Allergies

[persephone]

I like your explanation, erny :D

[Erny]

What I think would be interesting, would be to run a poll asking everyone on dol whether their dogs have ever been diagnosed or displayed some sort of allergy to either the environment and/or food.

I think the poll would be inundated with "yes" responses, Stormie.

In my boy's case it seems that his allergies are not contact or food specific related. It seems more that something is disfunctional with his digestive system and toxicity from poor digestion builds up to the point the liver can't deal with it, so the toxicity comes out in the form of hives. When I've read polls/threads about allergies, my boy's situation gets a bit left out.

[whippets]

Auto-immune diseases in humans are skyrocketing. For example asthma has increased by 58% in the last ten years (National Institute of Health). I don't see any reason who dogs (or other domestic animals) would be any different as far as allergies and auto-immune diseases.

I blame our environment, processed foods, synthetic chemical overload and our way of living. People, who like to see their name in journal articles, tend to blame close COI though :cool:

[Erny]

close COI :cool:

What's "COI" (I'm sure it's something obvious, but I don't feel like thinking).

[poodlefan]

close COI :cool:

What's "COI" (I'm sure it's something obvious, but I don't feel like thinking).

Coefficient of Inbreeding

[poodlefan]

Auto-immune diseases in humans are skyrocketing. For example asthma has increased by 58% in the last ten years (National Institute of Health). I don't see any reason who dogs (or other domestic animals) would be any different as far as allergies and auto-immune diseases.

I blame our environment, processed foods, synthetic chemical overload and our way of living. People, who like to see their name in journal articles, tend to blame close COI though :cool:

You can add stress, poor general health (obesity, poor diet) and some genetic triggers, sometimes linked to colour. White and dilute dogs seem particularly prone to skin allergies.

[Erny]

Thanks PF. I never would have guessed it, so I don't feel quite so dumb :cool:.

[Rappie]

she tutored me on natural remedies and in particular the use of organics in that neat application may have a negative impact on his ph balance and to always dilute the product and to brush daily to stimulate circulation ... she also sold me a topical spot-on application that contains the essential omega oils [i can't just now remember what it's called] - it's a weekly application [containing 4 pipettes] for 8 weeks and then one application per fortnight following...

This product is called "Essential 6". I think it's distributed by Pure Animal Wellbeing (PAW) - I've read the tech info and it sounds quite useful, would be interested in the results. I know one of the Sydney dermatologists is using it at the moment too.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Rappie

[Skruffy n Flea]

she tutored me on natural remedies and in particular the use of organics in that neat application may have a negative impact on his ph balance and to always dilute the product and to brush daily to stimulate circulation ... she also sold me a topical spot-on application that contains the essential omega oils [i can't just now remember what it's called] - it's a weekly application [containing 4 pipettes] for 8 weeks and then one application per fortnight following...

This product is called "Essential 6". I think it's distributed by Pure Animal Wellbeing (PAW) - I've read the tech info and it sounds quite useful, would be interested in the results. I know one of the Sydney dermatologists is using it at the moment too.

thanks rappie :cool: yes, it is called 'essential 6' distributed by paw! it's a topical nutritional spot-on containing essential fatty acids (omega 3 & 6) and essential oils to replenish the hydrolipidic film and maintain a healthy coat and skin. it also cautions to avoid direct exposure to light, humidity and high temperature above 40C ... and should not be applied two days before or after washing

the pack reads that it's specially formulated to:

- restore the hydrolipidic film to achieve optimal skin hydration;

- maintain a healthy cutaneous eco-system balance;

- reduce shedding; and

- deodorse your dog naturally ... it sorta a clinical smell to it tho.

it cost $35.45 [holey moley!!! that's 8.86 per pipette!]

byron's first application was last weekend and he's had a flare-up since ... it got so bad last night that i was up 'til midnight treating him with stopsitch, [a by-product of the australian tea tree oil industry] and he's getting some relief from it ... i did the same tonight massaging his back with aloveen conditioner as well and that seems to have helped too :D

if i can at least treat his symptoms i can then apply some time to sorting out the cause ... that is my aim :D

[Skruffy n Flea]

ya know, reading thru all the posts in this thread, particularly those concerning the overuse of 20th/21st century remedies and such just rings so true with me ... because tho i am so conditioned i am reticent to discontinue regular worming and flea treatments!

i wish i had the guts cuz not only do i *think* byron is predisposed to genetic alergy issues because of his 'breeder's' sloppy performance [pun intended] i fear i would be doing him and bella [not to mention the neighbourhood dogs] a grave disservice by not treating...

how i crave a simpler time...

