It's Not My Business I Know....

[Skruffy n Flea]

srsly, i would be sweet-talking your fb friend around to your thinking ... i wouldn't contact the breeder myself but get her to understant that it's the right and proper thing for her to do and quick smart [even if her dog isn't pregnant]! breeders [without any experience myself but it makes damn good sense] are a wealth of information and yeah, i reckon i'd be interested to know that one of my pups was about to have a dangerous litter, likely even a c-section...

be wise cassie, take the high road here but don't damage whatever relationship you have with your friend ... she's in a difficult position and how you handle it will fairly dictate the outcome! breathe, don't condemn her ... it's a situation she doesn't seem to have a whole helluva lotta control over!

you have in the palm of your hand an uneducated dog owner ... now's the time to help her, she needs you...

on the down side, if she fails to follow thru with your wisdom and advice, be sure to contact the breeder yourself ... no bones baby, from what i've read in this thread, this shit is serious!

good luck :cool:

[Steve]

Whats done is done and there's not much point in hammering her for an accident.

If you dont know what a male and female dog can be like when they are horny it can come as a surprise and what comes next is more important than what just happened.

I would still want to know if it were one of mine and I would try to talk to her about what to expect, her options and what she needs to do to ensure those puppies dont end up in accidents in a years time.

If breeders are not going to desex their puppies before they go home even if they have contracts in place for desexing they need to work through what happens when a dog is in season.How to see the signs she is coming in and what to do to manage this before anyone gets to this.They also need to explain how male dogs will do almost anything to get a bit and what is needed to prevent that from happening.

That bitch was in its own back yard and its not as if it was running the neighbourhood.

There is not a pet over population problem. Puppies are rarely dumped and we purebred breeders dont breed anywhere near enough to fill orders.Rescue which take pregnant dogs dont have problems finding homes for their puppies and puppy farmers breed up to 6000 puppies each per year and find homes for them all. Approx 250,000 ADULT dogs per year are killed after ending up in pounds and shelters.

That is an irresponsible owner issue and it starts from when they buy dogs which they have no knowledge of what its going to take to own it , love it and manage it and finishes when they cant live with it. Part if that management is knowing what happens when dogs get horny and having a plan to prevent it getting pregnant if they choose to keep them entire.

justin19801 You're right legally and morally when someone has paid for their dog its their's to with as they please however,

we cant have it both ways.We want breeders to be there for their puppy buyers if things go wrong for advice and a saftey net so the dog can come back to the breeder rather than ending up on death row. We want them to be interested in and be responsible for health issues and cover genetic issues long after the dog has gone home.We call for the bad purebred breeder to refund and be responible for things like HD and the incidence of HD in male dogs which have been desexed before 12 months of age is over 60% higher than if they are not desexed so its not all that simple.

[Clyde]

At the end of the day the dog is hers and legally, she can do whatever she likes with her. She sounds like a tool though. I've been faced with this dilemma a few times with clients dogs and knowing where they got them from, I chose not to 'dob' on them. So long as the dogs needs are met I felt it was best left alone. Icky dilemma for you though. :cool:

[ellz]

As a breeder, I would also be interested in knowing that she didn't make proper arrangements for a bitch in season so that I was forewarned if she should decide that she wanted another puppy from me in the future. The outcome of this would certainly be an indicator of any future possibilities for her in my eyes.

[~Shepherd~]

If your such a strong advocate of the pound situation and dogs in general, spend the time you would be bitching on this person by taking some shelter dogs for a walk. Amazing what you can achieve when you are on a mission.

[Clyde]

If your such a strong advocate of the pound situation and dogs in general, spend the time you would be bitching on this person by taking some shelter dogs for a walk. Amazing what you can achieve when you are on a mission.

Oh please

edited to clarify for RnL.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Clyde

[OSoSwift]

Um Sorry? The reason for that was what exactly?

[cassie]

Thankyou to everyone for your responses.

If she can't get down to the vet for an injection what will she do if the dog need a c-section?? Is there no local vet where she is??

She lives in country SA, I don't know how many vets there would be near her, or how far away exactly, or if they'd be available for an emergency caesar at 1am on a Sunday! But yes definitely things she should be thinking about.

No real advice to add cassie but well done to you for putting the facts out there to her

Thankyou, I am trying

If you are not worried about saving a relationship, then I would seriously think about emailing the breeder anyway as they obviously only have the backyard to keep her in and that is not adequate. If she isn't pregnant this time, she may well be next time.

I also agree if it is too hard to go to the vets for a needle it will be too hard for a caesar.

Good luck with what you choose to do.

That's what I was thinking too, if not now then next time. It's not fair on the bitch for one thing.

I'd be keeping my lip zipped as far as the breeder is concerned. The breeder can't do anything now.

Thanks for your input PF. Can I ask why you'd not tell the breeder? Would you want to know if you'd bred the dog? Genuine questions, thankyou in advance I like hearing the different perspectives that's all, it's helping me decide which direction to take here...

From her comments posted here, my guess is that she will probably decide to have the pups, if her girl is indeed pregnant. What she will need is some support/advice on pregnancy and whelping, even if just to try and mitigate the risks to the dam and pups. Is there anyone she can turn to for advice and support?

I'm not sure if she has anyone knowledgeable who could step in or help her out, I don't think so though. That's why I'm trying to urge her to contact her breeder! If she doesn't, I am very tempted to.

Cassie, if you were the dogs breeder would you want to know (am sure I know the answer to that!)?

I'd stop conversations with her for the time being and contact the breeder (email would be fine).

Explain the situation to them and how you are unsure if the girl is actually pregnant but that you are concerned for her welfare and that as a dedicated dog owner you feel that what your 'friend' is doing isn't quite correct.

Surely since the girl is entire there must be a contract of some sort in place and therefore it is likely that it is in the breeders best interest to know the situation.

ETA: If the girl has the pups and all runs smoothly by chance, it may also make your 'friend' think that breeding puppies makes money and be the start of another BYB....

Thanks Michelle. At the moment I am leaning towards emailing them to let them know what I know.

If your such a strong advocate of the pound situation and dogs in general, spend the time you would be bitching on this person by taking some shelter dogs for a walk. Amazing what you can achieve when you are on a mission.

I don't think this comment was necessary. Thanks anyway, but I don't see this thread as me bitching about someone, I see it as me asking advice on what is the right thing for me to do, butt out or get more involved.

[casowner]

I think you should offer her as much helpful advice as possible without alienating her. Yes mistakes happen, I remember a topic on here a while a go asking what breeders would do in the case of an accidental litter. I believe there was a few (can't quite remember the percentage) that said they would let the bitch whelp, desex the pups and rehome them.

I remember a breeder bring an "oops" litter of Alaskan Malamutes cross Curly Coated Retriever puppies to the AWL a few years ago, these were the single most gorgeous pups I have ever seen but a few came back due to temperament/aggression issues.

Yes the breeder may want to know, but I would recommend trying to get your friend to contact them for advice themselves.

As I like to say Educate, not Alienate.

Edited March 13, 2010 by casowner