Barf V Vet's All Natural

[sas]

My genuine question to Sas is exactly that - a genuine question regarding schools of thoughts I have been entertaining regarding a dog's dysfunctional immune system.

Sorry, forgot about this thread

I'm affraid I can't be too open minded about this as science is black and white on this subject that allergies are because of an over-active immune system so if you attempt to boost the immune system that wouldn't be benifical to the dog?

I'm not saying don't give the dog things that are good for it like Fish Oil etc but I'm referring to the actual boosting of the immune system.

If we were dealing with a 'dysfunctional' immune system you would first need to accertain what was dysfunction i.e. was it over or under active?

I've personaly been down the track of boosting the immune system in an allergic dog so my opinions are also drawn from my own experiences as well as scientific based information, right now we're using a skin supplement that would be technically boosting the immune system and I'm not seeing anything positive come out of it.

If I have mis-interpreted something I'm more than happy to re-educate myself.

Edited March 31, 2010 by sas

[sas]

We're 8 weeks into VAN, we're doing:

1) Roo Meat

2) Van Skin Support supplement

3) Van Omega Blend oil

4) Van Complete Mix

He did detox through his skin at the 3 week mark which VAN said is expected, he did recover from that. We then ran out of Roo (Stupid I know!) and fed him fish that he had been fed for the last year and he had a big reaction through his skin, it took about 3 weeks to recover from that and then he got into the rubbish (Super) and then he got into Leila's kibble (Big Super!).

Because of this I am going to try the VAN for a bit longer. I have seen a reduction in skin staining especially around his muzzle but I personaly think it may be a bit itchier on it. Generaly he doesn't itch on Cortisone but he has been itching a bit lately.

It is costing me about $100 a week for a Great Dane so it is pretty pricey but I don't mind if I'm going to get a result. If this fails I'll probably go back to Raw, he had been on raw for some time a while ago but it didn't seem to improve anything but I do think the kibble is not agreeing with him and we have tried different ones and given them time to settle etc.

The Calendula isn't working for us at the moment, I think we're currently past that threshold.

On another note, I think we should do a thread on all the miracle cures we have all tried and the results LOL

Edited March 31, 2010 by sas

[Prydenjoy]

Boosting the immune system may prevent secondary infections though, yeah? Skin problems can lead to all kinds of other problems as one of your bodies natural barriers isn't working.

Also, nourishing the system can help repair of damaged skin, yeah? I guess it goes hand in hand nourishing the bodies repair mechanisms and immune system?

[sas]

Boosting the immune system may prevent secondary infections though, yeah? Skin problems can lead to all kinds of other problems as one of your bodies natural barriers isn't working.

Also, nourishing the system can help repair of damaged skin, yeah? I guess it goes hand in hand nourishing the bodies repair mechanisms and immune system?

Secondary skin infections occur in dogs without over active immune systems so I can't really answer your question I'm affraid.

We personaly avoid around 90% of possible secondary skin infections with topical applications.

How do you mean Skin problems can lead to all kinds of other problems? Can you provide examples so I know what track you're on?

I think the thing you may be confusing what I am saying as my version of boosting the immune system seems to be different to what your understanding of that is.

If we go on the premise that allergies are the result of an over active immune system that would mean if you were to 'boost' the immune system you could be potentially doing more damage. Boosting the immune system isn't going to cure the allergies.

I think you'll find many owners of allergic dogs have pumped all kinds of vitamins and minerals into their dogs under this guise with very little positive result....Obviously I can only refer to myself and other allergic dog owners I know.

[Erny]

If an immune system isn't functioning properly, isn't it possible to 'nourish' the immune system to give it a chance to begin to function properly?

I have chronic fatigue. It's not as bad as it used to be, and I haven't had it as bad as some people do. But it was and can be bad enough. My naturopath prescribed some tablets that would (using her explanation) "nourish" my adrenals - ie not boost them into overdrive, just 'nourish' so that they might begin to function properly and not have the affect on me that they were having.

