Obedience Instructors Going Too Far!

[JulesP]

Actually there are usually 3 sides to a story. Each persons story and then the truth. lol.

tazmadman I think some of us would be interested to hear your or the instructors side.

[poodlefan]

Actually there are usually 3 sides to a story. Each persons story and then the truth. lol.

tazmadman I think some of us would be interested to hear your or the instructors side.

Truth usually lies somewhere in the middle of the other two.

[ness]

I just want to say as far as Miss Squish's posts there is nothing in any of her post that actually state which club she attends so I actually find it strange that a new person should jump to defend something which was in part an observation of a situation at training but there was no mention of who or what club.

[lappiemum]

Actually there are usually 3 sides to a story. Each persons story and then the truth. lol.

tazmadman I think some of us would be interested to hear your or the instructors side.

But please use punctuation. It does help to get your message across and lessens the chance of us skimming over it!

[megan_]

i think i have heard enough of this rubbish ! the person starting the thread has had problems with instructors at that club and has done for a while the club has dedicated many hours of one on one help for her and has never pushed her away as for being clicky what rubbish we welcome anyone into that club and if she regularly sits on the side lines not joining in conversations we cant grab her hand and help you have to help yourself i have been a active member at that club for many years and we very rarely get complaints (every club will have some unhappy members for one reason or another)

all the instructors that know her are reading this but have no intension of getting into a childish argument over training methods but are very disappointed that she has said this

the question is not of training methods and yes we train to a very high standard and our instructors do a very good job but of CRULETY as the allegation has been made im not interested in what everyone here thinks the best way to train a dog is im concerned that in the post she made above is a LIE and by here own admission in pms to another member she sated it may not have exactly happed as was posted by her

i can tell you now the instructor concerned is a very highly regarded senior instructor in our club and respected in the obedience community in the state and who would NEVER do that and if he caught someone doing it would be asked to leave

he is furious and is considering taking this further to clear his name as for being clicky and banding together of course we will band together when a lie has been told

people should only comment about the situation if they were there on the night and yes i was and i will be speaking to the class to get statutory declarations of what happened on the night

Everyone here can sit at there keyboard and type what they want i will not respond to dumb questions

but you must realise when a statement like that is made in a public forum and it is proven to be untrue and the post writer has named the club in private mails to people canning us and i am informed the post was here by another club that is horrified that it was put on here we will not sit back and let it happen

this will be taken up at the next committee meeting i can assure you and from what i here legal action may result unless a apology for that post is not forth coming we are not interested in the first post as it doesn’t concern us

@Jacks Buddy i dont think that poster is getting snippy and rude it doesnt matter how long you have been here posts here dont give you priority but they have a right to state when a lie has been told

and when as i said before if you wernt there you dont know the facts so you dont have a right to comment

as for people complaing about msfayes attitude remember she was in that class and saw it all you lot were not

and if i was her i would be very angy she has a right to dfent what happened in that class when there are lies told

Wow. I would hate to be part of a club that personally attacks a member on a public forum when the criticise the club. REgardless of the truth of Miss Squish's claims, you are getting very personal. Please name the club so we all know who to steer clear of. You could have come here, introduced yourself (you've just joined after all) and given another prespective, a run down of facts.

Re: taking action because of the "lie", Miss Squish never mentioned that club name, no one has been defamed. Your posts, together with Ms Faye, are the ones that have really put the club's name at risk. As for statutory declarations, do you honestly think that people will be 100% open with you when the read the attacks launched on someone for giving a different perspective?

And PM's are Private Messages, they aren't public. She can say whatever she wants in them. No need to bring them up here.

[megan_]

I just want to say as far as Miss Squish's posts there is nothing in any of her post that actually state which club she attends so I actually find it strange that a new person should jump to defend something which was in part an observation of a situation at training but there was no mention of who or what club.

yes - especially since "nothing" occurred. If nothing occurred, how on earth could people realise it is their club!

[Jetty]

Some of these stories are terrible

They have put me off going to an obedience club I must admit. I have always had a positive experience in the clubs I have attended for obedience. I can't beleive the outrageous things that some trainers are doing. I would definately not let anyone do those things to my dog!

Jet is dog agressive, he is getting better and he would not be perfect regarding focus and some new commands straight away. I would think that trainers would understand that some dogs are like this and take longer to stay focused etc.

[Cosmolo]

I can only hope this doesn't put people off taking their dogs to training- unprofessional conduct seems to not only relate to the actual training of dogs.

We have had 2 complaints in the time we have been running and both were resolved to the satisfaction of all parties involved. In our case the complaints related to the wrong type of training being attempted (group instead of private for instance) and everyone was happy once this was resolved. There are ways to resolve complaints- even when you believe you have done nothing wrong- that ensure you remain professional, approachable and courteous.

[Jetty]

by put off I mean clubs that I am not reccommended too by others.

