Obedience Instructors Going Too Far!

[ness]

There are 3 people on this planet that have been allowed to take Ness and demo/train something (short of a whole bunch of kids who had fun with her at a pet expo running around an agility course ). There are probably only a few more who I would trust to hand her over to train/handle. No prizes for guessing who they are .

I handed her over to an instructor as a 12 month old and never again after it took years for me to undo the damage that was done inside 30 seconds .

Edited March 11, 2010 by ness

[RubyStar]

I handed her over to an instructor as a 12 month old and never again after it took years for me to undo the damage that was done inside 30 seconds .

What happened?

[pie]

In my case the trainer was demonstrating to the class how to lure a puppy to sit in front, so there wasn't really any problem or way it could go wrong,

For things like dumbells etc, I'm with you - I only want to teach that with a certain method and I wouldn't let a trainer try a different method on the dog (unless it was a person I trusted whose methods I agreed with)

[Cosmolo]

I don't know about anyone else, but we always explain what we're going to do and then ask if we can use XYZ dog for such an example. That way no one is surprised when we demo the exercise a certain way. To be honest though- there are times when we then have to go around to other clients and explain a different way they should do it with their particular dog. This is where i think large classes make things tough- because you can't do that as easily or at all if there are 15- 20 dogs and one instructor.

[ness]

An instructor thought he would solve my forging problem in heelwork - lets just say I knew no better at the time and I lived to regret that very day.

[Kavik]

I demonstrated with a dog on the weekend - recall on long lead. The owner was having problems getting the dog's attention and really had no idea how to do it, so I showed him with his dog. I do hope that not everyone is put off letting an instructor help with their dog.

I have had one bad experience with an instructor taking my dog. A very well known obedience instructor and competitor took Zoe (who is dog aggro) and said that she wouldn't be dog aggro with him - and proceeded to drag her away from me and towards another dog. She didn't want to go with him and was actively pulling to get back to me. She wasn't aggro with the other dog purely because she was so focussed on trying to get back to me.

ETA: This was many years ago - the instructor has since passed away.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Kavik

[Nekhbet]

There is a difference between corrections and abuse. That person does not train dogs, he abuses them.

As for Keohler, that is an overly liberal interpretation of his works. If someone did that to my dog now they would be in hospital, probably from me AND my dog.

I have had my bitch punched in the head once. First private lesson, she would not drop on first command so the trainer punched her in the top of the head and yelled 'DROP'... apparently that is how you assert your leadership. At 6 years old she still has an element of mistrust dropping around strange people. Mmmm professional. mmhmm.

I teach at a club now, I saw an owner smack her dog on the face for snapping at another. I do not accept that and will not. She was politely told if her dog was fearful, had another dog too close whilst on lead remove it do not smack it. I will give corrrection when required, but random beatings are not on.

[huski]

I have no problem letting trainers I trust handle my dogs. No trainer should take your dog without making you comfortable with what they will do first. A trainer should explain their methods to you before taking your dog. I would never, ever hand my dog over to someone who I didn't know or wasn't comfortable with.

[Seita]

And the tragic thing is that this happens all over the place and the poor public who come along to train their dogs don't know any better.

I've watched an instructor check a young dog (under 12 months old) who's body language was clearly showing very intense fear of the person. I think even a training novice can see a dog cower and act fearful.

I've also seen other instructors work with a fear agressive dog, by walking it towards other dogs and correcting the daylights out of it.

I told a class member off the other night for correcting his puppy when it jumped at another puppy for a game.

And I've trained at a club where the method of choice was check and drag... needless to say the dog I trained there never got anywhere in the world of obedience competition.

I am a member and instructor at a club now that 'favors' the older style of training... why? Because there are no positive clubs here and the only way for clubs to change are for experienced trainers, competitors and owners like us to get involved and try to create a culture shift in each individual club.

[~*Shell*~]

I have no problem letting trainers I trust handle my dogs. No trainer should take your dog without making you comfortable with what they will do first. A trainer should explain their methods to you before taking your dog. I would never, ever hand my dog over to someone who I didn't know or wasn't comfortable with.

