It's Not My Business I Know....

[cassie]

I am in a slight predicament. A girl on my Facebook who I know from primary school has a purebred dog of a certain breed, which she got from a very well known and highly resepcted breeder. She's just posted a new facebook status: "If anyone in (her area) is interested in a pure bred (her breed) cross pure bred staffie pup we will have them in the near future... lacey is pregnant!!! they will be gorgeous pups" Sorry but I do not particularly want to say what her breed is, as it may very well give the breeders away and I don't want to do that publicly, but they are not common dogs.

Current responses to her status are:

"is this her first bunch of babies??"

My "friend" :D wrote: "yeah her first.. and by accident lol"

"Awwwwww can we have one?"

And I've just written "What on earth, why would you crossbreed your pedigree girl? Do (breeder) and (breeder) know?"

I know the breeders, sort of. Only through the dog world and not very well, although others here would, but what on earth should I do? Tell them? Butt out? Advice welcomed.

EFS

Edited March 12, 2010 by cassie

[Steve]

You're right its not your business but if thats a dog I bred Id appreciate it if you made it your business.

[cassie]

Steve so you're saying I should tell the breeders? Would an email suffice?

Just an update of what she wrote on facebook:

"we didnt purposely cross breed her cassie... the dog next door pushed our fence over to get to her when she was on heat, it was accidental"

and I replied:

"But that's why bitches on heat need to be properly contained, to prevent accidents from happening. What if she had of been injured during the mating or the tie? What if there are complications during whelping and you lose her? :D "

[cassie]

Ok now she's just sent me a private message:

"way to put a dampener on the situation, thanks for that and thanks for making me feel bad... like i said it wasnt our fault it was the dog next door! we had her contained as much as we could"

What do I reply to this girl?????????!!!!!!!!! Or should I not bother with her and go straight to the breeders? I wonder if she signed a contract with them that she was not to be bred from? Although I suppose it wouldn't be worth much :D

[ellz]

I'd be asking why she didn't take her to the vet and have her needled and if there is any reason why the bitch wasn't speyed in the first place.

And yes, like Steve, it's not your business but if it were a dog I'd bred, I'd like you to make it mine! :D

[cassie]

Ellz when you say "take her to the vet and have her needled" do you mean abort the pregnancy? (Sorry, not completely with all the lingo :D ) I'm not sure how many weeks she is, how far along can you safely abort puppies?

[ellz]

I think they can be needled to abort the pregnancy up to around the 42 day mark (on average a dog pregnancy is 59 - 63 days).

There is also the option of removing the puppies and uterus all at once. Some vets won't do this due to the increased blood and risk of haemorrhage, but many vets would rather do this than have another litter of unneccessary puppies on the ground.

[OSoSwift]

I would also want to know if it was a dog I had bred. It is a small world and people are going to find out.

If it is in around the first 4 or 5 weeks of her pregnancy she can be aborted as far as I know.

Also depending on her breed, Stafford X pups can have boofy heads and get stuck. Is she up for a caesar? A/H's possibly as well?????

Give her a run down of all the potential disaters and you may be able to sway her. If their is a reason possibilty of a Caesar I would ask her if she has a few thousand dollars to lose? (Could cost that if after hours and depending on vets charges) Also all babies may die and then cannot even try to re-coup money towards the costs.

I feel for you, but I would send an email asking the breeder not to identify it was me that told them, but at least they have the knowledge early in the piece.

[nickojoy]

I'm with Ellz on this one... Why wasn't she desexed? Another reason why rescue groups don't like breeders as they allow dogs to go to homes like this breed cross pups and the pups will grow into dogs and end up in pounds because they are no longer cute.

Sorry breeders - but you ethical ones know exactly what I am saying here and this is why you have contracts, limited register and encourage desexing. Other's don't care as long as they get the quick cash in their pockets.

[nickojoy]

I think they can be needled to abort the pregnancy up to around the 42 day mark (on average a dog pregnancy is 59 - 63 days).

There is also the option of removing the puppies and uterus all at once. Some vets won't do this due to the increased blood and risk of haemorrhage, but many vets would rather do this than have another litter of unneccessary puppies on the ground.