Just to explain - my chronic fatigue was brought on by excessive stress. I ran for months on end on adrenaline - that's what kept me going and working for 114 hours a week. The stress kicked off the adrenaline which had me working to excess and not taking the time out to eat (or sleep) as a result. Then it got to the point that without the adrenaline, I had no energy. The medication prescribed did seem to help me a lot, even though it took some time for things to come better.

This is I guess what I have meant when I refer to "boosting the immune system". I mean "supporting it". Nourishing it so that it will have every chance of functioning normally.

What would "boost" the immune system into abnormal over-drive anyway, other than an immune system that is already in that state? I can't understand how anything that would be naturally good for a dog would cause its immune system to go berserk (over work). My (perhaps poor) understanding of vitamins etc is that the body will excrete what it does not need. So it wouldn't be as if the adrenal gland would go "oh boy!! Here comes some vitamins!! I'm going to suck them up so I can act on super-charge", would it?

So - vitamin/mineral additives wouldn't necessarily prevent secondary skin infections occurring as a result of the initial allergy reaction, but an immune system that was as nourished as it could be to function as well as it might would have to at least assist, wouldn't it?

Of course if the dog is a chronic allergy dog, to me it indicates a possible immune system issue in the first place. Consequently (in my layperson's way of thinking) it is less likely to be able to combat secondary skin infection without some sort of topical assistance. That's where, for my dog, Calendula Tea applications have been a huge help.

Genuine query. Not trying to be a smarty pants, just in case it sounds like I might be.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Erny

[Skruffy n Flea]

Hey, just anonther update, Wendell, well and truly on the mend now, have had him on some chinese herbs, that were slowly helping, but then I decided to try the Apple Cider Vinegar in his food and noticed a significant difference overnight. The angry looking, inflammed lumps lessened and he's about 85% good, it just seemed to really turn the healing on. But the herbs I'm sure were doing alot of the work in his system, he was just taking longer to respond then previously (over a week).

I had tried the calendula tea, didn't seem to have any effect, then I went back to the good ole aloe straight off the plant (which we had success with previously), didn't seem to alleviate the itch or redness.

Now, it's just a matter of crossing the fingers and hoping he stays good! I'll keep him on the ACV I think since it is supposed to be good for many things, and he doesn't care that I put it in his food.

Hope your furry one doing ok

aj, that is excellent news and i'm really glad you've hit on a formula that works for wendell ... it could be that acv worked with the herbs and thus provided promising results! as for the tea and aloe, using them topically i believe protects the body from secondary infection and may add some physical relief to the site as opposed to actually healing a skin condition?!?! that is my understanding in any event

my boy seems to be doing better too ... i'm avoiding the elimination diet and persisting with essential 6 in the hope that it stabilises his skin tissue externally! he's on his 2nd course, which is 1 tube per week for the next four [same as the first course] and then 1 per fortnight for 8 weeks [there's 4 tubes per box] and then i think it goes out to 1 per three weeks etc etc...

during that time i intend to continue with the same diet, with supplements [acv, fish oil and probiotics] ... if i consider that byron could be doing better, i'll look at eliminating a food item from his diet that i *think* may be insulting his system...

both my two are due flea treatment this weekend and i'm chosing to not administer it ... i'm quite certain that i applied a spot-on earlier in the week of the byron's last flare-up. spot-on flea treatment is high on my list of offending chemical...

let's both hope *hard* that our continued best endeavours reap rewards for our beloved boys

[Skruffy n Flea]

sas, so are you saying that it's genetics!??! or that the naturally occuring antibodies [which is what i believe are the underused naturally occuring insult-fighters that go into overdrive at the slightest provocation because they have nothing else to do] are not being utilised by our dogs because we over-protect our dogs in case of a parasitic outbreak!??

maybe both!??!

it seems to me that some of the allergies that affect our dogs may very well lie in either of the above two possibilities ... i believe byron's condition is strongly linked to genetics but i'm an advocate for both schools of thought...

i'm a supporter of strengthening the immune system in our dogs, supplementing their diets with naturally occuring fortifying agents and cutting out the unnecessary protection, or at the very least minimise it, to lessen those incidents of the dog's condition so owners can then concentrate on what really is affecting their dog...

i hope i'm on the right track...