[persephone]

Ok- so if that spot on oil stuff works- does that then mean that by bathing in chemicals to excess we are constantly removing surface oils and therefore not allowing the skin to function as it should?

my poor allergic dog in Melbourne used to get all the malaseb baths, etc- the prednil....

One thing which did give him some relief was injections of Vitamin C, from a vet who, back then was 'odd' :cool:

[Erny]

Ok- so if that spot on oil stuff works- does that then mean that by bathing in chemicals to excess we are constantly removing surface oils and therefore not allowing the skin to function as it should?

That's my theory, Perse. I think of the 'pendulum swing' - shampoos/chemicals to fix the symptoms, making the pendulum swing way over one way and then to counteract the affect of the shampoos/chemicals altering PH levels (and/or whatever else they do), the system/skin goes into overdrive, swinging the pendulum way the other way, and so it continues.

When my boy suffered his first bout of acute hives, I was in danger of switching to panic mode, so wanting to just fix them and not have them itching him. I wanted them gone fast - I hated to see him uncomfortable. The Vet (Dr Bruce Syme) was the one who spoke with me and convinced me not to worry; not to bounce in to using shampoos; and to let the system/skin sort it out. He was the one who suggested the use of Calendula tea wash to help avoid secondary skin infection - explaining THAT was the only concern, not the hives themselves. He told me, IF I had to (ie if my boy was itching to the point of self-harm) I could give him an antihistamine.

I purchased the antihistamine and put the packet in the pantry as a stand-by. And I switched into "patience" mode. And I used the Calendula tea. Most of everyone know what I think of Calendula Tea. Great stuff. It helped the hives and his oily, smelly skin/coat. And it was enough to let me let my boy's system work things through, trying to find that balance of the pendulum, to avoid sending it in to exaggerated 'swings' one way or the other. As it turned out, because I held my breath and gave a little time (a couple of days) and saw the Calendula Tea was easing the worst of things, I didn't need to administer the antihistamine. After a year, it still remains an un-opened packet in the pantry - still on "stand-by" should I need to use it on him at all. The washes we use, regardless of what we use, doesn't fix the underlying reason for the skin outbreaks but can help in avoiding the secondary infections that can occur. It's just that something that contains the ingredients that does the job and is minus the manufactured chemical component has got to be better for the skin. We are so conditioned to think that if it doesn't froth, it ain't cleaning. The skin in fact will self clean to a big degree if it is functioning correctly. With my boy's condition I still have need of the Calendula Tea (although to a lesser degree) and I haven't needed to bath him for a full year now.

Typically human (conditioned), I initially didn't feel I was doing anything as I wasn't applying something that was labelled as being specifically manufactured for the job. But since then, having seen the good results more natural methods can attain, I've done a fair amount of 'un-conditioning' and I'm very much into using natural treatments that are minus the chemical and potentially-damaging-to-other-things, type treatments, wherever I possibly can.

Scruffy n Flea - Regarding worming - I too was a bit uneasy about not worming regularly. With my avatar girl (bless her cotton socks), I was one of those "did everything right" people. I look back now and don't agree that I did everything "right" by her. I wormed every 3 months religiously. She was heartwormed protected (in a climate that doesn't really need it, I now see). She was vaccinated every 12 months. She had flea and mite control (thought the fact she didn't have fleas was because of that - but proven wrong on that count as I don't do this to my boy and he doesn't have fleas).

What I do is provide a stool sample to the Vet periodically (no special visit - just when I happen to be seeing the Vet for whatever other reason) and get them to do a worm burden count. It only takes a few minutes and they can give an answer on the spot. So far, no worms evident from that. I'm used to it now - I'm actually more comfortable with the fact that I don't administer worming drugs to my dog on a regular and probably unnecessary basis.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Erny

[Nekhbet]

Yes I too do not believe in unnecessary chemicals. Many dogs these days get flead monthly, wormed 3 monthly, vaccinated yearly, heartwormed, shampood, chemicals in the foods etc then remember the chemicals also in the products, flea products are mostly a solvent

it's a lot for a body to take. These are products made to kill another organism, and although the biological receptors in a dog may be different to the target species can we REALLY guarentee no long term harm? What about the other chemicals within? Some chemicals are also not completely non toxic, they only are in large doses .. well can we prove no harm comes from long term small dose use?

