Mas1981 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I started my dog on van recently as he's had itchy skin for the greater part of his life (10 yrs) and was diagnosed with bacterial and fungal infections. The thing is the vet put him on antibiotics before I made the food change and that cleared everything up nicely. Then I was feeding him meat+ nutro kibble. Afterwards he was also put on cortisone for pain relief with another problem, which I was told would also help with itching (even though that was no longer a prob with the ABs). However after starting him on van to replace kibble he started itching on his belly and rubbing his face vigorously.. The ABs and cortisone have not helped. So I'm stopping van and putting him back on nutro just to confirm it was the van causing the prob. Then Im planning to bring him to a natural vet to get help drawing up a diet. Sometimes it might take a bit more work but if the easy way isn't helping ur dog then that acually makes things a lot harder I think I may have made a similar mistake, I feed a food which has no yeast or gluten as my boy suffers from yeast ear infections, but now I have been adding VAN and some mince to his kibble daily and now I am wondering If I have done the wrong thing, he is very itchy at the moment and his ears are flaring, maybe i should stop the VAN as it has grains and yeast in it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 ... I will only use one brand because it has more allantoin left in it and most of them take that out which takes aways some of the glyconutrients. What brand would that be, Steve? good question erny thank you so much steve for the info and, yes, dolers are absolutely on the ball mason's mum, i reckon given what you and sezling are dealing with, i'm really glad i asked the dolers that question before i took the leap ... it's quickly becoming the rule of thumb for me i wish both of you the very best of luck... *waits for steve to answer erny's question* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj2251 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I have just started my british bulldog on VAN and found great success in less then a week. Mind you, I went all out and got the Skin support supplement and omega oil mix, Allerblend and the Complete mix. This comprises his dinner. He gets a meaty bone of some sort of a morning. He only gets natural preservative free treats now too. Wendell has been suffering with contact allergies for most of his short life and we have tried changing kibble (Eagle pack or artemis), antibiotics, cortisone cream, just omega 3, aloe straight from the plant onto his tummy (which helps but not long lasting) and all the medicated washes. Moderate relief, but nothing long term. We did get rid of all the wandering dew out of the yard, but it seems he has found something else to be allergic to, so after reading the brochure on allergies from VAN I thought why not give it a go. Yes, initially the supplement may appear expensive, but a little goes a long way and let's face it, a trip to the Vet will never be less then $40. I figure, if this works, it will be worth it! So far, so good. The rash on his belly has about 70% cleared, his tear stains are fading and his face doesn't smell as much (I think the tear stains were smelly). Wendell also had anal gland problems, so according to Dr Bruce, this diet should help with that too. One more thing, Wendell loves this food! He is a big guts normally and as soon as he finishes USED to go sniffing around in Zoe's bowl, but not anymore, by the time Zoe (the ever slow chewer) has finished, he still is licking his bowl for every last morsel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prydenjoy Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Lots of great info in this post, I might actually try Berri and myself on the Aloe! Steve, will the dogs drink it straight or do you have to somehow force feed them, or add it to their water/food?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Lots of great info in this post, I might actually try Berri and myself on the Aloe! Steve, will the dogs drink it straight or do you have to somehow force feed them, or add it to their water/food?? I can answer that in so far as I have asked the same question of Steve just recently. Steve's answer was that the dogs (in her experience) don't usually mind it mixed in with their food. In my case, because my boy is not eating as he should, I will be delivering it to him via syringe. If your dog will eat it with it mixed in with its food, that would be the nicest and least traumatic (and easiest for everyone) way of delivering it to him/her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 So now think about it - if you or a child had issues with their immune system what would you do to try to boost immunity? Skin allergies are because of an over-active immune system so you don't want to 'boost' the immune system. Although what you probably want to do is go more natural and remove presavtives and fillers from the dogs diet, therefore going natural would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 (edited) So now think about it - if you or a child had issues with their immune system what would you do to try to boost immunity? Skin allergies are because of an over-active immune system so you don't want to 'boost' the immune system. Although what you probably want to do is go more natural and remove presavtives and fillers from the dogs diet, therefore going natural would be a good idea. I'm in two minds on this Sas. I get the "over-active immune" line of thought with the conventional methods being designed to dumb it down a bit (ie suppress the immune system). But I also think along the lines of "the immune system not functioning as it should" (whether that be over-active OR under-active) and therefore think that if the immune system can be nourished (ie supported) by natural means (eg. Aloe Vera Juice) could it not result in the immune system finding its proper functioning level? Edited March 17, 2010 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 So now think about it - if you or a child had issues with their immune system what would you do to try to boost immunity? Skin allergies are because of an over-active immune system so you don't want to 'boost' the immune system. Although what you probably want to do is go more natural and remove presavtives and fillers from the dogs diet, therefore going natural would be a good idea. I'm in two minds on this Sas. I get the "over-active immune" line of thought with the conventional methods being designed to dumb it down a bit (ie suppress the immune system). But I also think along the lines of "the immune system not functioning as it should" (whether that be over-active OR under-active) and therefore think that if the immune system can be nourished (ie supported) by natural means (eg. Aloe Vera Juice) could it not result in the immune system finding its proper functioning level? What would you feed a dog who cannot tolerate bones or a lot of fat and who is kept off wheat, yeast and gluten?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) What would you feed a dog who cannot tolerate bones or a lot of fat and who is kept off wheat, yeast and gluten?? MM - I don't have all the answers for everyone (LOL .... I don't even necessarily have all the answers for my self and my own dog's situation) - without studying into your situation, I couldn't make suggestions specific to your dog's ailment - sorry as I am that you are experiencing this. My genuine question to Sas is exactly that - a genuine question regarding schools of thoughts I have been entertaining regarding a dog's dysfunctional immune system. I guess for you, gamey meats such as Roo Mince; Rabbit; along with whatever available additives there are which provide the balanced nutrients required and that don't have wheat, yeast or gluten included might be a way to go. ??? And of course you'd need to make up for the fact that chewing bones to clean teeth is not an option, by cleaning his teeth for him. My sister uses the Colloidal Silver on a doggy 'finger' tooth brush and has had excellent results from that. I'm not an expert into nutrition and the ailments which affect absorption of nutrients, or even the immune system. But I do have a young boy (dog) with his own set of ailments and I am working very hard (and learning tonnes along the way) to try to set it to rights with the hope that he will be able to live the rest of his life at least for the most part, carefree of ailment which causes the symptoms I'm working on at the moment. Edited March 17, 2010 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 What would you feed a dog who cannot tolerate bones or a lot of fat and who is kept off wheat, yeast and gluten?? MM - I don't have all the answers for everyone (LOL .... I don't even necessarily have all the answers for my self and my own dog's situation) - without studying into your situation, I couldn't make suggestions specific to your dog's ailment - sorry as I am that you are experiencing this. My genuine question to Sas is exactly that - a genuine question regarding schools of thoughts I have been entertaining regarding a dog's dysfunctional immune system. I guess for you, gamey meats such as Roo Mince; Rabbit; along with whatever available additives there are which provide the balanced nutrients required and that don't have wheat, yeast or gluten included might be a way to go. ??? And of course you'd need to make up for the fact that chewing bones to clean teeth is not an option, by cleaning his teeth for him. My sister uses the Colloidal Silver on a doggy 'finger' tooth brush and has had excellent results from that. I'm not an expert into nutrition and the ailments which affect absorption of nutrients, or even the immune system. But I do have a young boy (dog) with his own set of ailments and I am working very hard (and learning tonnes along the way) to try to set it to rights with the hope that he will be able to live the rest of his life at least for the most part, carefree of ailment which causes the symptoms I'm working on at the moment. I am trying my best at the moment to try and provide everything he needs, he is doing well on Holistic Select with a bit of roo mince but its not ideal. I also use colloidal silver on him, especially his ears and he drinks a bit which does seem to help with overall health. I have just noticed though dry flakes in is coat so I am going to have to go back to the drawing board.