as for your VAN plan CONGRATS!!! but by what do you mean that your dog detoxed through his skin!??! did it make him smell!??!

i shouldn't giggle but those mishaps had to make you at least smile despite the setbacks

jeanne, there are others better placed to answer your questions, but for me, i'd say you're on the right track with boosting the immune system internally ... i think tho that some topical applications assist in depressing secondary infections so that internal supplements can make an impact on what's occuring visibly, if that makes sense...

i don't know that skin problems can lead to all kinds of other problems, but what i can tell you is that skin problems does represent that one of your body's natural barriers isn't working, at least not functioning as it should...

and yes, nourishing the skin internally and topically WILL help repair the skin but sometimes not to the extent that it was prior to the damage...

erny, i too have cfs, likely due to being a pound of flesh from a previous life but also having had glandular fever and cytomegalovirus, gf's happy cousin, both undiagnosed during said previous life period ... there being no known cure and with the condition still in it's infancy, aspects are still being diagnosed, as was another aspect of it for me just one week ago! it's a helluva long uphill battle and i have bouts of it that last for weeks, particularly if i'm under a degree of stress and i'm not looking after myself properly...

my doctor still hasn't been able to provide for me the perfect *solution* to keep me going day-to-day but with all the vitamins and supplements, i manage to get thru a day at work ... consistency tho in that regard is the issue!

good luck in your battle

as for supplementing the immune system, if i've been doing some research, and man, i do that up the wahzoo sometimes cuz i just want frikken answers BUT before i add anything to my diet i contact my doctor to make sure it won't have any ill effects with any other supplement i'm taking and we all know that some synthetic drugs are not to be taken with some natural supplements ... so, same i reckon goes for dogs! one supplement might react adversely with another...

for some odd reason and if i was treating internally to counteract a skin condition, i'm inclined to use a topical application to alleviate physical symptoms and to prevent the possibility of festering sores ... that's how i reckon an ongoing allergy treatment works best: treat the condition internally but use a natural antiseptic topically to deal with the appearance, which is essentially my take on dealing with byron's condition ... strengthen his immune system with supplements internally and use natural products topically to deal with the physical effects of his condition...

[sas]

Erny,

I think the thing here is we just don't know, lot's of theories and that is about it.

If we go on our own experience of allt he kinds of things we've pumped into our allergic dogs and still have the same problem at the same intensity then what does that tell us?

[sas]

sas, so are you saying that it's genetics!??! or that the naturally occuring antibodies [which is what i believe are the underused naturally occuring insult-fighters that go into overdrive at the slightest provocation because they have nothing else to do] are not being utilised by our dogs because we over-protect our dogs in case of a parasitic outbreak!??

We already know that Atopic allergies has a genetic component.

I'm not a Determatologist, I can only comment on my own personal experience and the information already out there.

I, personaly have not 'over-protected' my dog for anything. They get wormed if they need worming and they get flea treatment if they need flea treatment, they get washed if they really need to be washed etc. etc.

See the thing is, this 'over-protected' theory doesn't work in multi-dog house holds where there is only one affected dog.

Can I please clarify that when I refer to BOOSTING the immune system I am talking about what a person does when they have a Cold. I am not referring to giving everyday supplements etc to a dog to help 'maintain' a body.

what do you mean that your dog detoxed through his skin!??! did it make him smell!??!

He got skin eruptions.

i don't know that skin problems can lead to all kinds of other problems, but what i can tell you is that skin problems does represent that one of your body's natural barriers isn't working, at least not functioning as it should...

There seems tol be some crediance to the theory that lack of a typical skin barrier could be a genetic problem.

as for supplementing the immune system, if i've been doing some research, and man, i do that up the wahzoo sometimes cuz i just want frikken answers BUT before i add anything to my diet i contact my doctor to make sure it won't have any ill effects with any other supplement i'm taking and we all know that some synthetic drugs are not to be taken with some natural supplements ... so, same i reckon goes for dogs! one supplement might react adversely with another...