Allergies, cancers and other conditions are becoming more and more prevelant in dogs. There are alternatives, in fact I fixed my rotties allergies and pain with less vet visits and more brain work. Instead of being a moulting, red raw itching cripple he now shines, has healthy skin, never scratches, the yeasts in his ears are gone and he runs about happily. We're too chemical happy these days I think for animals and people.

[ridgiemum]

Keep in mind that allergies are actually due to an overactive immune system, so is it really a 'weakened' immune system?

Agree with sas too, I think a major cause is genetics because so many people don't understand that breeding a dog with any type of allergy, even if it's only minor, can create a severely allergic pup.

Until we can learn how to test for it though, it becomes hard.

I agree (genetics), my previous ridgeback had really bad allergies every spring/summer, we saw the breeder several years later & most of the pups had the same thing & he had stopped breeding with that line.

[Lab_Rat]

In my boy's case it seems that his allergies are not contact or food specific related. It seems more that something is disfunctional with his digestive system and toxicity from poor digestion builds up to the point the liver can't deal with it, so the toxicity comes out in the form of hives. When I've read polls/threads about allergies, my boy's situation gets a bit left out.

I was wondering how your boy was going Erny! My girl has similar problems to Mandela, and Im always searching for something to help her digestive system or immune system. I am trying Digestive enzymes at the moment - too early to tell yet. But yesterday I found an ad for Spirulina, and more interestingly Chlorella which Im itching to try not only for Zola but for myself too. Google it and see what you think. Rather than jump in and add it to her increasing number of things to try though, Im going to finish the bottle of enzymes and see what affect they have, may even get her blood tested afterwards to see if things have changed.

Yes I too do not believe in unnecessary chemicals. Many dogs these days get flead monthly, wormed 3 monthly, vaccinated yearly, heartwormed, shampood, chemicals in the foods etc then remember the chemicals also in the products, flea products are mostly a solvent

it's a lot for a body to take. These are products made to kill another organism, and although the biological receptors in a dog may be different to the target species can we REALLY guarentee no long term harm? What about the other chemicals within? Some chemicals are also not completely non toxic, they only are in large doses .. well can we prove no harm comes from long term small dose use?

Allergies, cancers and other conditions are becoming more and more prevelant in dogs. There are alternatives, in fact I fixed my rotties allergies and pain with less vet visits and more brain work. Instead of being a moulting, red raw itching cripple he now shines, has healthy skin, never scratches, the yeasts in his ears are gone and he runs about happily. We're too chemical happy these days I think for animals and people.

What was your plan of attack Nekhbet?? I would be interested to know!

I tend to agree with the over-preventative-medication being part of why our dogs are in the situation they are allergy wise. A good example I think are my two dogs! Our Kelpie is farm bred, unknown history really when it comes to genetics. Guaranteed to not have been wormed regularly or vaccinated. She doesnt have any allergies whatsoever, environmental or food wise. The ridgy is "well bred", from a long time registered breeder. She has issues - both pollens and foods. Her ancestors would have been wormed and vaccinated regularly and fair enough too I suppose.

This pair now are not routinely wormed, have never had a flea treatment - luckily we dont have fleas here, and will be titer tested and vaccinated when deemed necessary. They had their initial vacs, the Kelpie has had a couple of extra as shes a few years older than the Ridgy, but I cant see the point in continuing. Im even going to research whether heartworm vacs are necessary in our area!

I meant to ad also that late last year my ridgy was suffering from "allergic rhinitis" or hayfever. My vet put her on a course of Chinese Herbs. They worked a treat I am glad to say. She also had a curse of different herbs earlier in the year for her tummy upsets, vomiting and diarrhoea. These worked well too. Although she still gets itchy if she eats the wrong things, she hasnt had the runs for quite sometime now, and I cant remember the last time she threw up!

Rat

Edited March 24, 2010 by Lab_Rat

[Erny]

Keep in mind that allergies are actually due to an overactive immune system, so is it really a 'weakened' immune system?

You're right - I forgot about that concept. But it is in line with the "too clean" concept I raised in my post above. Immune system has nothing to do, so turns on to things that it ordinarily doesn't or shouldn't be turning against.

Sure. But at the end of the day, IMO, I think the dog still has to be genetically predisposed to react that way to those things, whatever they are.