Ditto. There are 3 people who have worked my dog - me, terranik and one of the other instructors at my club (i'm a trainee instructor). I trust Nik and the other instructor and they know how I train. I wouldn't hand him over to someone I didn't trust.

I haven't seen anyone who instructs at my club ever doing anything to hurt a dog but we're a purely positive club. That being said, there was a guy in one of the highest classes who would routinely hit his dog for barking and for aggressing at another dog When all the dog sees is aggression from the handler, what should the dog be expected to react with? I haven't seen him there in a long time though.

I do however see a lot of trainers try to take on problems that should be immediately referred to a behaviourist - usually they just make the problem worse. Luckily I know a fantastic behaviourist!

[Miss Squish]

One of the instructors that does this is deputy President others are on the committee, very clicky group & I know of at least one instructor at the club that is a DOL member I will report this to the president as I believe she wouldnt ever handle a dog like this.

My attempt to find a new club was when the instructor slapped Ruger,it was the first & only time we went there, so I went back to the original club as it doesnt happen all the time & I figured they all might be like this.

Also seems to be only big dogs they do this to, never medium or small ones, as Ive trained Asia for years & havent had anything like this happen with her. They do insist I check her alot though but Ive made it clear to them we will not train like that as Asia will just plant her feet & refuse to move. Their advice on that was just to give up obedience altogether

I do believe its the club holding us back as Asia easily got her CCD title & I know she could go further without the boring repetitive training & in the right club.

I will definately be going to another club to have a look as there are a few other clubs fairly local to me

[Miss Squish]

Its sad to hear others have also witnessed instructors do this kind of thing or have had it happen to their dog.

[Cosmolo]

Its just so sad As a trainer there is nothing i like more than having dogs arrive at class that are thrilled to be there and some of them (where's smoothie girl.. ) thrilled to see me. I don't think these 'instructors' would ever get to see that.

And this is the kind of thing that results in people hating 'corrections'- whats been described here is just abuse, not a correction..

[OSoSwift]

OMG - Horrified!

If someone do that to mine they would cop a mouthfull and possibly get wacked themselves. I never hand my dogs lead to anyone. There are a couple I would, but they are not down here.

Report the scum!

[Nekhbet]

methinks I need to take a trip to adelaide with my dogue and malinois

[Kelpie-i]

Very sad and extremely scary but not surprising. I sometimes hear of these stories and cannot believe such 'instructors' are still walk this earth in this day and age of dog training.

People please remember that not all instructors are like that and that there are some excellent instructors out there who can perform miracles with your dogs without psychological/physical harm.

[luvsdogs]

It's abusive, pure & simple. I would report the incidents that you witnessed to the chief instructor or president. If they do nothing about it or tell you it's nothing to worry about I would report them to the Canine body for SA & the RSPCA. They have to be accountable to someone.

Then never go to that club again & if you're ever asked to recommend a club to anyone, you sure know where NOT to recommend.

[Longcoat]

It sounds like William Koehler is back from the dead. I would be putting in complaints with the clubs involved.

Apart from Koehler's behavioral correction processes which were blatently stupid, I have always thought his leash training methods were not too bad when following his system from the beginning. I have seen the result of many dogs trained in Koehler methods with magical off leash obedience

[Jeff Jones]

It sounds like William Koehler is back from the dead. I would be putting in complaints with the clubs involved.

Apart from Koehler's behavioral correction processes which were blatently stupid, I have always thought his leash training methods were not too bad when following his system from the beginning. I have seen the result of many dogs trained in Koehler methods with magical off leash obedience

Reliability off lead should always be the most significant criterion when evaluating and comparing training methods

Straight out of Koehlers book Longcoat

[Staranais]

There are 3 people on this planet that have been allowed to take Ness and demo/train something (short of a whole bunch of kids who had fun with her at a pet expo running around an agility course ). There are probably only a few more who I would trust to hand her over to train/handle. No prizes for guessing who they are .

Me too - there are very, very few people I allow to handle my dog, let alone train her.

Quite apart from the fact that I don't particularly like my dog accepting food or toys from strangers, I simply don't expect her to listen to or obey strangers. Why should she listen to someone she doesn't know? And I certainly wouldn't expect her to accept being disciplined or corrected by a stranger!

Now, getting cuddles from strangers, she's pretty good at that.