There lies a problem....not that many Dr's let alone Vets believe supplements do much at all, in addition not many Vets are trained in Supplementation, this is where Holistic Vets come in.

for some odd reason and if i was treating internally to counteract a skin condition, i'm inclined to use a topical application to alleviate physical symptoms and to prevent the possibility of festering sores ... that's how i reckon an ongoing allergy treatment works best: treat the condition internally but use a natural antiseptic topically to deal with the appearance, which is essentially my take on dealing with byron's condition ... strengthen his immune system with supplements internally and use natural products topically to deal with the physical effects of his condition...

And that's your theory and really that's all we have, is theories because each dog is different. In this thread alone each dogs' skin problem is different and what seems to assist for one dog may not assist for the next.

I wish you every success with your dog and hope you get a handle on his condition, I'm been fighting ours constantly...summer and winter for 3 years.

Edited April 2, 2010 by sas

[Erny]

Erny,

I think the thing here is we just don't know, lot's of theories and that is about it.

If we go on our own experience of allt he kinds of things we've pumped into our allergic dogs and still have the same problem at the same intensity then what does that tell us?

It doesn't tell us anything specific, but it doesn't rule out some things.

If we haven't "pumped" in all the usual chemicals it doesn't rule out the genetic propensity.

And that, in turn, doesn't rule out the possibility of all those chemicals which might have potentially been pumped into our dogs' ancestors causing an evolution to immune system dysfunction; poor organ (eg digestive) function; etc.

If we have "pumped" in all the 'good' stuff (eg. balanced raw diet) it still doesn't rule out the genetic propensity.

And that, in turn, doesn't rule out the possibility that our dogs could have been worse off if we had pumped in all the usual chemicals.

And it also doesn't rule out that our dogs' immune system is either unaffected or better off for all the good stuff we pump in.

I agree that much is theory and/or anecdotal. However logic has to play a part in what we do.

But somewhere here I think the point I was questioning (and it's not as though I expect a definitive answer - it's only because you raised a caution against "boosting" the immune system and I wanted to take the opportunity to discuss that - whether with you or with anyone else who would care to offer opinion/thoughts). That is, is it really possible to "boost" the immune system beyond what it would normally be capable of? As I mentioned earlier, my interpretation of "boost" is not to "super-charge" it so that it functions beyond how it should - to do that would render it a dysfunctioning immune system anyway (in my thoughts). To me, "boost" means the equivalent of "nourish" or "nurture", so that it might be afforded the opportunity of functioning as it should.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Erny

[sas]

Hey Erny,

My Boosting and your Boosting are 2 different things and that is where the confusion has laid in but also me saying that it doesn't make sense to boost an immune system if allergies are because of an overactive immune system is also logical in my head and I think some people here are confusing underactive and overactive.

All all seriousness I don't understand why others don't understand why "boosting" an immune system would not be good for an allergic dog who is allergic because of an over-active immune system LOL Obviously I'm in my own little world here.

Do I think you can over-boost an immune system...I guess if you could then Cancer patients would be doing so. But here are again...BOOST vs OVER BOOST LOL

I think because we're using different levels of thoughts here we're not going to get on the same page.

Please see my explanation on boosting an immune system when you have a cold - hopefully that will help you understand where my head is.

In an allergic dog who is allergic because of an over-active immune system you would need to bring the immune system down some nitches to behave normaly - so therefore is your question that by supplementing a day can we get the immune system to behave on a normal level?

I'm not saying I'm right, as I said before I'm not a dermatologist and I can only go with what we know already, playing theories does my dog no good and it sure as shit doesn't help my wallet LOL

Edited April 3, 2010 by sas

[Erny]

In an allergic dog who is allergic because of an over-active immune system you would need to bring the immune system down some nitches to behave normaly - so therefore is your question that by supplementing a day can we get the immune system to behave on a normal level?

Thanks Sas for understanding this is conversation/bantering. I think I'm in the same boat as you - I don't really know and I do have my own thoughts. And yes, I think because you imagine "boost" as something more or different than what I imagine "boost" to be, we are on different pages.

I think what you've said/asked above (highlighted by me) is close to what I'm trying to (obviously very poorly) get across/ask. I am saying that an over-active immune system is not functioning as it should. By nurturing the immune system so that it can be as healthy as it could be, to me isn't going to mean it will function even more than it already is, but rather that it might have a chance of functioning as it should.