Yes - but that's part of my point. IE How come more and more dogs are becoming genetically predisposed to allergies? This is where I think that what we feed our breeding stock; what we apply (chemicals); constant barrage of vaccinations; etc. etc. has an affect on generation after generation after generation, weakening (read : causing dysfunction) the immune system as each evolves.

Not proven of course - just my thoughts.

[Erny]

I was wondering how your boy was going Erny! My girl has similar problems to Mandela, and Im always searching for something to help her digestive system or immune system. I am trying Digestive enzymes at the moment - too early to tell yet. But yesterday I found an ad for Spirulina, and more interestingly Chlorella which Im itching to try not only for Zola but for myself too. Google it and see what you think. Rather than jump in and add it to her increasing number of things to try though, Im going to finish the bottle of enzymes and see what affect they have, may even get her blood tested afterwards to see if things have changed.

I tried the Spirulina - it didn't do a great deal, if anything, for my boy. My boy's health is still a work in progress. Moved from symptomatic hives to interdigital cysts. Controlling those at the moment. I could write pages on what I've done and how things have faired - nothing is conclusive ...... yet. I'm happy to talk to you by telephone if you want to chat about what I've done and what results (which are not always clear) I've achieved for each. If you want to do this, PM me and I'll give you my contact numbers.

[Lab_Rat]

Keep in mind that allergies are actually due to an overactive immune system, so is it really a 'weakened' immune system?

You're right - I forgot about that concept. But it is in line with the "too clean" concept I raised in my post above. Immune system has nothing to do, so turns on to things that it ordinarily doesn't or shouldn't be turning against.

Sure. But at the end of the day, IMO, I think the dog still has to be genetically predisposed to react that way to those things, whatever they are.

Yes - but that's part of my point. IE How come more and more dogs are becoming genetically predisposed to allergies? This is where I think that what we feed our breeding stock; what we apply (chemicals); constant barrage of vaccinations; etc. etc. has an affect on generation after generation after generation, weakening (read : causing dysfunction) the immune system as each evolves.

Not proven of course - just my thoughts.

I would have to agree with this 100%! I dont have any scientific evidence just observations of my dogs, their histories and lives....

Rat

[Lab_Rat]

I was wondering how your boy was going Erny! My girl has similar problems to Mandela, and Im always searching for something to help her digestive system or immune system. I am trying Digestive enzymes at the moment - too early to tell yet. But yesterday I found an ad for Spirulina, and more interestingly Chlorella which Im itching to try not only for Zola but for myself too. Google it and see what you think. Rather than jump in and add it to her increasing number of things to try though, Im going to finish the bottle of enzymes and see what affect they have, may even get her blood tested afterwards to see if things have changed.

I tried the Spirulina - it didn't do a great deal, if anything, for my boy. My boy's health is still a work in progress. Moved from symptomatic hives to interdigital cysts. Controlling those at the moment. I could write pages on what I've done and how things have faired - nothing is conclusive ...... yet. I'm happy to talk to you by telephone if you want to chat about what I've done and what results (which are not always clear) I've achieved for each. If you want to do this, PM me and I'll give you my contact numbers.

;) I will when you empty your inbox.................

[AmandaJ]

I was wondering how your boy was going Erny! My girl has similar problems to Mandela, and Im always searching for something to help her digestive system or immune system. I am trying Digestive enzymes at the moment - too early to tell yet. But yesterday I found an ad for Spirulina, and more interestingly Chlorella which Im itching to try not only for Zola but for myself too. Google it and see what you think. Rather than jump in and add it to her increasing number of things to try though, Im going to finish the bottle of enzymes and see what affect they have, may even get her blood tested afterwards to see if things have changed.

I tried the Spirulina - it didn't do a great deal, if anything, for my boy. My boy's health is still a work in progress. Moved from symptomatic hives to interdigital cysts. Controlling those at the moment. I could write pages on what I've done and how things have faired - nothing is conclusive ...... yet. I'm happy to talk to you by telephone if you want to chat about what I've done and what results (which are not always clear) I've achieved for each. If you want to do this, PM me and I'll give you my contact numbers.

Spirulina contains natural tryptophan which the body converts into seratonin. Tryptohphan is being trialled with antidepressants in order to reduce the dependance on the antidepressants. I've not heard of it (Spirulina) being used for allergies unless the scratching is symptomatic of an anxiety issue. But if you do use Spriulina for anything you need to increase Vitamin C in the diet as it strips the body of Vitamin C.