I have heard of plenty of dogs being sprung from the pound pregnant, and taken to be desexed and they were full term and the carers not knowing they were full term. No affect on the bitch in any way.

[Crisovar]

I'm with Ellz on this one... Why wasn't she desexed? Another reason why rescue groups don't like breeders as they allow dogs to go to homes like this breed cross pups and the pups will grow into dogs and end up in pounds because they are no longer cute.

Sorry breeders - but you ethical ones know exactly what I am saying here and this is why you have contracts, limited register and encourage desexing. Other's don't care as long as they get the quick cash in their pockets.

And how do you know that the Breeder of this bitch hasn't done all these things.

In an ideal world people would be responsible and use their heads, we shouldn't have to legislate, draw up contracts or rip the organs out of baby pups to stop this.

[ellz]

I have heard of plenty of dogs being sprung from the pound pregnant, and taken to be desexed and they were full term and the carers not knowing they were full term. No affect on the bitch in any way.

Double standards on the part of some vets unfortunately. They'll do it for rescue but many are reluctant to do it for Joe Q off the street unfortunately.

[ellz]

I'm with Ellz on this one... Why wasn't she desexed? Another reason why rescue groups don't like breeders as they allow dogs to go to homes like this breed cross pups and the pups will grow into dogs and end up in pounds because they are no longer cute.

Sorry breeders - but you ethical ones know exactly what I am saying here and this is why you have contracts, limited register and encourage desexing. Other's don't care as long as they get the quick cash in their pockets.

And how do you know that the Breeder of this bitch hasn't done all these things.

In an ideal world people would be responsible and use their heads, we shouldn't have to legislate, draw up contracts or rip the organs out of baby pups to stop this.

And in an ideal world, people would ensure that their in-season bitches were safely contained so that next-door's dog couldn't knock over the fence and get to them too. :D

Or alternatively, people would have their companion animals desexed so as to prevent the above from occurring.

[Golden Rules]

If it were me, I'd not make further comment to your friend about it, and email the breeder - although there isn't much can be done now I guess.

[fifi]

If it was a bitch I bred, I'd want to know.

but be prepared for the backlash from your friend, I imagine she'll put two & two together and work out who it was.

So unless you are able to deal with your friend's anger, and maybe thanks, or indiffernce or annoyance from the breeder, then don't go there.

If you do, keep it factual, short and polite :-)

ffi

[Golden Rules]

You could always say to your friend you thought it was worthwhile her breeder knowing as she would have invaluable advice and knowledge with whelping?

[cassie]

I think they can be needled to abort the pregnancy up to around the 42 day mark (on average a dog pregnancy is 59 - 63 days).

There is also the option of removing the puppies and uterus all at once. Some vets won't do this due to the increased blood and risk of haemorrhage, but many vets would rather do this than have another litter of unneccessary puppies on the ground.

Thanks Ellz. I will try to find out how far along she is if I can.

I would also want to know if it was a dog I had bred. It is a small world and people are going to find out.

If it is in around the first 4 or 5 weeks of her pregnancy she can be aborted as far as I know.

Also depending on her breed, Stafford X pups can have boofy heads and get stuck. Is she up for a caesar? A/H's possibly as well?????

Give her a run down of all the potential disaters and you may be able to sway her. If their is a reason possibilty of a Caesar I would ask her if she has a few thousand dollars to lose? (Could cost that if after hours and depending on vets charges) Also all babies may die and then cannot even try to re-coup money towards the costs.

I feel for you, but I would send an email asking the breeder not to identify it was me that told them, but at least they have the knowledge early in the piece.

Thanks Rommi n Lewis. Her breed of dog is also one with a boofy head Recipe for disaster much!!! I don't know enough, but I am pretty sure her breed is not one that gives birth easily either, and can have large litters. To top it off, it's a large/giant breed, crossed with a Stafford :D At least the bitch is the large one, but surely the pups won't be sound?

I'm with Ellz on this one... Why wasn't she desexed? Another reason why rescue groups don't like breeders as they allow dogs to go to homes like this breed cross pups and the pups will grow into dogs and end up in pounds because they are no longer cute.

Sorry breeders - but you ethical ones know exactly what I am saying here and this is why you have contracts, limited register and encourage desexing. Other's don't care as long as they get the quick cash in their pockets.