[Erny]

erny, i too have cfs ... good luck in your battle ...

Thanks SnF. And you in yours .

[aj2251]

Hey, just thought I'd add another update on Wendell...

I had a fur analysis done (it tests 205 different allergens, including just about every type of meat, some flea and worming products, shampoos, conditioners, a couple of brands of dog food) and low and behold he didn't come back with what I expected him to be allergic to! I thought for sure the Wandering Dew and grass and possibly the beef would show up as being his allergens.

Wouldn't you know it, he came back allergic to chicken and turkey!!! CHICKEN! The one food that I have always had him on, even during the VAN only diet he had chicken (if I had gone completely raw he still would've been getting chicken). No wonder his belly would improve for only short periods at a time and then flare up again, and no wonder he didn't do well on Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken and he didn't do well on Artemis (1st 2 ingredients being chicken and turkey).

So for anyone out there who have allergy issues with their furry ones, for $127 and results returned within a week, the fur analysis was well worth it! By the time I went through an elimination diet it could've been weeks more before I figured this one out.

[Mas1981]

Hey, just thought I'd add another update on Wendell...

I had a fur analysis done (it tests 205 different allergens, including just about every type of meat, some flea and worming products, shampoos, conditioners, a couple of brands of dog food) and low and behold he didn't come back with what I expected him to be allergic to! I thought for sure the Wandering Dew and grass and possibly the beef would show up as being his allergens.

Wouldn't you know it, he came back allergic to chicken and turkey!!! CHICKEN! The one food that I have always had him on, even during the VAN only diet he had chicken (if I had gone completely raw he still would've been getting chicken). No wonder his belly would improve for only short periods at a time and then flare up again, and no wonder he didn't do well on Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken and he didn't do well on Artemis (1st 2 ingredients being chicken and turkey).

So for anyone out there who have allergy issues with their furry ones, for $127 and results returned within a week, the fur analysis was well worth it! By the time I went through an elimination diet it could've been weeks more before I figured this one out.

I am very interested in getting my dog tested, where did you have it done? Would you inbox me the details. I made a mistake last week and took my dog to the vet for allergies ( something I swore I would never do, wanted to treat them holistically) got put on cortisone and anti-histamines and told to feed Hills ZD, oh and my dog got a antibiotic injection. My dog has changed so much in one week it is incredible, I want to stop everything besides the anti-histamine ( I know I have to do the cortisone slowly) and i want to change to a raw diet. He has no personality, is very depressed, he acts like he is starving and on top of all this his paws are still red.

[Skruffy n Flea]

Hey, just thought I'd add another update on Wendell...

I had a fur analysis done (it tests 205 different allergens, including just about every type of meat, some flea and worming products, shampoos, conditioners, a couple of brands of dog food) and low and behold he didn't come back with what I expected him to be allergic to! I thought for sure the Wandering Dew and grass and possibly the beef would show up as being his allergens.

Wouldn't you know it, he came back allergic to chicken and turkey!!! CHICKEN! The one food that I have always had him on, even during the VAN only diet he had chicken (if I had gone completely raw he still would've been getting chicken). No wonder his belly would improve for only short periods at a time and then flare up again, and no wonder he didn't do well on Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken and he didn't do well on Artemis (1st 2 ingredients being chicken and turkey).

So for anyone out there who have allergy issues with their furry ones, for $127 and results returned within a week, the fur analysis was well worth it! By the time I went through an elimination diet it could've been weeks more before I figured this one out.

that's excellent news aj ... i didn't put byron on the elim diet; just cut out chicken [don't ask me why, i just had an inkling] and lo, behold! he is doing so much better :p his tear stains are clearing and his itch has diminished substantially!

both he and bella ADORE chicken! especially fresh woolies bbq chicken! which we have every monday nite! grocery shopping nite!

on the right side of this, i've noted that his itch 'acts up' in the next 24 hours if i've given him some cooked chicken, and that includes raw [me being one that considered the 'cooking process' alters the digestive effect as opposed to that in its raw state] ... i also wondered this past week how closely related chicken meat is to turkey meat; i still need to try it BUT to all extents, byron has a 'chicken' issue and it manifests within 24 hours yet subsides just as quickly.

i bought a shitload-size bag of artemis weight management a month or so ago ... i've just checked the contents; gutted!

he and bella both lick their paws fastidiously and in an effort to determine whether that too is alergy related, we've been able to redirect their attention fairly quickly and so believe that condition is related moreso to anxiety :D working on it!