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prydenjoy Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 MM - Roo mince is very lean and low in fats, I'd also be adding an EFA supplement of some form, that could help with the flakes. When you say intolerant to bone do you mean eating whole bones? Some butchers will mince chicken necks etc with offal etc so all you need to do is add veggies and EFA's if minced bone will solve your problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 MM - Roo mince is very lean and low in fats, I'd also be adding an EFA supplement of some form, that could help with the flakes.When you say intolerant to bone do you mean eating whole bones? Some butchers will mince chicken necks etc with offal etc so all you need to do is add veggies and EFA's if minced bone will solve your problem? he is getting his roo meat and kibble daily at this stage so I am not worried about him not getting enough fats. He usually pukes or gets the runs from bones, havent tried minced bone but I can bet I will have a problem finding a butcher near here to do it for me, I stay quite far from everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sezling Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) Hi just thought I'd update how things are. So I stopped the VAN and the rashes started to subside. Now several days on his skin is no longer itchy when I rub it! Glad I could be of help Skruffy.. if u did want though, since all dogs are different as you can tell by others saying their dogs have seen success with the product, I could give you some to try? I've got more than half a bag of the complete mix sitting here.. duno what to do with it O_o Edited March 20, 2010 by sezling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Used VAN for quite a while and it suited most of my dogs but my Dobe boy who suffers from allergies. Switched to BARF and the allergies definitely lessened and the skin improved out of sight. Would not go back to VAN now, even for the ones that were OK on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted March 20, 2010 Author Share Posted March 20, 2010 ... I went all out and got the Skin support supplement and omega oil mix, Allerblend and the Complete mix. ... this is what i was looking at also and i'm really glad to read you've had success with it! Wendell has been suffering with contact allergies for most of his short life and we have tried changing kibble (Eagle pack or artemis), antibiotics, cortisone cream, just omega 3, aloe straight from the plant onto his tummy (which helps but not long lasting) and all the medicated washes. Moderate relief, but nothing long term. We did get rid of all the wandering dew out of the yard, but it seems he has found something else to be allergic to, so after reading the brochure on allergies from VAN I thought why not give it a go. i haven't yet been able to determine the cause of byron's allergy issue - as his vet said the other week, happy to take a scraping, but there's nothing to scrape! i recently introduced artemis to both his and bella's diet and i'm hoping it will help stablise his condition... ... So far, so good. The rash on his belly has about 70% cleared, his tear stains are fading and his face doesn't smell as much (I think the tear stains were smelly). Wendell also had anal gland problems, so according to Dr Bruce, this diet should help with that too. this damn near sold me... ... brilliant success story aj! thanks for the info who knows! if i don't have success curing byron's itchies on the current plan, then i might still give van a go... So now think about it - if you or a child had issues with their immune system what would you do to try to boost immunity? Skin allergies are because of an over-active immune system so you don't want to 'boost' the immune system. Although what you probably want to do is go more natural and remove presavtives and fillers from the dogs diet, therefore going natural would be a good idea. I'm in two minds on this Sas. I get the "over-active immune" line of thought with the conventional methods being designed to dumb it down a bit (ie suppress the immune system). But I also think along the lines of "the immune system not functioning as it should" (whether that be over-active OR under-active) and therefore think that if the immune system can be nourished (ie supported) by natural means (eg. Aloe Vera Juice) could it not result in the immune system finding its proper functioning level? frankly, i don't know what side of this argument makes the most sense but what i tend to believe is that animals in the wild have naturally occuring defence systems to combat all the nasties and because we bombard our domestic pets with all these synthetic and toxic chemicals to keep all the nasties at bay, those defences, still naturally occuring, no longer have a job and therefore manifest themselves in other ways ... admittedly, i don't have the stats on life expectancy in