems too much in the first 12-18 months after administered.

That would be good but my vet will not sign off on a i year vacc for 3 years and if I don't have a yearly or triennel vacc I cannot go to dog training or take my adult dogs along when we have Puppy pre school. My vet will not sign off on a 1 year vacc for 3 years.

I do not give Proheart anyway, so no drama there.

[OSoSwift]

They are the only vet I have available to see, it is 400kms to the next one.

They have seen the AVA statement - I asked them about and talked to them about it.

THey still will not change their recommendations.

I have asked them if they will just send reminders out for yearly check ups instead of vaccinations. They will send a reminder to me, but say that many dogs they see - ie farm dogs- the only time they see them is for their yearly vaccination and if they vacc'd them 3 yearly the farmers would not bring them in unless injured. Therefore they would not get their yearly check up and illnesses may not be picked uup.

They know for someone like me who knows their own dogs well, I will pick something up and I will also take them for their yearly check, but believe most won't.

It is very frustrating!

Just trying to get the three year vacc is doing my head in quite frankly!

If my vet wouldn't sign off I'd direct them to the AVA website. If that didn't convince them, I'd change vets. . . . unless a good reason is given for going against the AVA guidelines and the preponderance of scientific evidence

The reason it will be hard to get clear answers is that the people who make $$ off annual vaccinations will be slow to give up. Btw, there are still reasons to do an annual checkup. It may help you in getting the vet to sign off on 3 yr to make it clear that you still intend to do check ups.

General Consensus is that the yearly (read annual booster shot ) for all dogs over 1 year is suitable to be given every 3 years. Don't be swayed into getting a booster shot that is supposed to last three years as it is a larger does and some dogs will react badly to it, i.e. it can suppress their immune systems too much in the first 12-18 months after administered.

That would be good but my vet will not sign off on a i year vacc for 3 years and if I don't have a yearly or triennel vacc I cannot go to dog training or take my adult dogs along when we have Puppy pre school. My vet will not sign off on a 1 year vacc for 3 years.

I do not give Proheart anyway, so no drama there.

[stormie]

Ironically, since we've been running this place and changed the protocol to the 3 yearly one, we've been the busiest the place has ever been! I think people love the fact that clearly the vet here isn't money focused and can see that in the way he runs his business, so are more likely to come up for even the little things now.

[Erny]

Ironically, since we've been running this place and changed the protocol to the 3 yearly one, we've been the busiest the place has ever been! I think people love the fact that clearly the vet here isn't money focused and can see that in the way he runs his business, so are more likely to come up for even the little things now.

And that's just it, Stormie ;) .

Years (and years and years) ago, I worked for a firm who had budget goals to meet. My immediate boss (whom I'd just started working for) wanted me to spend time hunting through files and putting through bills/accounts for work done to date (rather than waiting until the end), because we were a bit under budget for that month and the next. These accounts wouldn't be sent to the clients - it was just an academic exercise. Being a fairly forward youngster I told him that I felt the money would flow if we instead gave attention to the work needed to be done on the files - ie to get the job done for the clients and to focus our attention on doing it well. "Build it and they will come" is a saying that comes to mind. And I was right, and in the preceding months to follow (I'd caught up on all the work and all the files were in order) we topped our allocated budget easily.

Do the work. Do the right thing. People aren't stupid - they'll come. Heck ..... I travelled 2 hours (each way) to visit a Vet (several times) with my dog, just because I felt the Vet had my dog's best interests at heart and that it wasn't about money. And I paid without quibble. So we both won. My dog. And the Vet. Do that and people will spread the word by recommendation.

Eventually it will all even out as protocol changes and everyone (most, at least) advocate the same. But the early birds will catch the most worms ;).

[gsdog2]

Eventually it will all even out as protocol changes and everyone (most, at least) advocate the same. But the early birds will catch the most worms ;).

That's right Erny ;). Next time my girl's due (3yrs time) for her vaccination I will get a reminder from the vet who was willing to use it NOW, and so I will be returning to them for her next three yearly vaccination!