Obedience Instructors Going Too Far!

[huski]

For me it's not about positive vs punishment, because no one who understands how to use punishment/corrections would use them in such a fashion that it becomes abuse.

I have no problem with corrections etc but the examples in this thread are examples of abuse not examples of proper training methods.

Raineth that story makes me really sad

Edited March 10, 2010 by huski

[SeeGee]

And now I'm removing the thought of joining a club - ever.

I couldnt contain my temper if someone touched Charlie inappropriatly. I have screamed blue murder at my sister before for grabbing him agressivley by the scruff - let alone a stranger...!

These stories are devastating. These people are meant to be professionals.

[Kody's_Mum]

These posts make me really sad.

Obedience classes should be fun and rewarding for both you and your dog. Not something which is dreaded.

My boy loves going to class. He enjoys working and socialising with the other dogs so much that he gets up very early on Sundays all excited, just waiting to for the time to go to class.

I understand that everyone has their own methods and beliefs when it comes to training, however these methods which are described are abusive.

If someone ever belted my dog, I doubt he would react kindly, and I know I would have to be restrained!

I would be leaving this club and writing a formal letter to the president of the club outlining my reasons and disgust.

So sad to think of the damage that these actions can cause for these poor dogs.

[Gogee]

What about CBS?

No smacking.

No yelling.

No chains.

No corrections.

Yep, they are fantastic - purely positive, and great with the dogs (I took both mine there).

[gsdog2]

It sounds like William Koehler is back from the dead. I would be putting in complaints with the clubs involved.

That was my first thought too

[poodlefan]

And now I'm removing the thought of joining a club - ever.

I couldnt contain my temper if someone touched Charlie inappropriatly. I have screamed blue murder at my sister before for grabbing him agressivley by the scruff - let alone a stranger...!

These stories are devastating. These people are meant to be professionals.

Most clubs are NOT like this. And few of them are run by professionals.

I've heard some SA clubs use training methods from the dark ages. That's not the case for a lot of clubs.

Edited March 10, 2010 by poodlefan

[raineth]

The 'instructor' that I mentioned in my post above, is not part of any club or organisation and has no qualifications (that I know of).

I have been wondering if I should be doing something about what I saw.

I don't want to take the thread off track - what would people do, if they saw what I saw?

I really don't want to end up in a confrontation, and I don't want to end up sued.

I have been considering writing a spiel about positive training methods (maybe with a links to a few websites) and handing them out to people attending as they are leaving class?

It seemed to me that a lot of these people were very new to training/dog ownership and maybe it might help fro them to know there is an alternative way to train a dog? thoughts people?

[Cosmolo]

Just wanted to add- these people are NOT professional dog trainers. Instructors who do these things should not be grouped with professional trainers.

Not every dog club is like this either- even at a couple of clubs where i didn't agree with certain things, i would never have seen such incidents as have been described here.

To everyone who has experienced such an event- did you report it? Put in a formal complaint?

[The Spotted Devil]

And now I'm removing the thought of joining a club - ever.

I couldnt contain my temper if someone touched Charlie inappropriatly. I have screamed blue murder at my sister before for grabbing him agressivley by the scruff - let alone a stranger...!

These stories are devastating. These people are meant to be professionals.

Remember, that how your dog is trained IS under your control

Get recommendations from DOLers in your area and then turn up during a couple of training sessions and simply observe what goes on. Look for the dogs/owners that are struggling and see how the instructor deals with them. If you don't feel comfortable, walk away - you are under no obligation to train with a club even if you have paid your fees Do your best by your dog.

[whitka]

This has happened to my dog There is an instructor at the club who really doesnt like me ( because I trained with someone she didnt like ). One day after she had finised scarying a young border collie ( checking it so hard that it got lifted of the ground) I let my dog have a little run around, there was no one else around so it was ok. Toby was just minding his own bussiness when she came up to him and whacked him on the head I was so shocked I didnt say anything but my dad saw it and gave her an earfull I didnt see her at the club for a while. And agian at a trail she tried to upset my dog with hers but anonter trailer saw what she was doing and reported it.

[sas]

WTF is wrong with some instructors at obedience clubs......

Just because a dog does a runner during recalls does not mean its ok for the instructor to lift the dog up by the scruff of the neck sometimes off the ground while shaking it & screaming NO in its face I have seen this done quite a few times now.

I have also attended another club where the instructor deceided to do food refusal, a new exercise for us. While my dog was sitting nicely on my left hand side the instructor waved food around in front of his face & as my dog stretched his neck out to sniff the food he copped a huge slap in the face which was heard by the whole class.

The instructor then laughed, then said he shouldnt have done that to a Rotty.

Years ago I also had another instructor "check" my 55kg Rotty so hard that he was off the ground. His check chain broke then some how rejoined so it was so tight my dog was gasping for breath. No one could get the chain off so someone had to race home to get bolt cutters while my boy could have died.