I am very interested in getting my dog tested, where did you have it done? Would you inbox me the details. I made a mistake last week and took my dog to the vet for allergies ( something I swore I would never do, wanted to treat them holistically) got put on cortisone and anti-histamines and told to feed Hills ZD, oh and my dog got a antibiotic injection. My dog has changed so much in one week it is incredible, I want to stop everything besides the anti-histamine ( I know I have to do the cortisone slowly) and i want to change to a raw diet. He has no personality, is very depressed, he acts like he is starving and on top of all this his paws are still red.

mas, i sooo very much feel for you ... i feel absolutely desperate with you. it is so awfully unfair for our dogs to have to deal with these sensitivities ;) but please, hang in there for your dog, be your strong self and show your happiness thru the sadness ... he needs you soooo much...

but you don't need me to tell you that ... what i can tell you tho is that whatever your question, come here, to this forum ... we collectively can help you manage...

introducing a raw diet, perhaps dr b's barf, might be an option, but there are a number of other options that could be more or just as effective ... it really is a matter of trial and error. vet's all natural has an alergy [!??!] formula that has had some success ... testing the effectiveness of a diet on your dog may prove to be, in the short term, a tad expensive, but then in the long run and when you figure it all out, you and your dog can start to rise above alergy and skin issues...

i'm really glad that byron, being a rescue dog of unknown origin, has been reasonably easy to manage ... i feel so much for those owners and their dogs whose issues seem larger than life itself and i wish you all the very best, from the bottom of my heart...

i hope none of that sounded too soppy but ty anyway for indulging me ;)

[Mas1981]

Skruffy & Flea thanks for the advice, I do appreciate the support the forum provides, dont know where I would be without it, a lot of people on here have given really good advice and I will always try anything as long as it sounds reasonable. I have sent my hair analysis off and should have it back next week, until then I suppose I should feed kibble and then change to raw depending on the test results. I have a feeling my dog may be a bit allergic to lamb and chicken, he does better on roo and beef. I am keen to try some goat and camel though.

[Skruffy n Flea]

Skruffy & Flea thanks for the advice, I do appreciate the support the forum provides, dont know where I would be without it, a lot of people on here have given really good advice and I will always try anything as long as it sounds reasonable. I have sent my hair analysis off and should have it back next week, until then I suppose I should feed kibble and then change to raw depending on the test results. I have a feeling my dog may be a bit allergic to lamb and chicken, he does better on roo and beef. I am keen to try some goat and camel though.

good luck with the analysis and i hope it proves beneficial...

as for feeding, the best approach from what i understand is to progressively introduce a new food to a dog's diet ... if you're feeding predominantly dry, then i guess mixing in a bit of raw would be the way to go until such time as your dog happily accepts the raw food on its own. don't forget to throw him some meaty bones either! dr billinghurst's barf recipes contain the essentials for dog health so find yourself a local supplier; petbarn stocks it [at least my local does].

if you think your dog is possibly allergic to lamb and chicken and does better on roo and beef, then slowly introduce roo and or beef to his diet ... don't however introduce the goat and camel, because if you need to put your dog on an elimination diet, those meats could be used to substitute the other meats in his diet because him not having eaten those meats in the past cannot therefore be a cause of any current intolerance. does that make sense!??!

look also at the contents of your dog's dry food ... sometimes grains/wheats etc have an allergic effect on dogs.

i hope it all works out for your dog mas

[Longdog]

Hi Everyone,

I have been reading these comments and have found some very useful information (eg. alloe vera, apple cider vinegar & chamomile tea).

However, I would like to add some info regarding the comments on "boosting" the immune system. I have had an autoimmune illness for 40 years. It is very rare and can be life threatening. To say I have read everything that I can on the immune system that I can lay my hands on is pretty close to reality. Having said that, I am no expert nor am I medically qualified......however, I do point out that even my specialist (world leader in his field) cannot explain how/why autoimmune occurs.