Hi Nickojoy. I am not a buyer from this particular breeder so cannot answer your question EXACTLY, but I can say that the breed is a large/giant breed, so perhaps the breeder tells their buyers to wait until a certain age before desexing? Like I said I don't KNOW that this is the case, I am only stipulating.

Thanks for everyone's input. Some more conversation between her and I:

HER:

way to put a dampener on the situation, thanks for that and thanks for making me feel bad... like i said it wasnt our fault it was the dog next door! we had her contained as much as we could

ME:

"Contained as much as we could" isn't good enough though, did you know she was on heat? Do (breeder) and (breeder) know she's pregnant?

HER:

how is this any of ur business and why do u care... its not ur dog that this is happening to! its our problem and it happened theres not much we can do about it now, accidents happen

ME:

I care because I know the breeders, and they wouldn't want a dog of their breeding being crossbred. It's not safe to Lacey or to the potential pups. And there's plenty you can still do about it! If you contact (vet) he can fix this with a simple injection, much kinder to everyone really. I'll assume by your response that (breeder) doesn't know yet.

I am not saying any of this to be nasty, quite the opposite! I care about dogs and the purebred dog world. I care that hundreds of thousands of puppies and dogs are put to sleep each year because no one wants them. Lacey may have 15 or more puppies! What will you do if you can't find homes for them? If you bring them into this world then you're responsible for them.

A giant breed crossed with a smaller breed is a recipe for disaster, the pups will NOT be sound and will have joint issues at the very least, among other problems. No health testing has been conducted before the dogs were mated. Also do you know how to assist with a whelping? What do you do if something goes wrong? If a pup gets stuck and she needs an emergency caesar? You'd be up for thousands of dollars in vet bills among everything else. Raising puppies is not a walk in the park either.

I'm trying to help you here. I know you may be excited by the thought of puppies but please look through that and please try to understand the points I am getting at, for Lacey's sake if nothing else.

*************

Disclaimer! If I've said anything - eg. the hundreds of thousands PTS each year - that is incorrect, I'll apologise for it here on DOL but the aim was to shock her and make her think, my apologies if any of it isn't 100% accurate!

[cassie]

If it was a bitch I bred, I'd want to know.

but be prepared for the backlash from your friend, I imagine she'll put two & two together and work out who it was.

So unless you are able to deal with your friend's anger, and maybe thanks, or indiffernce or annoyance from the breeder, then don't go there.

If you do, keep it factual, short and polite :-)

ffi

Thanks Fifi. To be honest I'm not worried about ruining the relationship with her or anything, she was a friend in primary school, that is all, we are no longer what I'd call "friends", merely acqaintances who occassionally chat on facebook. I haven't seen her in years!

Any advice on what to say to the breeder? As I don't really know them too well, I'm thinking email might be the go.

You could always say to your friend you thought it was worthwhile her breeder knowing as she would have invaluable advice and knowledge with whelping?

That is a good idea, thankyou Golden Rules :D Even though I'm not too concerned what she thinks of me after this, as I know that I am only trying to do the right thing.

[cassie]

Hmmmm here's the latest:

HER:

we dont know how far along she is though, wouldnt there be a point where its too late for an injection? and its hard for us to just get down to adelaide to get (vet) to do it

ME:

How do you know she's preggers then? It's possible she's having a false pregnancy, their boobs can still swell etc and all the signs may be there. She needs an ultrasound or blood test to confirm one way or the other, neither should be too pricey. When did the Stafford mate with her?

HER:

not sure when he got through the fence, she only came off heat about 2 or 3 weeks ago... we are gonna take her to the vet soon for shots anyway so will ask em about it then

***************

:D So she doesn't actually KNOW that the bitch is pregnant! So now I'm not sure if I should bother telling the breeder or not? If I do and the bitch is not pregnant, I sort of feel like I interferred for nothing If I don't say anything though and it turns out she IS pregnant, I may feel worse!

Breeders, anyone, any advice? Sorry guys I'm just a bit torn on what to do.

[Guest Willow]

HER:

how is this any of ur business and why do u care...

She kind of made it your business by putting the info out there on Facebook!