[tazmadman]

you dont get it there was no mistreating of a dog in class how many times do you need to be told it was a lie which she herself posted what she said was not exactly true

no there is no need for me to explain as there has been nothing wrong done end of story

@@huski yes i am refering to you you were not there you heard it second hand and you posted rubbish to deliberatly fuel the fire and it does not allow the truth to come out

im over it this has gone to the dogs

you lot obviosly dont read the posts properly there was no mistreating of a dog in class for gods sake there was 20 people in that class and the only one who has said anything is the original poster who then stated it was not that bad ??????

and everyone here has blown it out of proportion

it is finished here as far as i am concerned you all can go make this a 50 page sped all going on about something you didnt witness if the person complaining has a problem she can take it up with the club

goodby

Edited March 16, 2010 by tazmadman

[tazmadman]

I can only hope this doesn't put people off taking their dogs to training- unprofessional conduct seems to not only relate to the actual training of dogs.

We have had 2 complaints in the time we have been running and both were resolved to the satisfaction of all parties involved. In our case the complaints related to the wrong type of training being attempted (group instead of private for instance) and everyone was happy once this was resolved. There are ways to resolve complaints- even when you believe you have done nothing wrong- that ensure you remain professional, approachable and courteous.

i will agree with you on that point i think you would agree this should have been taken to the club or whatever orginisation they attend not aired in a public forum

people who sit there and say oh you joined just to post here for sure i did even if she didnt name a club she has by pms to people and we do have a right of reply

but as i have said before if you were not there you shouldnt comment

as for her first post i have no knowledge of the clubs she talks of or how long ago it was but thats nothing to do with me

[tazmadman]

i think i have heard enough of this rubbish ! the person starting the thread has had problems with instructors at that club and has done for a while the club has dedicated many hours of one on one help for her and has never pushed her away as for being clicky what rubbish we welcome anyone into that club and if she regularly sits on the side lines not joining in conversations we cant grab her hand and help you have to help yourself i have been a active member at that club for many years and we very rarely get complaints (every club will have some unhappy members for one reason or another)

all the instructors that know her are reading this but have no intension of getting into a childish argument over training methods but are very disappointed that she has said this

the question is not of training methods and yes we train to a very high standard and our instructors do a very good job but of CRULETY as the allegation has been made im not interested in what everyone here thinks the best way to train a dog is im concerned that in the post she made above is a LIE and by here own admission in pms to another member she sated it may not have exactly happed as was posted by her

i can tell you now the instructor concerned is a very highly regarded senior instructor in our club and respected in the obedience community in the state and who would NEVER do that and if he caught someone doing it would be asked to leave

he is furious and is considering taking this further to clear his name as for being clicky and banding together of course we will band together when a lie has been told

people should only comment about the situation if they were there on the night and yes i was and i will be speaking to the class to get statutory declarations of what happened on the night

Everyone here can sit at there keyboard and type what they want i will not respond to dumb questions

but you must realise when a statement like that is made in a public forum and it is proven to be untrue and the post writer has named the club in private mails to people canning us and i am informed the post was here by another club that is horrified that it was put on here we will not sit back and let it happen

this will be taken up at the next committee meeting i can assure you and from what i here legal action may result unless a apology for that post is not forth coming we are not interested in the first post as it doesn’t concern us

@Jacks Buddy i dont think that poster is getting snippy and rude it doesnt matter how long you have been here posts here dont give you priority but they have a right to state when a lie has been told

and when as i said before if you wernt there you dont know the facts so you dont have a right to comment

as for people complaing about msfayes attitude remember she was in that class and saw it all you lot were not

and if i was her i would be very angy she has a right to dfent what happened in that class when there are lies told

Wow. I would hate to be part of a club that personally attacks a member on a public forum when the criticise the club. REgardless of the truth of Miss Squish's claims, you are getting very personal. Please name the club so we all know who to steer clear of. You could have come here, introduced yourself (you've just joined after all) and given another prespective, a run down of facts.

Re: taking action because of the "lie", Miss Squish never mentioned that club name, no one has been defamed. Your posts, together with Ms Faye, are the ones that have really put the club's name at risk. As for statutory declarations, do you honestly think that people will be 100% open with you when the read the attacks launched on someone for giving a different perspective?

And PM's are Private Messages, they aren't public. She can say whatever she wants in them. No need to bring them up here.

WTF this is stupid if a pm will show the truth i will post it how ridiculas

i have already contacted many in the class and no one saw anything wrong and are happy to stand by there word

we have not attacked her but have a right to defend what is not true think about what you say before posting

again if you wernt there how can you have a opinion as you dont know

Edited March 16, 2010 by tazmadman

[Erny]

Ive seen very little discussion regarding training methods.

With the 'method' for the "food refusal" component of training, where the instructor slaps the dog on the face/muzzle if it reaches for the food that is offered, how do you ensure that the dog is pairing that punishment with the fact that it reached for the food, and not pairing it with the fact that a 'stranger' approached it?

Ms Faye - is this not a 'method' used at the Club in question?

If it is, I'm still puzzled at the reasoning behind the creation of the 'method'. Do you agree with it?

Still no response to the above by either Ms Faye or Tazmadman?