What I have derived from an autoimmune reaction is that the immune system comes in two parts, the innate immune system (first line of defence) and the acquired immune system (second line of defence). The acquired one is the problem for autoimmune illnesses (eg. Rhem arthritis, lupus, CFS, diabetes etc etc), and you don't want to stimulate it and aggravate that one. But the innate one can be safely boosted by some substances and can help keep that that part of the immune system strong and as healthy as possible. It is important to stress that some things for the innate system will affect the acquired one (eg echinacea) but most are fine.

Often the first sign that our acquired immune system is disfunctioning is with allergic reactions ie skin conditions, hayfever etc. At this stage, it appears it can be possible to treat the reaction with such things as diet/supplements etc. Luckily, if it becomes more serious, we can"dumb" down the acquired immune system by using such things as cortizone and other drugs. Judging by a veterinary approach to allergies etc, a dog's immune system appears to be similar.

The bottom line is that the world experts do not have a clue whether autoimmune is heriditary, environmental or (as some drs try and tell me) viral. I don't think we are going to solve it here but I have to stress, I like to hedge my bets (especially where my life is concerned) and I endeavour to have an organic, chemical free environment and diet for myself and my family (including the dog). So far I've beaten the odds so I figure I must be doing something right.

If my dog was reacting to "something" (which she has done in the past) then I would definitely look at environment/diet. It turned out she had an immune reaction caused from overdosing from her vaccinations. This manifested in skin conditions, ear infections and bladder infections. Today, we have to seriously consider everything we do and what we put in our bodies (and that includes the 4xleg ones).

I certainly respect anyone who views the world differently but thought some of you might find the info interesting. Please pm me if you would like more info re innate/acquired immune system.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Longdog

[Mas1981]

Hi Everyone,

I have been reading these comments and have found some very useful information (eg. alloe vera, apple cider vinegar & chamomile tea).

However, I would like to add some info regarding the comments on "boosting" the immune system. I have had an autoimmune illness for 40 years. It is very rare and can be life threatening. To say I have read everything that I can on the immune system that I can lay my hands on is pretty close to reality. Having said that, I am no expert nor am I medically qualified......however, I do point out that even my specialist (world leader in his field) cannot explain how/why autoimmune occurs.

What I have derived from an autoimmune reaction is that the immune system comes in two parts, the innate immune system (first line of defence) and the acquired immune system (second line of defence). The acquired one is the problem for autoimmune illnesses (eg. Rhem arthritis, lupus, CFS, diabetes etc etc), and you don't want to stimulate it and aggravate that one. But the innate one can be safely boosted by some substances and can help keep that that part of the immune system strong and as healthy as possible. It is important to stress that some things for the innate system will affect the acquired one (eg echinacea) but most are fine.

Often the first sign that our acquired immune system is disfunctioning is with allergic reactions ie skin conditions, hayfever etc. At this stage, it appears it can be possible to treat the reaction with such things as diet/supplements etc. Luckily, if it becomes more serious, we can"dumb" down the acquired immune system by using such things as cortizone and other drugs. Judging by a veterinary approach to allergies etc, a dog's immune system appears to be similar.

The bottom line is that the world experts do not have a clue whether autoimmune is heriditary, environmental or (as some drs try and tell me) viral. I don't think we are going to solve it here but I have to stress, I like to hedge my bets (especially where my life is concerned) and I endeavour to have an organic, chemical free environment and diet for myself and my family (including the dog). So far I've beaten the odds so I figure I must be doing something right.

If my dog was reacting to "something" (which she has done in the past) then I would definitely look at environment/diet. It turned out she had an immune reaction caused from overdosing from her vaccinations. This manifested in skin conditions, ear infections and bladder infections. Today, we have to seriously consider everything we do and what we put in our bodies (and that includes the 4xleg ones).

I certainly respect anyone who views the world differently but thought some of you might find the info interesting. Please pm me if you would like more info re innate/acquired immune system.

I think you are right Longdog....