the wild but going natural certainly has my vote... Hi just thought I'd update how things are. So I stopped the VAN and the rashes started to subside. Now several days on his skin is no longer itchy when I rub it! Glad I could be of help Skruffy.. if u did want though, since all dogs are different as you can tell by others saying their dogs have seen success with the product, I could give you some to try? I've got more than half a bag of the complete mix sitting here.. duno what to do with it O_o i'm really happy to read this sezling and i so very much appreciate your very kind offer but i'm continuing with barf at this stage ... if i do turn to van it will likely be the plan aj is currently using ;) Used VAN for quite a while and it suited most of my dogs but my Dobe boy who suffers from allergies.Switched to BARF and the allergies definitely lessened and the skin improved out of sight. Would not go back to VAN now, even for the ones that were OK on it. right, and there we go... *thinking* but then maybe the skin support program is still an option for byron if my current plan doesn't succeed! thanks stitch ... i'm a yuge fan of barf too and i love hearing all the success stories from ppl that feed it to their pets an update now from me! byron's itching has subsided this past week but i don't know whether it was the topical applications of essential 6 spot-on, calendula tea, 50:50 acv or 100% aloe vera gel [not all at once!] --- yup, his itching got that bad! he still has a flushed appearance in some areas of his body and he still licks his forepaws but not as often ... the base of his tail still aggravates him a little tho but his back no longer ripples nor does he beat his back legs when i scratch for him... i'm close to working out his diet i'll save the parasite treatment regime for another thread ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 (edited) K9 Natural is another option . http://www.pookinuk.com.au/product-selecte...&noGoBack=1 Edited March 21, 2010 by Tiggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 K9 Natural is another option .http://www.pookinuk.com.au/product-selecte...&noGoBack=1 thanks tiggy i'd actually looked at that too and i've a mind to try my two on it in any event cuz we're going on a dog-friendly holiday later in the year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj2251 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Hey, just thought I'd add, in the interest of full disclosure, Wendell recently had a flare up over the weekend, even though my partner swears he didn't feed him any kibble for a snack (I have my doubts), he did admit he gave him a small amount of tuna brine (which has never been a part of his diet before) and we tried him on some home made dried liver (omg that stuff stinks!) So, now I am concerned about the diet. But I believe in giving any treatment or program a fair trial period and since I saw such a miraculous improvement before I believe I think I will again. So, I will stick to it for the 6-8 weeks as it says and will reassess then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 thanks aj for the update and you are absolutely correct: no point in going to all that trouble only to find that your own anxiety and frustration rushes you to modify so as to get immediate results ... i deal with that too and i'm learning to take a step back and let things adjust. ya see, byron's symptoms subsided ONLY after i plied him topically with 4 different applications ... i don't know whether it was just one thing, several, the lot combined or it was his immune system on its own adjusting! i'd applied the week before a flea spot-on ... he could very well have been reacting to that one single thing and that's why i'm also researching more natural methods for treating fleas or using comfortis or capstar on both my dogs but only when fleas are prevalent or during the flea season! i've heard tho that you don't necessarily have to see fleas for them to reside on your dogs!??!? ... tuff situation to say the least!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj2251 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Hey, just anonther update, Wendell, well and truly on the mend now, have had him on some chinese herbs, that were slowly helping, but then I decided to try the Apple Cider Vinegar in his food and noticed a significant difference overnight. The angry looking, inflammed lumps lessened and he's about 85% good, it just seemed to really turn the healing on. But the herbs I'm sure were doing alot of the work in his system, he was just taking longer to respond then previously (over a week). I had tried the calendula tea, didn't seem to have any effect, then I went back to the good ole aloe straight off the plant (which we had success with previously), didn't seem to alleviate the itch or redness. Now, it's just a matter of crossing the fingers and hoping he stays good! I'll keep him on the ACV I think since it is supposed to be good for many things, and he doesn't care that I put it in his food. Hope your furry one doing ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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