By accusing the OP of being a liar, are you saying that the above description of training for food refusal did not and does not happen?

Are you saying that the GSD who failed to recall, who was known to fail its recalls but still permitted off lead (apparently - feel free to correct this point as well), was not reprimanded in any way after its return? Are you saying the OP lied about that?

Edited March 16, 2010 by Erny

[tazmadman]

Ive seen very little discussion regarding training methods.

With the 'method' for the "food refusal" component of training, where the instructor slaps the dog on the face/muzzle if it reaches for the food that is offered, how do you ensure that the dog is pairing that punishment with the fact that it reached for the food, and not pairing it with the fact that a 'stranger' approached it?

Ms Faye - is this not a 'method' used at the Club in question?

If it is, I'm still puzzled at the reasoning behind the creation of the 'method'. Do you agree with it?

Still no response to the above by either Ms Faye or Tazmadman?

By accusing the OP of being a liar, are you saying that the above description of training for food refusal did not and does not happen?

Are you saying that the GSD who failed to recall, who was known to fail its recalls but still permitted off lead (apparently - feel free to correct this point as well), was not reprimanded in any way after its return? Are you saying the OP lied about that?

READ THE POST that did not happen at our club dont you read things

this is stupid and i refuse to get into it take it up with the club that it happened at this is exactly what i mean you dont read whats posted the problem is people forget the previos posts post 1 had nothing to do with us the post i am annoyed it is post 6 dont you read

Edited March 16, 2010 by tazmadman

[Erny]

READ THE POST that did not happen at our club dont you read things

All I've read is yourself and Ms Faye naming the OP as a liar. I've not read anywhere as to whether that was specific only to one or two points of what she has written or whether you were accusing her of all things she wrote as being a lie.

You are calling the OP a "liar" in public. That would want to be true (and you've further clarified the extent of your accusation of "liar" in your previous post) as otherwise the OP may have rights against you for defamation if things aren't handled carefully.

this is stupid and i refuse to get into it take it up with the club that it happened at this is exactly what i mean you dont read whats posted

Whether you/your club did or didn't conduct itself in the manner described by the OP, the mannerism yourself and Ms Faye have conducted yourselves here being far from professional is enough to taint your perhaps preferred impression.

[roses2905]

Wow, the posts on here that have made me want to know what club it is so I NEVER go there, are NOT the ones made by Miss Squish. The unprofessional attitude and pure attacks from apparent members / trainers is just terrible.

[tazmadman]

what about the attacks on the club ???????? does that not matter

[Staranais]

Ive seen very little discussion regarding training methods.

With the 'method' for the "food refusal" component of training, where the instructor slaps the dog on the face/muzzle if it reaches for the food that is offered, how do you ensure that the dog is pairing that punishment with the fact that it reached for the food, and not pairing it with the fact that a 'stranger' approached it?

Ms Faye - is this not a 'method' used at the Club in question?

If it is, I'm still puzzled at the reasoning behind the creation of the 'method'. Do you agree with it?

Still no response to the above by either Ms Faye or Tazmadman?

By accusing the OP of being a liar, are you saying that the above description of training for food refusal did not and does not happen?

Are you saying that the GSD who failed to recall, who was known to fail its recalls but still permitted off lead (apparently - feel free to correct this point as well), was not reprimanded in any way after its return? Are you saying the OP lied about that?

It's kind of hard to make out what's going on, since the OP has been very professional and not mentioned the name of the club she attends on the forum.

But as far as I can make out, the OP has said that the GSD was manhandled for running away at the club Tazmadman attends, and the food refusal happened at another club entirely. So Tazmadman probably doesn't have anything to do with the food refusal thing.

I think that's what's going on, anyway. :D

[roses2905]

what about the attacks on the club ???????? does that not matter

No, not so much, as you and the other person seem to be attacking Miss Squish personally, whilst she has been very clear in not naming the club.

[Seita]

what about the attacks on the club ???????? does that not matter

Again, as stated by many others, the club was not named on a public forum therefore it hasn't been attacked. What is said in PMs is personal, people are entitled to their opinions and free-speech so you cannot under any circumstances claim that what was said there could be seen as attacking the club... especially seeing as you did not recieve any of these PMs.

You and Ms Faye, on the other hand, have both repeatedly called the OP "a liar" which could be taken as a personal attack on them.

Also, not once have either you or Ms Faye mentioned/told what you witnessed that night, which means neither of you actually witnessed it or are avoiding telling for some reason unknown to us. Denying that the incident happened does not equate to your side of the story. We have the OPs view on what happened but at this stage we have no view from either you or Ms Faye on what actually happened, only that both of you seem to be denying it like there's no tomorrow.

These are basic facts, regardless of what did or didn't happen that night and what was or wasn't witnessed, your's and Ms Fayes replies certainly leave me questioning the truth in your arguments.

And lastly, please use punctuation as your posts are incredibly difficult to follow and you seem to be getting annoyed that people aren't understanding you, perhaps posters will understand better if your posts are a bit clearer to read?