Ruger could have been a great obedience dog but due to some instructors he was too nervous to let a judge approach him for stand for exam & would shy away every time

I have been a member of obedience clubs for 19 years & cant believe this happens & not just at the one club No one but me seems to think this is wrong and are shocked to see it. Who is there to report it to when the clubs are so clicky??

To me it's simple, never let another person treat your dog in a way you're not comfortable with and if they do tell them so and report them.

If you think the club is clicky and someone has asaulted your dog then report them to the RSPCA/

[Erny]

I have been considering writing a spiel about positive training methods (maybe with a links to a few websites) and handing them out to people attending as they are leaving class?

What you would be doing would only then be a matter of highlighting training methods, not highlighting the unprofessionalism of those who exhibited these responses (I can't call them "training methods") to the dogs.

I agree with Cosmolo - these people are not professionals and from what I have read, have no qualifications. It is not that they use aversives that is the problem, it is that from what has been said here, their application of aversives is not appropriate nor beneficial to training and is bordering (if not actual) abuse. So don't, by implication, knock training methods - that says nothing of the instructors in question and has the ability to tarr other (good) instructors with the same brush you are using to draw attention to these few.

I agree with the comments of some others - report them if they are being as abusive and contra-indicated to dog training as they sound.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Erny

[luvsablue]

I feel sick after reading about these ghastly people and the way they maltreat other people's dogs.

At our club, we instructors are strongly discouraged from handling the members' dogs, the reason being that we are there to

teach the handlers, who then work with their own dogs.

Hitting dogs is not permitted, by anybody, and positive, reward based training is taught, and if necessary correction methods are taught, although

I encourage the handlers to use flat collars and food (luring and rewarding), especially for the early stage of heelwork.

Search around for a different club, or start your own group,

Don't permit anyone to handle your dog unless you know the person really well

luvsablue & beckie the bluey

(who hates choke chains and military marching), but has got all her obedience titles, including UDX.

[Cosmolo]

I think its really sad that things like this may result in owners being unwillling to allow an instructor to handle their dog- i use dogs to help and demonstrate things to owners regularly- mainly to show people what their dogs are capable of and how to do it- its often easier to learn when watching than doing to start with.

Sounds like some of these incidents were when owners still had hold of the dogs anyway. :D

[Diva]

I think any instructor who did any of those things at my club wouldn't be on the instructors list for long.

Damn right they wouldn't. They'd be lynched.

[pie]

I've let my instructor handle Trixie before, our club is mainly positive anyway and I had seen her handle other peoples dogs before, it's a beginner / puppy class so it all mainly luring and rewarding anyway.

If I had a bad feeling about an instructor or didn't like their methods I wouldn't let them handle my dog.

People - don't be put off obedience classes because of these stories, there are good ones out there, just check them out first and do some research.

Speak up if you don't like what someone is doing to your dog - as others have said it is your job to protect them.

[poodlefan]

I think any instructor who did any of those things at my club wouldn't be on the instructors list for long.

Damn right they wouldn't. They'd be lynched.

I think a good burning on a pyre would be more bonding for the instructor body.

But it simply wouldn't be tolerated. Nor are handlers who do such things to their own dogs allowed to get away with it.

[WreckitWhippet]

Holy

[W Sibs]

A person who hits my dog will end up in hospital!

Charlie doesn't listen to any of the instructors in my club. He likes them and all but he won't listen to any one of them. I have no idea why, would you guys have an idea why he won't? (he has done this since puppy school and when my friend was practising some dog training on him, he gave her the same look and refuse to do anything, but just watch me)

He gives them the 'You're not my mummy' look, and then will remain focus totally on me. He doesn't even listen to them... but none of the instructors yank the leash or yell at him. They simply just laugh, make a comment about being Mama's boy and then return him to me.

[RubyStar]

at the OP! Noone hurts my dog!

I've let my instructor handle Trixie before, our club is mainly positive anyway and I had seen her handle other peoples dogs before, it's a beginner / puppy class so it all mainly luring and rewarding anyway.

If I had a bad feeling about an instructor or didn't like their methods I wouldn't let them handle my dog.

People - don't be put off obedience classes because of these stories, there are good ones out there, just check them out first and do some research.

Speak up if you don't like what someone is doing to your dog - as others have said it is your job to protect them.

If I know the trainer is not only good but trains the way I do (or want to), then I have no problem them handling my dog or demonstrating something. But if their methods differ, even if they're not being abusive, I will and have declined to have someone show me how to do something. For example, teaching the retrieve, an instructor went to demonstrate forcing my dog to hold the item by shutting and holding her mouth closed around the item. Fine, I understand that is a valid training method for some and not abusive, but I know my dog better than anyone and that is not the method I chose to teach a retrieve because she would have shut down and not touch anything. Everyone has different methods, we just have to pick and choose the best ones for us and our dogs.